Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
18. Edit: I DONT THINK HE SAID IT. My point is, Atheism simply means a lack of belief in a God or Gods.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 07:53 PM
Feb 2012

People get very hung up on definitions, yes- and what I suspect Sagan was addressing was the assertion "I know there isn't a God", which I don't hear made all that often.

However, I don't believe there is a God, there are any Gods, and I see no objective evidence to the contrary- that is pretty much the core of what comprises most Atheistic thought.

I suspect Sagan was arguing to keep an open mind, which is the essence of science. But that goes hand in hand with evidence-based validation.

It's a vast misstatement, I think, to assert that Sagan thought Atheism was "stupid".

Edit: Okay, um, if you follow that Wikipedia quote, via the footnotes, you see no evidence that Sagan actually said that quote.



The quote is referenced to an article in Skeptic, which as near as I can tell, does NOT contain that quote.

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-sagan-file/

In the comments to the article;

Lone Primate says:
February 13, 2012 at 4:52 am

Where did Carl Sagan every say this: “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”

You can chase around the ‘net for weeks and you see nothing but people quoting people quoting people quoting people. But no one ever gives a citation, except for the LAST guy who quoted it. So where did he actually say this? Because I’m increasingly disinclined to believe he ever actually did. It’s beginning to look like a rootless meme.
Reply
Mark Klotz says:
February 15, 2012 at 9:53 pm

Yes, I would ask the same question; Specifically, when, and where did Carl Sagan ever state “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”

I can find no reference to this anywhere, other than the article that was printed in the Washington Post.
Reply





I think wikipedia needs a clean-up on aisle sagan, honestly.
Love this! n/t zappaman Feb 2012 #1
K&R Gold Metal Flake Feb 2012 #2
"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know." - Carl Sagan onehandle Feb 2012 #3
Again, it's important to define terms, something many THEISTS seem practically allergic to doing. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #9
It's from Wikipedia. onehandle Feb 2012 #13
Edit: I DONT THINK HE SAID IT. My point is, Atheism simply means a lack of belief in a God or Gods. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #18
Hmm. Some yahoo in the comments of 'skeptic.com,' vs. the Washington Post and my wife... onehandle Feb 2012 #22
The yahoo is whoever edited the wikipedia page with improper sourcing. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #26
And nothing in that section conflicts with the other section. onehandle Mar 2012 #29
Apparently in your zeal- for whatever reason- to slam Atheists-as-a-class, you missed the part about Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #32
Uh, ok... Wasn't 'slamming' anyone, but if you have a problem with that Sagan quote... onehandle Mar 2012 #35
Okay. You took a totally out of context quote of dubious origin which runs COMPLETELY against the Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #36
thanks for doing that searching iverglas Mar 2012 #40
As has been noted elsewhere, most if not all theists are also atheists or unbelievers on the subject Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #41
You claim to have been personally close to Sagan, and you think it's okay to slam Atheists? Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #27
"you think it's okay to slam Atheists?" MiddleFingerMom Mar 2012 #39
To try to pretend that Carl Sagan- whose life was dedicated to promoting science & rational thought- Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #42
uh-huh - same... SAME... as them (but but but) MiddleFingerMom Mar 2012 #44
Not following. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #45
Richard Dawkins put it so well hifiguy Mar 2012 #31
Stop bigoted bashing bashing bigotry bash bash bigot bigot anti religion bigot Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #33
LOL! hifiguy Mar 2012 #34
Using that definition, even Richard Dawkins isn't an atheist pokerfan Feb 2012 #16
I think, especially if you're a fan of Sagan, you should delete this post. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #21
No. See #22. nt onehandle Feb 2012 #23
no attribution, fail got root Mar 2012 #30
K&R, with a little tear. Brickbat Feb 2012 #4
What are his current thoughts on the after-life? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #5
I doubt that he has any current thoughts. He is dead. n/t RebelOne Feb 2012 #7
Exactly, his thoughts and comment on the after-life would be MUCH more relevant. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #8
Yes, because everyone who is dead is, by definition, wrong about everything they ever said. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #10
Who says he's wrong? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #11
experience, by some definitions, requires existence. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #12
And thus Plucketeer Feb 2012 #6
I saw several interviews with Sagan, incl. one where he discussed God. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #14
The Buddhist view, as I understand it, is NOT that life on earth is wonderful. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #15
Thanks for the post. Sagan is a great role model. Better Believe It Feb 2012 #17
We were blessed with a big brain so we could tell ouselves fairytales and that we're important. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #19
I myself believe in a general afterlife but this didn't stop me from reccing this awesome 'toon. nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2012 #20
It is a good toon. Sagan was excellent in handling all concepts fairly. nt onehandle Mar 2012 #24
I can only tell you what I know myself, what I experienced and felt and touched. roguevalley Mar 2012 #25
Simply awesome. No other way to put it. =) AverageJoe90 Mar 2012 #28
me too. My dad had two and he came through them changed profoundly. it is the most roguevalley Mar 2012 #38
Carl Sagan did NOT claim to believe in "God" or "Afterlife". He also was a pot smoker. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #37
.. mdmc Mar 2012 #43
.. mdmc Mar 2012 #46
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Carl Sagan on Life... and...»Reply #18