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In reply to the discussion: NSA: Shut it down? [View all]
 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
18. The only example they presented in detail...
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:52 AM
Sep 2013

Last edited Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

would have to be a strong one, right? And then it turned out NSA surveillance had nothing to do with catching the suspects in that case.

If that was the best they could do - you gotta wonder how they couldn't manufacture anything better, but it was basically an act of contempt, another fuck-you to us, like: We're full of bullshit but people believe us anyway, what are you going to do about it?

But that prompts a key question:

So what is the NSA for?

(Spontaneous notes)

(1) Among other things, it's an industrial policy. For ideological reasons, the U.S. pretense is that the government does not subsidize technological development, that this is one of the worst Sins Against Capitalism. Now this is a tough one, since of course government has always subsidized R&D and that's how most R&D happens in the capitalist and imperialist powers, whatever our myths of lone geniuses. So we have outfits like NSA and DARPA to develop computing and telephony (going back to the Bell Labs days) and eventually spawning (directly or indirectly) the basis for www, Oracle, Google, Facebook, etc.

And so industrial policy, an indispensable component of modern capitalism (which according to ideology is a European-Chinese sin only, we just have a "market" do everything by magic) is implemented in the form of a so-called "security agency" that subsidizes industries but does not actually provide any security. (In fact, it's part of a larger apparatus that makes enemies, and if it doesn't make enough of those, it makes them up.)

And what is the particular technology that is being developed?

(2) A general surveillance apparatus of Americans, Earthians and all of their businesses and corporations, with all of the power and benefits for those who have access to it that such an apparatus implies.

While:

(3) Making a lot of money for the contractors and, importantly, their executives and consultants, who are recruited through the revolving door after an early retirement from "service," so that it becomes a massive self-licking ice-cream cone, the equal of Wall Street in corruption and self-deceiving justifications - and, fatally, power, fully unaccountable power - plus all those wonderful jobs jobs jobs to justify it.

And

(4) Because like any institution it's got to have an internal morality or religion, and because this is going to have to be a lie (since it is a primarily superfluous and parasitic institution) it turns into, along with the rest of the "intelligence" and "security" and "homeland" "communities," a dictatorship over a separate, extraconstitutional realm of government -- a parallel state that provides "security" against "enemies" and is expected to break the rules and "Do business with unsavory characters." With a nearly totalitarian ideology in place that most of them always believe and usually become fanatic about. Everything they do is justified and much worse will be justified besides, because all this is for America to survive through a perpetual death-match with World Communism.

Sorry, terrorism. I meant terrorism. Communism, where did that come from?

NSA: Shut it down? [View all] JackRiddler Sep 2013 OP
Maybe not. If the info they collect were actually helping thwart enemies of the people, Dark n Stormy Knight Sep 2013 #1
“Nuke the entire site from orbit--it’s the only way to be sure” OnyxCollie Sep 2013 #2
Yup, I trust no "reforms" or promises, blow it away and make every cent of budget allocation public TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #12
Many companies have their data facilities mirrored, hughee99 Sep 2013 #27
Don't, but... Ohio Joe Sep 2013 #3
Pretty much this. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #8
Shackle it. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #4
Jail everyone responsible for the current mess hootinholler Sep 2013 #5
Yes, it is a threat to a free society LittleBlue Sep 2013 #6
Kick for votes, midnight central JackRiddler Sep 2013 #7
I'm much more worried about the CIA, but Recursion Sep 2013 #9
CIA: Shut it down. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #10
No, I'd rather have the roaches all in one room Recursion Sep 2013 #11
Interesting view of it. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #14
What if that room of roaches is filled to capacity and it overflows to the rest of the house? Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #35
Also, not to harp on the metaphor... JackRiddler Oct 2013 #41
in my heart I would like to shut it down the same way I would like to shut the Pentagon down and Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #13
Perhaps one could.. sendero Sep 2013 #16
No there isn't a way to fix that culture... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #25
I talk like a utopian... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #23
Remember when the current revelations first came out.. sendero Sep 2013 #15
The only example they presented in detail... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #18
The idea that "gentlemen don't read each other's mail" led to WWI & allowed Pearl Harbor to happen. baldguy Sep 2013 #17
No, it didn't. Your initial premise: ridiculous. Microscopic. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #19
I'm guessing you don't know much history, do you? baldguy Sep 2013 #20
Masterful projection. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #21
History of Oil Ace Acme Oct 2013 #40
Please clarify: I seems like you are saying the US could have prevented WWI & WWII by reading mail Taitertots Sep 2013 #22
Watch out, he almost certainly does. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #24
I can't answer cuz I don't know it the NSA actually does anything beneficial for the people Zorra Sep 2013 #26
Keep it with more oversight. ntt rrneck Sep 2013 #28
No. You're naive if you think the NSA doesn't serve a purpose NightWatcher Sep 2013 #29
Of course the NSA serves a purpose! JackRiddler Sep 2013 #33
What about the apparent total confidence that it does nothing treestar Sep 2013 #34
Yes! Turbineguy Sep 2013 #30
Return to the pre-FISA law. Title III of the 1968 Act banned all warrantless domestic wiretapping. leveymg Sep 2013 #31
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #32
A last kick? JackRiddler Sep 2013 #36
Absolutely! JackRiddler Oct 2013 #37
Almost. JackRiddler Oct 2013 #39
Oct. 1st: 76% of 79 users say "Shut It Down" JackRiddler Oct 2013 #38
timely kick for votes!!! JackRiddler Dec 2013 #42
Oh, so relevant all of a sudden. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #43
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