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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
31. There's long been a deliberate conflation
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:30 PM
Jun 2013

of "American interests" with "interests of the few and the powerful."

It's not a uniquely American evil -- we regularly call it out and cluck when we see Russia, China, et al transparently supporting some dictator they're selling weapons to or buying things from. It's a human evil as old as time. People ascribe false, beneficial motivations to selfish interests.

But I'm not sure anyone's doing it to the extent we are right now. It's a PNAC-flavored extension of trickle-down theory, really. We use the military and intelligence strengths we have not for defense, but for offense, and specifically, to obtain power and wealth for the influential and well-connected.

It's only a matter of time before we discover which American private interests are being fed intel on their competition and their critics. We saw one tip of the iceberg with the BOA / HBGary proposal to "destroy Glenn Greenwald" (him again) through dirty social networking tricks.

Nobody needs ten zillion phone records or e-mails to watch out a handful of poorly-armed foreign zealots who, we should remember, premise their attacks on us on the idea that we are already interfering with their countries and their politics.

This stuff is the current version of the CIA setting up banana republics in South America, or the Bush family invading countries in the Middle East. It's quiet and (theoretically) bloodless, but the motivations are the same. And the winners and losers will be the same.

The American public is not in the "win" column.
The Good Germans in Government [View all] woo me with science Jun 2013 OP
Individual conscience is predicated on accepting the consequences of authentic action & actions patrice Jun 2013 #1
Ethics. How refreshing. n/t DirkGently Jun 2013 #8
I'm sorry, are we supposed to be prejudiced against Germans now too? Please clarify. nt patrice Jun 2013 #2
He's calling everyone who believes that the U.S. should have intelligence services NAZIs ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #38
Those weren't just any death camps. reusrename Jun 2013 #54
I know you're just being snarky... ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2013 #56
I honestly don't see your point. reusrename Jul 2013 #57
Your inability to see a point is both obvious, and not my problem ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2013 #58
Hey, if this stuff is being made up, it isn't by me. Go waller some more in your pigeon shit. reusrename Jul 2013 #60
Again, you clearly can't read. ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2013 #63
26 additional senators, together with Senator Wyden, are much more credible than you think. reusrename Jul 2013 #64
Their credibility isn't in question. ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2013 #80
Feel free to fabricate an argument that I haven't made and then shoot it down. reusrename Jul 2013 #81
So are you withdrawing the argument you just made? ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2013 #82
Yes, I withdraw my advice to you. reusrename Jul 2013 #83
The fact that 69 years later some people still ask, "How could that have happened?" just shows how Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #3
this. this. this. a hundred times this. our culture is ill. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #22
Worse, are those reactionary screamers constantly crying "IT'S HAPPENING"!" since it helps inure us KittyWampus Jun 2013 #40
You've made the OP's point all over this thread. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #77
That's very close but it misses the mark slightly, I think. reusrename Jun 2013 #55
It is eerie hearing supposed progressives scream for the blood of the "disloyal." DirkGently Jun 2013 #4
I think "supposed" is the key word in that sentence. woo me with science Jun 2013 #5
And we will find the motivation, ultimately, is power / money for DirkGently Jun 2013 #7
Agree the revelations of who benefitted from this information are KoKo Jun 2013 #24
There's long been a deliberate conflation DirkGently Jun 2013 #31
+ HiPointDem Jun 2013 #35
Good post. woo me with science Jul 2013 #59
Fucking A. TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #62
Sounds right to me. reusrename Jul 2013 #65
Jesus. This kind of stuff makes paranoia redundant. n/t DirkGently Jul 2013 #84
There's a lott of stuff that is supposed by those who don't admit that they don't know what they patrice Jun 2013 #13
Do you think the word "supposed" doesn't apply to you too? nt patrice Jun 2013 #17
I'm re-reading "Manufacturing Consent" right now. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #36
well, I'd suppose the reactionary screamers aren't liberals either. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #41
I'm not one calling for "blood". Only honesty about our differences & our similarities, which patrice Jun 2013 #10
Oh. Nihilistic pragmatism? No thanks. DirkGently Jun 2013 #16
Can't function without labels? Nihilist? Just because you won't/can't perceive patrice Jun 2013 #33
Patrice how is one supposed to deal with costs process wise? We don't have any data TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #61
I don't think these are progressives doing the screaming Doctor_J Jun 2013 #53
Exactly. It's Skinner's choice, but these authoritarian "Democrats" shouldn't be here. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #67
K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #6
DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #9
Criminal or thief is the correct term flamingdem Jun 2013 #11
Right on, but it won't happen because bourgeoisie think revolution is a fashionable cake walk. nt patrice Jun 2013 #15
True. Assange thought so and it's not so bad living at his pricey London address flamingdem Jun 2013 #20
Snowden will probably end up in Rio de Janeiro. Service worker #2 for the stateless patrice Jun 2013 #26
Why did you mention property in Belize? flamingdem Jun 2013 #32
I don't watch CNN much, but it was on in the IRS waiting room the other day and I happened to patrice Jun 2013 #37
I think the keyword is adaptation flamingdem Jun 2013 #45
The Equadorian Embassy is one floor in a large building..Assange has one room. KoKo Jun 2013 #29
Question about facing consequences. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #49
Ellsberg, Manning & Snowden refused to "just follow orders" and be "Good Americans". Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #12
Highly principled persons do make opposite choices just as freely and don't seek PRIVILEGE for patrice Jun 2013 #14
Are you saying that Ellsberg, Manning, and Snowden didn't face consequences? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #18
It seems like Snowden thought he'd be fine in Hong Kong flamingdem Jun 2013 #21
It seems like? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #23
Well he chose to travel there and he had contacts there flamingdem Jun 2013 #25
Well, he could have fled to Chicago or Tupelo I suppose. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #27
He would have been better off to be less spectacular and more flamingdem Jun 2013 #28
The information is, however, getting out to our benefit. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #30
No, I'm saying that any decision to act includes the consequences of action. Freedom isn't no patrice Jun 2013 #42
That would be President Mandela not "bishop". Maybe you're thinking of Bishop Tutu. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #43
K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #19
Robert Scheer is taking notes from Glenn Beck & Alex Jones, now? baldguy Jun 2013 #34
You either forgot your sarcasm thingie Fuddnik Jun 2013 #39
No sarcasm. The nutcases on the right have made a cottage industry out of the false claim baldguy Jun 2013 #46
Actually they usually compare us to Soviets Savannahmann Jun 2013 #47
knr Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #44
I see the Stasi Comformists have shown up. xchrom Jun 2013 #48
Yes, they would have been more relieved Savannahmann Jun 2013 #50
"NSA! NSA! NSA!" backscatter712 Jul 2013 #66
If the word "supposed" doesn't apply to you, that's argument from AUTHORITY, which makes you patrice Jun 2013 #51
ignorant. do you know who robert scheer is? xchrom Jun 2013 #52
Confirmed. It is argument from authority. ALL HAIL Authority, as long as it isnt Barack Obama. nt patrice Jul 2013 #68
My questions still stand: How many dead people does Robert think the possibility of being WRONG patrice Jul 2013 #69
How come I can't get Robert, the AUTHORITY, to tell us which issues & in what priority he's willing patrice Jul 2013 #70
How come I can't get Robert to tell us whether he's a Libertarian or not. You'd think such a great patrice Jul 2013 #71
How many people does Robert think should die for unregulated PRIVATE assault weapons trade around patrice Jul 2013 #72
*** you might want to ask yourself if you don't have a slight case of sycophancy, no wait, make patrice Jul 2013 #74
*** you might want to educate yourself on the philosophy & nature of sciience, anyone who CAN'T patrice Jul 2013 #75
Let me amend: anyone who CAN'T admit the possibility and consequences of being WRONG is patrice Jul 2013 #79
Yeah, those evil Germans, you know, the ones who have Labor's right to organize institutionalized patrice Jul 2013 #73
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. randome Jul 2013 #76
Not everyone that you assume is forgetting history & people can think outside of the box in patrice Jul 2013 #78
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