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In reply to the discussion: The Snowden Saga has revealed something else [View all]DirkGently
(12,151 posts)29. We've given other nations the ammunition to call us a rogue state.
Another thing that's supposed to identify the small and large "d" democratically minded is that we put principle over personality, what we do over who we are.
And we've been acting like a rogue state. Iraq, waterboarding, indefinite detention, and now illicit global surveillance.
We've never been a perfect country. But we used to at least have a good faith claim to occupying some kind of moral high ground. Bush destroyed a lot of it. Obama seemed to be putting some of it back.
But not on this stuff. Not on the new, red-hot, big-dollar world of massive electronic surveillance. And not on government secrecy. No one has abused the Espionage Act to punish whistleblowers this way. What Bush began in this arena has been expanded and worsened.
The fact that American "dissidents" are now fleeing to foreign countries is not a reflection on them, so much as it is on US.
Question is, what are we going to do about it? Become the old Soviet Union, demanding our "defectors" be returned to us in chains, to be stripped and held in some secret dungeon?
We claim to be better than that. But apparently when it comes down do it, we have plenty who are too scared, too stupid, or too otherwise motivated to stand up to it.
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It'll be a real utopia, all right...one where, if you don't speak Chinese, you ain't shit!
MADem
Jun 2013
#109
This land was colonized, period. Each of the examples I gave you were colonialized by the US
Melinda
Jun 2013
#86
Now that's a huge pile of stupid. All Empires fail because they go bankrupt paying for expansions.
KittyWampus
Jun 2013
#30
+1! And all those countries have changed their encryption keys and rerouted communications
Catherina
Jun 2013
#7
As I said in another thread, a sclerotic military/industrial empire, unable to truly respond
villager
Jun 2013
#15
Aside from the North Sea oil & financial services boom, the last Century has been hell for the Brits
FarCenter
Jun 2013
#32
They have done better from a social point of view. They have national health care
Cleita
Jun 2013
#38
The reason that we were so prosperous between 1945 and 1975 was we could exploit everyone else
FarCenter
Jun 2013
#47
Whatever you want to call it. It was pretty middle class to all other countries looking in on us
Cleita
Jun 2013
#54
I don't think that will happen. The poor states in this country depend on the more
Cleita
Jun 2013
#40
1940 was 2 years into WW II? WW II was just the tail end of the 1914-1949 global war.
FarCenter
Jun 2013
#43
Fine. Ignore history then. You know that the Weimar Republic was never overthrown
Cleita
Jun 2013
#49
That's because those who are following in their footsteps want people not to discuss it.
Cleita
Jun 2013
#63
History is history. You cannot deny it. It's idiotic to ignore abuses of the past.
Cleita
Jun 2013
#74
Totally agree with Cleita. The parallels are too similar for their comfort level, especially
GoneFishin
Jun 2013
#110
Yes, but if I wait until my frog is completely cooked then at least I have the piece of mind
GoneFishin
Jun 2013
#112
Yes. You make a person illegal or an action illegal, then you can round them up
Cleita
Jun 2013
#116
No the round ups of political opponents started after the Reichstag fire
One of the 99
Jun 2013
#117
McConnell and Paul are communists? Your historical equivalencies are rather strange.
Cleita
Jun 2013
#118
They have been spying on us since the cold war. I found out I have an FBI file on me
Cleita
Jun 2013
#50
Snowden signed papers and took oaths that he would not compromise information. He violated that,
still_one
Jun 2013
#58
If things are so terrible here, why don't you involve yourself with candidates that support your
still_one
Jun 2013
#66
I thought I did, I even voted twice or him and gave money. (Never again, getting taken by a DC pol)
nadinbrzezinski
Jun 2013
#69
We're learning quick, or pretending at least. We've gone from demanding to *hoping*
Catherina
Jun 2013
#61
Probably. And only to complicate things if they dare touch him afterwards lol n/t
Catherina
Jun 2013
#72
The Travesty Is Not Snowden - The Travesty Is The Emasculation Of The 4th Amendment
cantbeserious
Jun 2013
#90