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DFW

(54,365 posts)
35. Yeah, and y'all would positivley FREAK at Jefferson's Facebook page.....
Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:02 AM
Jun 2013

It's kinda difficult to use 21st century standards on 18th century anglo white guys.

With permission from the author, I am going to publish a piece of dialogue between a 75 year old retired President Thomas Jefferson and an accidental (and temporary) friend almost 200 years later. It's pure fantasy, of course, but it does highlight the point-there's no way one can't call Jefferson enlightened FOR HIS TIME, as, I think the op implied from the beginning. FYI, the book isn't out yet.--------------


Jefferson pondered. “I had only ten years with my Martha. She died before her thirty-fourth birthday. I was devastated. I must have spent three weeks inside a room in utter despair. Much later, I took up with someone that was completely illicit, at least in my day.”

“It’s all right, Mr. President, we all know about Sally Hemings, and don’t consider it a stain on your legacy at all.”

Jefferson looked stunned. “Really? You all know about Sally? Please don’t even tell me how. I don’t want to know. You can’t imagine what a scandalous thing this is in my time. Our country, then, has truly become the beacon of enlightenment we hoped--Franklin, Madison, the others.”

“Well, not entirely, I’m afraid,” I answered. “There are still strong, even violent forces of reaction that would bring the country back to the days when people were burned at the stake for such things. But they are a distinct minority, to be sure.” I didn’t want to get into the Texas School Board. “We even abolished slavery entirely in 1865.”

“It took that long? I failed in my efforts to get slavery abolished over the years, although I still hold some slaves myself to this day. Ironic, isn’t it? Many of us who were part of the beginning of this country envisioned abolishing slavery altogether by 1808. As president, I even signed a law back in 1808 banning the slave trade with Africa. Some of us had hoped to have slavery abolished by then, but we underestimated the resistance from the southern states, whose economies depended upon its continued existence. From what you say, it took far longer than any of us thought it would. I am glad to hear that it was finally done away with, although I imagine it had enormous economic consequences for the southern states. I’m sure some of them must have had a few objections.”

Oh, just a few, yeah. I didn’t comment on that.

He went on, “There will always be a conflict between the forces of free thought and enlightenment against those of glorified ignorance, control and darkness, I suppose,” Jefferson said. “But as long as they are beaten back by the forces of light and truth, they can be a tolerable evil—indeed, perhaps a useful one, so as to point out by example what is not worthy of aspiration and is to be avoided. I gather from what you’re leading up to that you want my opinion as to whether you’re right to consider abandoning your present life for what, to you, would be the more simple life in an era you would find, superficially, at least, to be primitive?”

“That is basically it in a nutshell,” I admitted.

“In a nutshell,” Jefferson repeated. “Nice little expression. You got that from Hamlet?”

“Umm, no, it’s a common phrase in my day. Is it from Hamlet?”

“Originally, yes. It is very apt. The evolution of language is never-ending. I’m glad you’ve given me a glimpse into what’s become of English in America. It certainly has evolved beyond anything we recognize as contemporary, which is only natural. But back to your question. You’ve said you’re married, but that your wife has left you and has petitioned for a legal dissolution of your marriage, correct?”

“Quite correct,” I confirmed.

“This is feasible in your day, and you have lost whatever affection you had for her long before this little marvel here occurred, correct?”

“Correct again.”

“Well, then, I’ll tell you what I think. But let me preface this by saying that I tell you this as one who has taken reckless risks in life. My affair with Sally may not raise eyebrows in your era, but in mine, it would be grounds for shunning me completely or even worse. This doesn’t even take into account the risk we all took in taking up arms to separate from Britain so many years ago. It cost years of hardship, and many lives were either lost or disrupted forever. The human cost was incalculable. What we call the American Revolution is still called the War of Rebellion in England. But the end result was a miraculous political experiment the likes of which has never been seen on this earth, at least not since the age of Pericles. From what you tell me, it has turned out far from perfect, and so is still a work in progress. But it is a never-ending path, the course of human events. Actually, I used that phrase…”

“In the Declaration of Independence,” I completed. “We all learn your words in school: ‘When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another…’”

A smile formed on his face, spreading to a wide beaming. “That is one of the most pleasing things I’ve learned from you, Robert. Thank you. You’ve truly made my day.”

I managed—just barely—to keep from chuckling and telling him that “make my day” was a familiar phrase, too, but not because of him. I think I would have had a difficult time explaining Dirty Harry to Thomas Jefferson.


oh shit, Snowden is today's Rosa Parks, Elie Wiesel, Thomas Jefferson JI7 Jun 2013 #1
Umm, nope. But the logic is the same. Bonobo Jun 2013 #5
You left out ML King Jr, Gandhi, and Henry Thoreau. ucrdem Jun 2013 #8
Lol! Congratulations on missing the point in a spectacular fashion! sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #27
That's not as clever as it looks. sibelian Jun 2013 #41
If people want to post additional information about Obama, Greenwald, or Snowden.... Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #2
Yes, and I could post that the moon is made of green cheese. Bonobo Jun 2013 #7
Yes, I agree. Free expression is part of what keeps a country from becoming a totalitarian state. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #28
Yeah, that reader would be me. sibelian Jun 2013 #42
I agree with your sentiment. But this is a terribe analogy. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #3
It is the same logic. The analogy is irrelevant. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #6
The analogy is everything. Otherwise, why post it? Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #10
I should say the example is irrelevant. Bonobo Jun 2013 #12
I always thought those guys were hypocrits. Whisp Jun 2013 #4
+100 n/t Tx4obama Jun 2013 #9
They were hypocrites and that's why much of what they said is total bullshit. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #11
The point is that the message can be and should be separated from the messenger. Bonobo Jun 2013 #14
The message can never and should never be fully removed from the messenger. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #15
If a fact is claimed that is in doubt, you are correct. Bonobo Jun 2013 #19
So, it seems Greenwald tried to suck up an old story and make it his own railsback Jun 2013 #22
Please link to the old story about Prism! I'd be really interested to see it! nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #23
PRISM is like upgrading from PS1 to PS6 railsback Jun 2013 #24
Then please link to the old stories that revealed that Apple, Google, Facebook and Skype Bonobo Jun 2013 #25
LoL, you make the accusations so sure of yourself railsback Jun 2013 #26
Dude, are you going to link to show your claim that none of this is new news or not? Bonobo Jun 2013 #31
Wow. Ok. I guess its easier to just flame away on sour grapes. railsback Jun 2013 #32
I didn't think so because you don't have shit. Bonobo Jun 2013 #34
Ha... Totally owned him' Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #37
I really have to disagree with you there MNBrewer Jun 2013 #44
The point is he got some things right. tblue Jun 2013 #16
The source of a message must always be considered. That is what I'm saying. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #18
Sometimes considering something results in saying "Yup, it's irrelevant." nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #20
This is the root of why/how they want to use metadata to disrupt dissent. reusrename Jun 2013 #36
Yep. They wrote down some awesome Utopian ideals, but... Amonester Jun 2013 #17
So you think we should toss out the Constitution then? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #29
Jefferson was full of it. bravenak Jun 2013 #13
Yup, that's why I said fuck him. Bonobo Jun 2013 #21
That's the point, isn't it? Yet our whole country is based on his and the other very flawed sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #30
I have to disagree. Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #33
Yeah, and y'all would positivley FREAK at Jefferson's Facebook page..... DFW Jun 2013 #35
Lol. It is quite good, but there's some WTF in there Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #38
It's a VERY peripheral part of the story DFW Jun 2013 #43
I think YOU are one missing the point. The fact that Snowden is a creep means that we don't have Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #39
the flaw in your logic emma7 Jun 2013 #40
"The wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine..." kentuck Jun 2013 #45
It's a superficial gossip-driven society, with a mass mentality to match. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #46
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