Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: An overlooked A-bomb issue: the wait-a-couple-weeks argument [View all]zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)35. Let's be clear, i.e. an Asian "iron curtain"
I agree completely. One important motivation to bomb was the scenario in which the Soviet Union attacks and then Japan surrenders, with no A-bomb having been dropped. Washington didnt want that. In my OP, I emphasized that the U.S. government wanted the chance to demonstrate the power of the bomb on a city, but its also correct that there was a big push to get the bomb dropped before the (known date of the) Soviet attack. The supposed concern about the military necessity was largely pretextual. (Notably, none of the military commanders in that theater were even consulted. The only military leader who was asked for an opinion was Eisenhower, who advised against the bombing.)
You write, It would have made Truman's day if the Japanese surrendered because that would achieve his number one and number two strategic goals--ending the war before the Soviets got in on it. Again, I agree completely. Thats an important reason that he didnt wait a few weeks. Thus the issue is not whether destruction of two cities and massacre of scores of thousands of civilians was justified to save the American lives that would be lost in an invasion, but rather whether those horrendous consequences were justified by these geopolitical considerations. One can argue that they were but its a different argument from the ones that apologists for the bombing choose to present. I personally believe that because the slaughter was so extensive, and because it involved a weapon with a new order of destructive power, it would require very heavy justification, and gaming the Soviets didnt cut it.
Okay, let's be sure we all understand what is being said here. The US, and the western world, was seeing what was happening in Europe already in areas the Russians (I don't believe they were called the Soviets yet) were controlling. What would become known as the "Iron Curtain" was already forming. The US (and Britain) did NOT want that to happen in the Asian-Pacific. The more land they grabbed, and if they got in on the surrender negotiations with a decent negotiating position, there were real fears that the eastern european situation would repeat.
Again, one has to understand the context under which these decisions were made. It isn't the same perception we have today. They had very "immediate" concerns based upon what they had experienced over the last 4 years. And there was some confusion about what was true and what was not. And they had become familiar with "total war" even while tiring of it such that the mass bombing of two cities (and many didn't understand how powerful these bombs were) wasn't going to be the consideration then that it is to many of us today.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
67 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
heaven forfend that we should discuss possible alternatives in such a horrific event.
niyad
Aug 2013
#3
Rape of Nanking. Heaven forbid that we should discuss possible alternatives in
Nanjing to Seoul
Aug 2013
#14
is it so hard to understand that the possible alternatives discussion reference should have happened
niyad
Aug 2013
#31
The world had gone through WWI and now less than thirty years later was engulfed in another war
Fumesucker
Aug 2013
#9
The targeting documents are dry reading, like most military documents, but are available
ConcernedCanuk
Aug 2013
#60
I appreciate that you're not echoing the tired "save American lives" meme, but....
Jim Lane
Aug 2013
#25
Thanks for responding. I've based my arguments on primary sources, hence contradictions.
Bucky
Aug 2013
#36
I have often wondered what the ramifications of waiting for a Soviet invasion were
Lee-Lee
Aug 2013
#34
Sure, wait the additional time if you know that yet another powerful nation will declare war.
Jim Lane
Aug 2013
#38
Regardless - the indiscriminate slaughter and maiming of tens of thousands with one bomb is amoral
ConcernedCanuk
Aug 2013
#66