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MADem

(135,425 posts)
180. So you're saying that the pharmacist can't call over another pharmacist to do his dirty work?
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 04:09 AM
Dec 2013

Sorry-I am not buying your logic, and you haven't bolstered a thing.

All having people on the payroll who will not touch the haram stuff--but who will take a paycheck based on it--is a slowdown in service, an attempt to "shame" the customers for boozing and baconing...and it's bullshit.

You get paid to check people out, that's what you do--otherwise, find another job where one doesn't have to work with--or PROFIT off of--haram products. Enough of this special snowflake crap that is not based on anything in "everyday Islam" but is pandering to fundy, non-mainstream nonsense.

I agree etherealtruth Dec 2013 #1
So you don't mind being discriminated against my staff in a grocery store? Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #3
What? Surely, you jest ...? etherealtruth Dec 2013 #15
And it is your right to not work for a bar that allows smoking joeglow3 Dec 2013 #247
How does my logic change? etherealtruth Dec 2013 #250
Waiting .... etherealtruth Dec 2013 #255
Would you support their right to discriminate against gay customers? Hugabear Dec 2013 #111
What in the world are you talking about etherealtruth Dec 2013 #113
If it makes you feel any better drm604 Dec 2013 #154
Well, it was unclear enough for two people to not understand my intent. etherealtruth Dec 2013 #155
I think the ambiguity was because a word was missing. pnwmom Dec 2013 #194
Yep etherealtruth Dec 2013 #202
I'm still thinking WTF. Your writing seems clear to me. JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2013 #219
thanks. My personal rule for this kind of communication etherealtruth Dec 2013 #243
Your post was perfectly clear. I am constantly amazed at how often people tblue37 Dec 2013 #275
Thanks etherealtruth Dec 2013 #279
I notice that those who jumped on you didn't bother to apologize--or to respond at all-- tblue37 Dec 2013 #284
That is par for the course etherealtruth Dec 2013 #285
This is the inevitable result of giving one religious group that privilege. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #2
This is the UK Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #5
Right, but you understand my point? cleanhippie Dec 2013 #8
Yes, but I don't like it. Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #10
I agree. We shouldn't allow this type of thing. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #11
There's no "we" involved. Igel Dec 2013 #77
we used to shop at the hippy dippy grocer and I had a vegan refuse to serve me meat NightWatcher Dec 2013 #4
That was one little store Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #7
Why the hell was she working in a deli? Orrex Dec 2013 #16
they sell all kinds of veggie tempeh tofu... dishes NightWatcher Dec 2013 #18
She "couldn't touch meat" because she was a vegan? Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #125
Well if she was vegan for moral reasons, it makes perfect sense. Ash_F Dec 2013 #199
They put a vegan in the DELI? jmowreader Dec 2013 #204
Probably she was covering for a regular Ash_F Dec 2013 #294
How the fuck does this work. edhopper Dec 2013 #6
They should have a no pork or liqueur line. Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #9
Excuse me customerserviceguy Dec 2013 #74
I agree. Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #88
Yet another to add to my WTF list for today. It makes absolutely no sense at all, if the RKP5637 Dec 2013 #12
The fundamentalist nutjob is always right. I guess they don't need stuff like customers nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #13
+1000 JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #52
+1. freshwest Dec 2013 #168
Religion, the great divider of mankind ... throughout history has caused more grief and suffering.nt RKP5637 Dec 2013 #14
^This^ Arugula Latte Dec 2013 #35
That's beyond messed-up. Codeine Dec 2013 #17
Ridiculous. Why go to a free society and try to impose your own fundie nutbag ideologies? Dash87 Dec 2013 #19
Because your book tells you to. It's the inevitable consequence of believing Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #23
That is called multiculturalism. jessie04 Dec 2013 #40
Multiculturalism is the acceptance of the good in all cultures. Bowing to fundies is different. Dash87 Dec 2013 #70
According to the article, the customer is asked to wait while they get another cbayer Dec 2013 #20
Why not accommodate a racist's convictions? PassingFair Dec 2013 #22
Are you equating people with religious beliefs with racists? cbayer Dec 2013 #24
A belief is a belief. PassingFair Dec 2013 #28
Again, I ask this - are you equating people with religious beliefs with racists? cbayer Dec 2013 #32
SOME courts agree with that. Courts in more "religious" states do NOT. PassingFair Dec 2013 #48
29 States allow open discrimination in not just services but in housing and employment Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #235
these are not exactly the same as pork/alcholol La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2013 #142
I agree. There has to be some reason here although when you're talking about religion there liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #173
Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #248
Some people's religious beliefs are bigoted--like the Duck Dynasty guy. MADem Dec 2013 #58
That's true, but that wasn't my question. cbayer Dec 2013 #64
IF a religion demands that someone is a second class citizen DonCoquixote Dec 2013 #118
I can not disagree that there are aspects of religion or ways that cbayer Dec 2013 #119
The creed doe not matter DonCoquixote Dec 2013 #122
The store is not refusing to sell anything to anyone. cbayer Dec 2013 #128
I think Marks-n-Sparks needs to modify their employment application. MADem Dec 2013 #167
I don't know if you found this OwnedByCats Dec 2013 #197
My experience of queuing in the UK was different... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #221
LOL OwnedByCats Dec 2013 #293
I've queued in M/S and in Woolworth's on the odd High Street, and MADem Dec 2013 #296
Definitely true by my experience OwnedByCats Dec 2013 #298
I've lived in the Middle East and gone to some of the most holy sites in (shi'a) Islam. MADem Dec 2013 #300
I'm the same way, I don't mind what other people believe - OwnedByCats Dec 2013 #301
Well, they're Muslims, see? Scootaloo Dec 2013 #95
I guess I've managed to avoid most of these discussions, cbayer Dec 2013 #99
I would really be surprised if they were Scootaloo Dec 2013 #100
Sadly.... RFKHumphreyObama Dec 2013 #115
"Where it comes to Islam, DU is as much of an ignorant hate site as FreeRepublic." you are so right Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #120
I have found this thread fairly shocking. cbayer Dec 2013 #130
sadly I have to say DU Admin has long been extremely tolerant of anti-Muslim bigotry and things have Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #131
I think its broader than that, though I can see the problem in this thread. cbayer Dec 2013 #135
Sometimes I wonder if a new poster who is progressive and a person of faith really feels welcome hrmjustin Dec 2013 #149
unfortunately you are quite correct. Even if a person doesn't hold to any belief system - it is Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #159
Agreed. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #160
Others see only one's actions, not the 'belief' or 'faith' another might claim. Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #236
"Most people of faith are bigots". Wow talk about a broad brush. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #237
Hi Douglas. I totally agree with you and have noticed things are getting worse, not better n/t Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #166
a lot worse ... DU Admin doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with even the most hateful Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #185
It violates state law in USA for someone under 21 to ring up alcohol. MADem Dec 2013 #187
If Marks and Spencer's finds a way to accommodate the sensitivities of some of the staff while Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #193
They're doing it by inconveniencing the customers, apparently. MADem Dec 2013 #195
so far there has been no evidence of customers complaining of inconvenience - there are many people Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #200
Did you read the Daily Mail comments? smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #271
Do you know who reads the Daily Mail? cbayer Dec 2013 #273
Some states. It's perfectly legal in California. nt Codeine Dec 2013 #216
That's silly. It's no different than the Catholic pharmacist refusing to hand the MADem Dec 2013 #169
It's absolutely not the same. Scootaloo Dec 2013 #176
So you're saying that the pharmacist can't call over another pharmacist to do his dirty work? MADem Dec 2013 #180
I'm familiar with the anti-choice pharmacists in the US... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #211
Delay or deny, the end result is that the customer is disaccommoded. MADem Dec 2013 #258
But that's not M&S's policy... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #262
"With no delays or inconveniences...." MADem Dec 2013 #295
I'm saying that they don't do so, and your example acknowledges that reality Scootaloo Dec 2013 #213
They can be ordered to, but the customer is still affected. MADem Dec 2013 #252
I have been reading the Religion forum for a long while now, ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #179
If you live in many countries, Scientology is not recognized as a religion. MADem Dec 2013 #181
Yes, Scientology faces a lot of bigotry around the world. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #182
Well, I think it's a cult, myself. I am not alone in that, either. MADem Dec 2013 #183
Thank you for providing an example of Scientology bigotry on DU. nt ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #184
My view of the cult is based on their published dicta. I merely applied basic reasoning skills. nt MADem Dec 2013 #186
Some atheists, usually called "new atheists," ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #188
Whatever floats your boat. nt MADem Dec 2013 #191
Any criticism is seen as "bigotry" to religions zealots alarimer Dec 2013 #233
Sure, but some is bigotry. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #256
No get the red out Dec 2013 #226
LOL..... Logical Dec 2013 #170
In many cases (although not this one) yes, absolutely. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #206
OB-GYN should choose a different job??? onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #228
I would absolutely equate the two...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #223
Because selling pork or booze has nothing to do with their silly-ass Bronze age nonsense. Codeine Dec 2013 #26
Well that's your opinion. cbayer Dec 2013 #30
Having to leave the line I've patiently waited in Codeine Dec 2013 #43
In the only example they actually give, the customer was cbayer Dec 2013 #50
My descriptors would be no less disparaging Codeine Dec 2013 #59
The assumption being made is that this is causing an inconvenience. cbayer Dec 2013 #66
But why is this suddenly a problem CJCRANE Dec 2013 #46
These products are sold in many muslim majority countries? cbayer Dec 2013 #51
Read the comments at the link. Lots of people chipping in about this. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #55
Some of the comments are frankly disgusting, but cbayer Dec 2013 #69
It's kind of a vicious circle...religious fundamentalism elicits a reaction which then increases the CJCRANE Dec 2013 #72
I think it's important to make a distinction that defines extremism cbayer Dec 2013 #76
Egypt, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey.... MADem Dec 2013 #189
"There is a massive problem with discrimination against Muslims in the UK" brentspeak Dec 2013 #104
Are you not aware of the violence that has been perpetrated against cbayer Dec 2013 #106
"I doubt that the Marks & Spencer management is stupid" brentspeak Dec 2013 #108
We shall see, but I wouldn't bet on it. cbayer Dec 2013 #109
I know it's not M&S that are stupid... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #214
The Daily Mail's headline and subheadline are highly misleading muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #259
What about the non-fundamentalist muslims who want to buy a beer? CJCRANE Dec 2013 #136
No one is preventing them from buying a beer. cbayer Dec 2013 #139
It's a thin pose. If one's wages are a portion of profits from selling intoxicants Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #240
No edhopper Dec 2013 #27
That's not what it says in the text of the article, so I think cbayer Dec 2013 #31
It does say that. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #33
I would guess that the store is quite sensitive to this issue cbayer Dec 2013 #41
An OB-GYN who refuses to dispense birth control should not be licensed. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #44
I didn't ask about birth control. I asked about abortions. cbayer Dec 2013 #47
No, this is not Islam, it's childish fundamentalism. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #65
From what I understand there is a prohibition against selling intoxicants. cbayer Dec 2013 #67
One of the best places in the middle east for good 'abejo' used to be Iran. MADem Dec 2013 #302
Quote from the article. edhopper Dec 2013 #36
However, the one example they give is of a customer being told that they cbayer Dec 2013 #45
First you say there is nothing wrong with what M&S are doing edhopper Dec 2013 #49
Agreeing with the policy of the store and seeing the article cbayer Dec 2013 #54
CBayer - would you be okay with this situation happening? Dash87 Dec 2013 #80
I have posted about this before and I recognize that I am not in the majority cbayer Dec 2013 #84
Fair enough, but I think your last point is a little different. Dash87 Dec 2013 #91
What if your store is in a high crime district where pharmacies that have cbayer Dec 2013 #94
It is not your job to enforce drug laws. If there's a prescription mill, call the DEA. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #133
Not sure what you mean by this. cbayer Dec 2013 #137
Okay, exactly. State licensing. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #138
Do you think an OB-GYN who has a personal position about abortion should be forced cbayer Dec 2013 #141
It depends on whether performing abortions is central to their state-licensed function. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #144
There is leeway in licensing that permits people to not do certain things cbayer Dec 2013 #147
The draft is not voluntary. Becoming a pharmacist is. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #150
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on this. cbayer Dec 2013 #153
I still don't understand this, you think people have the right to NOT do their job because of... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #254
I think that if a conscientious objection is valid and can be cbayer Dec 2013 #263
Conscientious objection only makes sense if you are asked to do something unlawful... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #268
No, conscientious objection is much more than that. cbayer Dec 2013 #269
I'm sorry, this is just a bullshit argument, I work with pharmacists every day, and frankly... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #251
Do you think that an OB-Gyn who personally objects to abortions cbayer Dec 2013 #264
If they are hired in an office that performs them, and was aware that they may have... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #267
Almost everyone, including licensing boards and professional cbayer Dec 2013 #270
I didn't mention the OP's subject, I will say its stupid, and apparently an exaggeration by the... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #272
What an Ob-Gyn does or does not do is generally up to them as individuals. cbayer Dec 2013 #274
So now you agree with me? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #276
I don't think I have disagreed with you. cbayer Dec 2013 #281
Actually, there have been issues at chains such as CVS with pharmacists refusing... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #283
I'm not sure it should be codified, but I don't know enough cbayer Dec 2013 #286
Solutions to a problem that is wholly created by the intractable anti-choice... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #287
Birth control--of the PLAN B variety--is an OTC medication. MADem Dec 2013 #163
Pharmacies are licensed by the state to dispense medication. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #132
I am flabbergasted... Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #89
No, that's not what I said at all. cbayer Dec 2013 #93
This is what you wrote; Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #98
How does it humiliate the customer? cbayer Dec 2013 #101
So what if the anti choice OB-GYN refuses, and the only alternative is an observant Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #241
A few thoughts on this question. cbayer Dec 2013 #242
I agree. rucky Dec 2013 #201
Christian and Muslim fundamentalists are always making things difficult for the average person. nt politichew Dec 2013 #21
Fundamentalists = superstitious dullards with no place in modern society. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #29
There was a hindu man at my old grocery store who had an easy solution Marrah_G Dec 2013 #25
If I had to work at a store that sold meat Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #90
My ex-husband is a Muslim etherealtruth Dec 2013 #134
No till operator would be touching the meat itself anyway muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #260
Never seen alcohol sold by Marks and Sparks not in a bottle or can either. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #277
I bought some today muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #282
I missed out "not" in that post.......doh. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #291
Ah yes - I thought it was a strange thing to say! muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #292
Who are we to judge? jessie04 Dec 2013 #34
Why not? They offend me every fucking day with their goofy-ass Skydaddy tripe. Codeine Dec 2013 #37
Sure edhopper Dec 2013 #42
Bullshit RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #78
It's arrogant to expect as a customer to get rung up by a person hired to ring me up? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #81
Slick move, and you got three DUers to jump. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #82
This message was self-deleted by its author Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #83
I'm new here, but I can tell what they are up to. delta17 Dec 2013 #102
Wow, you are clever! And arrogant it sounds! nt Logical Dec 2013 #171
No, JihadWatch Jessie is just that transparent. n/t Scootaloo Dec 2013 #177
Thanks for the warm welcome. nt delta17 Dec 2013 #207
Ignore them. They were incredibly nasty to you... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #220
Thanks! delta17 Dec 2013 #234
lol Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #92
Isn't this clearly a two-way street? tritsofme Dec 2013 #114
I bet you don't say that for the fundies to Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #157
Another strong argument for Oppressive Religion. 99Forever Dec 2013 #38
This holier-than-thou behavior is getting a little over the top. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #39
It's UK, not us, but I think it's horseshit. MADem Dec 2013 #53
"Will your religion cause you to discriminate against our customers in any way?" Zorra Dec 2013 #56
Yes, I think the customers have cause to say they are being discriminated against, especially if the freshwest Dec 2013 #172
I agree. It's getting way out of hand. Zorra Dec 2013 #246
I don't think you understand multi- culturalism. jessie04 Dec 2013 #261
Let's see...I'm female -check- dark skinned multiethnic -check- LGBT - check Zorra Dec 2013 #297
I don't think someone could ask that of a potential employee RainDog Dec 2013 #299
I would leave all my groceries on the conveyor belt and /or in the cart and walk out. left is right Dec 2013 #57
As would I. RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #79
Yup, this. appal_jack Dec 2013 #96
So now are they LiberalElite Dec 2013 #60
sounds more like you won't know edhopper Dec 2013 #61
Then what I'd do is - LiberalElite Dec 2013 #62
The policy invites - nearly requires, actually - profiling based on appearance. Codeine Dec 2013 #68
I do think M&S has gotten onto a slippery slope - LiberalElite Dec 2013 #71
The problem is, what if they have 10 tills open one day and 8 Muslims working that shift. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #278
As Long as it doesn't JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #63
I buy Hebrew National hot dogs for just that reason. dionysus Dec 2013 #148
Hey now! JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #222
i live in the home of Zweigles... love me some red and white pop-opens... BUT dionysus Dec 2013 #238
My first boss out of Unversity JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #288
holy cow, i pass by that Wahls in Avon every time i go golfing at Farview!!!!! dionysus Dec 2013 #303
It's not really a big deal LittleBlue Dec 2013 #73
I would walk the fuck out of that store and never return. nt RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #75
No coercion involved. Everyone has choice here. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #85
Probably because of their clientele. Igel Dec 2013 #86
I'm of two minds on this. Deep13 Dec 2013 #87
They can't even sell it? treestar Dec 2013 #97
Considering most of the small liquor stores in my area Codeine Dec 2013 #103
Why do they keep giving in to this insanity? PeteSelman Dec 2013 #105
That's a bit over the top. Codeine Dec 2013 #107
That's true. jessie04 Dec 2013 #110
You're silly and you should go away. nt Codeine Dec 2013 #112
lol... I haven't figured that poster out yet. penultimate Dec 2013 #127
I have... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #165
Business has the right to refuse to sell their products to anyone Rex Dec 2013 #116
I know it! Will their collective alcoholism ever end?! nt Deep13 Dec 2013 #158
A Mr. Duke of Louisiana called. He wants his talking points back. n/t Scootaloo Dec 2013 #178
Talking points, right. PeteSelman Dec 2013 #209
Sinister, really? Scootaloo Dec 2013 #210
Yeah, I want to hear more about this sinister stuff that's going on in the UK as well... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #212
Guh, SPOILERS! n/t Scootaloo Dec 2013 #215
Oops, sorry. But I did leave out some of them... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #217
Yeah, really. PeteSelman Dec 2013 #232
World history in a nutshell: New people came, things changed. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #257
Oh, ok. No problem then. PeteSelman Dec 2013 #289
Oh, I'm well aware of Malmo Scootaloo Dec 2013 #290
Prolly a non-starter article... Marks and Spencer typically has a separate checkout for their food JCMach1 Dec 2013 #117
I don't see this as a big deal. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #121
This message was self-deleted by its author penultimate Dec 2013 #124
If you are worried that your God will hate you for selling alcohol or pork products, Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #123
There may be some inconveniences if they don't make it apparent where they penultimate Dec 2013 #126
If your religion interferes with your ability to perform your job, either get a different job Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #129
you know that's illegal, right. if its a non-essential part of your job, your organization La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2013 #143
I don't see how selling products that a store has for sale, is not an essential part Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #146
a store sells a milllion products, of which you can't touch two, and neither La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2013 #152
that's reasonable accommodation based on sincerely held religious beliefs La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2013 #140
Do you really think it's going to stop there? Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #161
Why is it any of yr business? Do you run M&S? Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #218
The thing is: we don't know how many muslim cashiers actually choose to do this. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #145
It actually makes the issue worse Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2013 #162
No kidding, if you can't do the job, work elsewhere Warpy Dec 2013 #151
Ridiculous. Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #156
I see the Daily Mail is still peddling its Islamophobic bullshit. But why are you peddling it here? Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #164
Plenty of other links for this story. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #175
do they refuse paychecks because it's made up of alcohol and pork that has been sold ? JI7 Dec 2013 #174
This is the Daily Mail, 'nuff said LeftishBrit Dec 2013 #190
They've got a sensationalised headline done to appeal to people who hate Muslims... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #208
Here in Germany most Turkish restaurants serve alcohol DFW Dec 2013 #192
Its odd Notafraidtoo Dec 2013 #196
What I don't get is OwnedByCats Dec 2013 #198
religion LOL n/t KG Dec 2013 #203
Daily Mail nonsense Nine Dec 2013 #205
This is incredibly WRONG get the red out Dec 2013 #224
I sounds like it was a misunderstanding between the corporate office and the store davidpdx Dec 2013 #225
I worked in a factory onlyadream Dec 2013 #227
I'm a cashier nilesobek Dec 2013 #229
but not doing your job KatyMan Dec 2013 #231
Oh wow!! darkangel218 Dec 2013 #230
If I waited in line for 10-15 minutes only to finally reach the register and then be told Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #239
I have to wait for a different cashier almost every time I buy wine at the grocery store. Nine Dec 2013 #244
Daily Mail - tempest in a teacup. GoneOffShore Dec 2013 #245
Here's a more reliable, less sensationalized version of the story LeftishBrit Dec 2013 #249
This would be great infromation as an OP etherealtruth Dec 2013 #265
If Marks & Spencer had a specified Halal area and separate check-out - I wouldn't have an issue. haele Dec 2013 #253
Terrible precedent... Hope they get a backlash... Lost_Count Dec 2013 #266
Maybe they shouldn't be working there if they don't want to do their job. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #280
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