General Discussion

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

56. Whether there's malice or not is neither here nor there.

Thu Dec 26, 2013, 03:23 PM

Dec 2013

It's disingenuous at best, and acting in bad faith, at worst, to so wilfully misrepresent the issue at hand as being a question of "patriarchy vs matriatrchy". Pointing out that the entire OP is built around premises that have nothing to do with the issues they're referencing is not jumping down anyone's throat. What would you say if someone posted an apparently thoughtful OP that conflated a desire for the reform of our current capitalist system with communism? Or of racial equality with the subjugation of whites? Because it's the same thing.

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Highlight:

Battle of the Sexists [View all] H2O Man Dec 2013 OP

The Tao Octafish Dec 2013 #1

Another well thought out and well written thread. K and R panader0 Dec 2013 #2

I fear this will not go well stevenleser Dec 2013 #3

are you kidding? arely staircase Dec 2013 #4

Exactly! stevenleser Dec 2013 #5

nothing like digging through a diamond heap arely staircase Dec 2013 #6

and the land speed record goes to arely staircase Dec 2013 #9

Sorry, but the entire OP is nonsense. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #15

Totally agree. There are no existing matriarchies. Pre-historic matriarchies are spoken of as myth. ancianita Dec 2013 #32

Oh I disagree with somewhere between 80%-95% of the ideas as well. The thing is the OP had no stevenleser Dec 2013 #34

Except the way to foster healthy dialogue isn't to totally misrepresent one side of an argument Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #53

Yeah, but that wasn't his intent. People could have explained that without stevenleser Dec 2013 #54

Whether there's malice or not is neither here nor there. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #56

I disagree 100%. The tone and intent should change the way people respond. stevenleser Dec 2013 #57

I invite you to point out anything I said that constitutes an attack, please. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #58

I didn't say it was you doing so. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #59

Which side of the argument is misrepresented? And what are the 'sides'? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #173

I already answered that in my other posts in this thread Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #175

I see an opinion, politely and intelligently presented by the OP. Then I see what amount to attacks sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #190

Disagreement isn't an attack. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #192

Here's one example of what you call 'disagreement': sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #206

Except I'm talking specifically about myself and my responses on this thread. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #210

disagreement. not attack. and more than a few. lol. words matter. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #194

One example of 'disagreeent': sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #207

ya. you go tell that man where he is all wrong... get him. seabeyond Dec 2013 #208

Since it was a response to one of my posts, pretty quickly, since you asked. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #226

I agree and actually had my head in my hands while reading this Number23 Dec 2013 #233

You have become more discerning with age! PassingFair Dec 2013 #232

Freudian slip: Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #28

bwahahahaha! great catch! nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #48

No-one has suggested a "matriarchal society"; this is a straw man. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #7

Exactly. Who said anything about wanting a matriarchal society... boston bean Dec 2013 #18

Yep. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #19

+1 redqueen Dec 2013 #23

H2Oman as shit-stirrer. That's just... strange tkmorris Dec 2013 #50

Anyone who works that hard at missing what's going on here redqueen Dec 2013 #51

So now this is about H2O Man's character and not Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #95

There have been H2O Man Dec 2013 #68

It's possible the OP was making his own, different point. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #70

Nope, sorry. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #72

Oh cool! We're going to play the slice and dice words game now. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #74

Sorry... Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #78

All you've done so far is to express your own opinion. If those who sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #176

I never claimed I was the one being misrepresented. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #177

excellent point. and, point on. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #183

No, a majority doesn't think that, they think that those who tend to dominate these discussions sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #186

Right. H2O Man Dec 2013 #76

Wrong. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #90

No confirmation, no denial. redqueen Dec 2013 #113

You'd think Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #99

Right. H2O Man Dec 2013 #100

It wasn't missed. It wasn't irrelevant to your premise and not really what feminists want. boston bean Dec 2013 #101

Wow, dismiss much? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #127

wouldnt be a concern with some voices in diversity. the only time they participate in womens issues seabeyond Dec 2013 #128

That would be a "no" for inclusion, then. nt Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #140

reading comprehension. you read it wrong. no concerm. seabeyond Dec 2013 #144

Really? You know all that about the women in his community? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #146

ya. i get that. you had absolutely no tie in what so ever, lol seabeyond Dec 2013 #148

Do you believe the patriarchy exists? boston bean Dec 2013 #129

I believe Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #145

ok i take that as a no, you do not boston bean Dec 2013 #147

Yes it exists. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #150

so its a made up theory? boston bean Dec 2013 #151

Does inclusion of women matter? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #154

I see boston bean Dec 2013 #155

I answered your question. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #158

yes you did. boston bean Dec 2013 #159

So you didn't read the post referred to either? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #165

of course i agree with that, why wouldnt I? boston bean Dec 2013 #167

Why wouldn't you (agree with that) is what I wondered too. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #168

I am not surprised at all about the reaction of some in this thread. They believe only they are sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #179

or maybe we simply have a differing opinion than you, saw a problem with the OP and discussed it. seabeyond Dec 2013 #181

The insults began before I got here. I merely commented on them. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #184

no. we had differing views. we expressed. re read. seabeyond Dec 2013 #185

At this point, I'd settle for Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #197

I too responded to that OP. westerebus Dec 2013 #161

Well said BainsBane Dec 2013 #193

I tend to avoid all these "sexist" discussions. malthaussen Dec 2013 #8

In the computer world, programmers abstract ideas using "layers". lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #22

The problem there is this: malthaussen Dec 2013 #31

The layers I described are the ones which form public social policy. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #38

I tend to look more for the dung under the rosebush. malthaussen Dec 2013 #42

The only place people seem to have a "war of the sexes" is the internet. Dash87 Dec 2013 #10

There's a lot of truth to that. The medium itself leads to disagreement. Vox Moi Dec 2013 #30

You've never known a woman to complain about sexual harassment? redqueen Dec 2013 #39

That couldn't be further from what I'm saying. Dash87 Dec 2013 #55

It started because I posted a PSA about street harassment. redqueen Dec 2013 #60

Great Points, All ProfessorGAC Dec 2013 #65

Thanks for noticing. It is so disgusting that simply noticing the way this shit plays out redqueen Dec 2013 #66

You get a Damn Skippy for that. nt MrScorpio Dec 2013 #152

Well said! polly7 Dec 2013 #61

For me, it all began with the changeover to DU3 -- the new transparency & the ability to post pacalo Dec 2013 #75

lol Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #77

You're exactly right. But it won't change... Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #80

No, they won't change because they don't get it. pacalo Dec 2013 #82

Personally, I don't think that this quite gets to the heart of the issue. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #84

That you, or anyone, feels they are being "continually bludgeoned" over a couple JTFrog Dec 2013 #85

"Interesting" lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #86

I'm sorry I took your post at face value. n/t JTFrog Dec 2013 #87

True. The non-stop gaslighting IS worse Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #89

Funny, I've never seen the tone argument used on DU before. JTFrog Dec 2013 #81

Oooookay. pacalo Dec 2013 #83

Yes. If only they weren't so shrill. PassingFair Dec 2013 #231

I'm sure a lot of those threads started about gender issues are started Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #11

Your generalization about mothers, fathers and favorite children is bullshit. Scuba Dec 2013 #12

My thoughts exactly... kdmorris Dec 2013 #17

It can be said that all generalization is bullshit. zeemike Dec 2013 #27

Precisely. That's the bit that did it for me too. Really tone deaf and dumb. Number23 Dec 2013 #234

"No one benefits from the combination of ignorance and hatred " zeemike Dec 2013 #13

What you said! libodem Dec 2013 #21

That is a really long post! Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #14

I think this is a good discussion. Nevertheless, I have a criticism. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #16

Before I trash this thread along with the other 15,000 ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #20

This post poses a few problems for me. RainDog Dec 2013 #24

+1 n/t cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #37

That's how I see the post as well. I agree with your assessment. nt laundry_queen Dec 2013 #88

"a combination of ignorance and hatred" hfojvt Dec 2013 #25

Well-done, H2O Man, and good luck. Hekate Dec 2013 #26

Well, thank you! H2O Man Dec 2013 #29

nice... You've really done something here to make it all better. nt boston bean Dec 2013 #33

No need. H2O Man Dec 2013 #36

That was a tangential thread, and also a quite sexist one as well. boston bean Dec 2013 #41

The effort some go to in order to push an illusion of false balance is unreal. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #43

I wasn't praising H2O Man Dec 2013 #45

If you are trying to tell people that they can't use common life experience in discussion boston bean Dec 2013 #46

Please. H2O Man Dec 2013 #47

An appeal to emotion? That is what you are calling it. boston bean Dec 2013 #52

Well, sorry, but links are going to be needed to believe kdmorris Dec 2013 #96

If you don't agree with me, obviously I am not speaking for you. I speak for myself boston bean Dec 2013 #98

NO, I did not say it was your fault they were trying to piss you off kdmorris Dec 2013 #102

You and I see the world and what is happening on DU differently. boston bean Dec 2013 #103

That is true. We have drastically different world views kdmorris Dec 2013 #116

What courtesy am I not providing you. boston bean Dec 2013 #126

where did anyone say everyone. no one said everyone. never said everyone. the only saying everyone seabeyond Dec 2013 #107

"do not have to buy into the mens argument" kdmorris Dec 2013 #117

why do you not address making the statement we say EVERYONE. i would think you were relieved to know seabeyond Dec 2013 #121

"the feminists" kdmorris Dec 2013 #130

yes. i am. and still you did not address the point in like your third post, accusing feminists of seabeyond Dec 2013 #131

I believe I DID just address that issue kdmorris Dec 2013 #135

That is complete nonsense. boston bean Dec 2013 #136

I am not saying that... thanks for putting words in my mouth kdmorris Dec 2013 #143

I do not make any exclusion. boston bean Dec 2013 #149

You are being ridiculous kdmorris Dec 2013 #156

great! boston bean Dec 2013 #157

Awesome! kdmorris Dec 2013 #160

they usually are if you read them, imho. boston bean Dec 2013 #163

Speaking slower does not make you right kcr Dec 2013 #141

Hey, you don't have the right to frame how we speak for ourselves. boston bean Dec 2013 #132

Pure comedy gold! Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #137

There's a difference between disagreement and hostility. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #63

Sorry H2Oman but, no... intaglio Dec 2013 #35

Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Dec 2013 #40

Hadn't known about that one, will have to check n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #44

What's the title? RainDog Dec 2013 #153

I understood the Mosuo to be matriarchal grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #209

It's my understanding they're classified as matrilineal RainDog Dec 2013 #229

Kick and Rec Kingofalldems Dec 2013 #49

False equivalence is one of the driving factors in this argument, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #62

Thank you for this! hootinholler Dec 2013 #64

Why do you hate women so much? TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #67

wow. your post is so sensitive and understanding! boston bean Dec 2013 #73

Got anything to contribute? TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #104

I've been quite active all over this thread. See those postings. Should add plenty. nt boston bean Dec 2013 #105

Nope, don't see anything worth reading. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #110

arent you the man. wow... seabeyond Dec 2013 #112

Was anyone addressing you? TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #124

discussion board? dont flatter yourself, i do not remember any issue with you period, let alone seabeyond Dec 2013 #125

"irrational loudmouths" Matariki Dec 2013 #79

Both sexes have loudmouths. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #106

You chose your user name with considerable awareness Matariki Dec 2013 #108

Well, I guess that was easier than responding to my post's contents TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #111

If I believed for a moment that your post's content wasn't utterly disingenuous Matariki Dec 2013 #115

Your idea of equality clearly requires special treatment for women over men. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #120

LOL Matariki Dec 2013 #134

I'm glad you think the topic is to be taken lightly. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #138

I think you misunderstand what I'm taking lightly Matariki Dec 2013 #139

LOL! Perfect! HangOnKids Dec 2013 #189

I think you mistake dismissiveness for debating prowess TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #202

One of the wisest H2O Man Dec 2013 #93

Who was "bitter" to you on this thread? boston bean Dec 2013 #97

If you're referring to my post as bitter, you prove my point TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #204

Thanks for the interesting response. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #109

Thank you. H2O Man Dec 2013 #114

Agree n/t TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #123

This: Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #162

I can tell you with 100% confidence that DU feminists... Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #174

I largely agree with your statement TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #201

I wanted to quote poet Peter Blue Cloud's "How Coyote Got His Penis Back" Beringia Dec 2013 #69

Ha! Sounds familiar. It might be in.... Hekate Dec 2013 #71

Nice OP Waterman malaise Dec 2013 #91

Due to the fact that the institutions and mores of this society/culture Zorra Dec 2013 #92

Well said. H2O Man Dec 2013 #94

Does India have a "Dad God"? redqueen Dec 2013 #118

Excellent post. nt laundry_queen Dec 2013 #164

Sad to see the bomb squadron has Union Scribe Dec 2013 #119

Thanks. H2O Man Dec 2013 #122

k&r... spanone Dec 2013 #133

Nigel Tufnel: Well, so what? What's wrong with bein' sexy? K.O. Stradivarius Dec 2013 #142

I am a human being first, and a woman second. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #166

Well said. polly7 Dec 2013 #169

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #171

Couldn't agree more. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #172

Thank you. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #223

love your post scarletwoman and having a bit of the same discussion seabeyond Dec 2013 #180

Thank you, seabeyond. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #218

Beautiful post, thank you. Maybe you might make it an OP. I feel exactly as you described sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #182

Thank you, sabrina. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #219

"Humanarchy" / humanism is the 'I don't see color' of discussions of sexism and misogyny. redqueen Dec 2013 #187

Isn't misogyny at its core a failure/refusal to recognize women as fully human? scarletwoman Dec 2013 #215

Don't always agree with you... but that was seriously profound. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #205

Thanks, jeff. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #220

This is why I love Scarletwoman's post. They go to eleven! nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #213

LOL! I could not ask for a higher compliment! (nt) scarletwoman Dec 2013 #221

Beautiful. H2O Man Dec 2013 #214

I always appreciate your posts, waterman. scarletwoman Dec 2013 #222

Thanks! H2O Man Dec 2013 #224

Can I have your babies? hootinholler Dec 2013 #216

LOL scarletwoman Dec 2013 #217

Women are from Mars and men are from Venus, amiright? Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #170

What hogwash, did you even read the OP or just scan it looking for something to complain about? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #188

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #195

What a horrible thing to say. nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #196

However horrible it may seem, it is the truth. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #199

No, it's not. polly7 Dec 2013 #200

Thank you . Real person here. Bonobo Dec 2013 #211

+10000000000000000000000000 opiate69 Dec 2013 #236

Apparently you are now a "cohort" Bonobo Dec 2013 #212

Lol, a 'cohort'? Since I only speak for myself I'm wondering who my imaginary cohorts are? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #225

"one of the eager female cohorts"? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #228

So what I'm getting, having skimmed those linked threads, is that if a woman has an opinion sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #235

In talking about gender differences... Deep13 Dec 2013 #178

Rec for Ericch Fromm's The Sane Society. joshcryer Dec 2013 #191

what's wrong with being sexy arely staircase Dec 2013 #198

I'm bringing sexy back. Orrex Dec 2013 #203

You were doing ok until you got to this paragraph, which is way too much stereotyping for me to be uppityperson Dec 2013 #227

How many threads were there promoting matriarchy? Seems I missed them. bettyellen Dec 2013 #230