General Discussion

TBF

(35,080 posts)

19. I think the question to ask is whether this gov't

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:15 PM

Jan 2014

was ever for the people to begin with.

Let's look at facts: European land grab, displace indigenous folks & put on reservations, white male landowners vote, blacks 2/3 of a person, women not even that ....

And any legislation that came into being to help folks - 8 hour day, weekends, child labor laws - we socialists died for those laws (see Haymarket riot) and ultimately were run out of the country for them (see Palmer Raids).

Any and all civil rights legislation was passed after marching, protests, and yes a lot of deaths.

So, could "the democratic process" repair this country? Honestly it never has and I doubt it ever will.

Alternatives as I see them (very pie in the sky so bear with me here) - resource-based economy, libertarian communism, co-op type companies rather than capitalism ... there are alternatives we could work towards. Do I think we will get there without violence? I dunno, I see massive strikes as a necessity but I really think it's going to take labor action in more than one country to even being to attack global capitalism.

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Have we passed "the tipping point"? [View all] cali Jan 2014 OP

I'm throwing away my college degree to get a job in roofing so I can go out and buy an iPod adirondacker Jan 2014 #1

Well, you can make more money roofing than a college adjunct professor makes. Coyotl Jan 2014 #23

Does the democratic process include Storming of the Bastille? Downwinder Jan 2014 #2

Long ago. Scuba Jan 2014 #3

What ProSense Jan 2014 #4

until you can actually respond to anything cogently and without cali Jan 2014 #5

Why the cop out? ProSense Jan 2014 #8

You left out an inmportant one: "Dunno.... beats the hell out of me." Armstead Jan 2014 #6

I think DU has passed the tipping point snooper2 Jan 2014 #7

Oh, what ProSense Jan 2014 #9

It has nothing to do with "smelling the flowers" cali Jan 2014 #10

By all indicators everything has been getting better in this country snooper2 Jan 2014 #13

right. so there really isn't growing income disparity. so there really isn't more corporate cali Jan 2014 #40

"rational analysis" LordGlenconner Jan 2014 #52

Rec For Key of Awsome.... n/t PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #50

Eeyore Underground! FSogol Jan 2014 #76

Seems like some people here have, that's for sure. berni_mccoy Jan 2014 #11

First "the democratic process" would have to be fixed - so it's a chicken and egg scenario. polichick Jan 2014 #12

That's what I was thinking. The_Commonist Jan 2014 #27

there we have it Liberalynn Jan 2014 #77

And that is the crux of the matter....... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #58

hit.nail.head Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #66

In the literature, Pollyanna was right. She was not incorrectly optimistic, she was Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #14

+1000. Interesting perspective. nt adirondacker Jan 2014 #17

Indeed. It is those who believe that change is possible MineralMan Jan 2014 #25

Yep, Zinn did think that, but.......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #62

Well, since you don't know my idea of action, MineralMan Jan 2014 #63

True. But the only thing I've seen written from you ....... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #65

Well, you see, I consider that to be a very important thing MineralMan Jan 2014 #68

So I guess by your last sentence, you didn't vote for Ty Moore...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #71

I live in St. Paul. That's a different city. I don't vote in Minneapolis MineralMan Jan 2014 #73

Actually I did understand that.......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #79

I pay very little attention to city council MineralMan Jan 2014 #80

It's possible to say all is lost (the old things) and there is hope (in the new things) at the same BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #74

OK. MineralMan Jan 2014 #75

Indeed. Don't buy the doom and gloom because you impair yourself. Coyotl Jan 2014 #26

Great Post! nt Mojorabbit Jan 2014 #32

rec MerryBlooms Jan 2014 #35

I agree, but you'll get flamed on DU for making this point. closeupready Jan 2014 #46

I do not think so and I'll use the Tea Party as an example rustydog Jan 2014 #15

The Tea Party edhopper Jan 2014 #18

No they were infiltrated by and taken over by the Koch brothers rustydog Jan 2014 #29

I think we had the chance edhopper Jan 2014 #16

Spot on. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #37

I would say there are a good number of Democrats edhopper Jan 2014 #38

I don't see how a Progressive Democrat could ever be in a position of real power. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #43

I think it Obama edhopper Jan 2014 #47

I think the question to ask is whether this gov't TBF Jan 2014 #19

Unfortunately T, too many people don't know the history....... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #60

I didn't spell it all out -- TBF Jan 2014 #69

Yes I do know that......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #72

In 1932 the answer was "yes". n/t pampango Jan 2014 #20

But in 2014?..... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #59

And what alternative to the democratic process do you have in mind? MineralMan Jan 2014 #21

Of course, those who think so will click the OP in greater numbers, so ignore poll Coyotl Jan 2014 #22

'My bet, almost everyone who clicks yes on this poll hasn't ever registered a voter!' MineralMan Jan 2014 #24

Some people do DU after a day of working GOTV. Some people do DU instead of GOTV. Coyotl Jan 2014 #28

+1 MineralMan Jan 2014 #31

The question should be, "How many have passed the tipping point, and Coyotl Jan 2014 #36

people voting yes in this poll lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #30

Or maybe they do have a concept and don't think that will happen either Fumesucker Jan 2014 #39

2nd amendment remedies? lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #45

I prefer working class remedies.......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #61

Would it be such a bad thing if America became a "second rate power"? Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #33

not in my pov, but that has nothing to do with the op. at all. cali Jan 2014 #41

I realize that. But, I think that "exceptionalism" is part of the problem. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #44

I think that enough power to defend ourselves is sufficient. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #42

NO, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #34

God I hope not, or we will come to the tipping point of French revolution solutions. grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #48

it certainly seems to look that way - but in many respects the world has gotten better and in many Douglas Carpenter Jan 2014 #49

This is not remotely close to the important tipping point which seems to be universally ignored HERVEPA Jan 2014 #51

In this lifetime? Probably not. tblue Jan 2014 #53

As long as the people have the vote, there's hope Distant Quasar Jan 2014 #54

Good luck with that. 1/2 or more don't know the 3 branches of government. We apparently have lonestarnot Jan 2014 #82

Yes, lack of civic engagement is a big problem Distant Quasar Feb 2014 #86

Citizen's United, electronic voting, gerrymandered districts, a compromised meda & voter apathy. CrispyQ Jan 2014 #55

The people in this country are so far beyond fucked up most don't even know their fucked up. Larry Ogg Jan 2014 #56

It can be done. But all parties must agree to remove money from the political process. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #57

How would you get to such a "But"? If you could do that we wouldn't have many of the other issues TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #64

If the idea of publicly financed campaigns were made an issue by political candidates Enthusiast Jan 2014 #78

I agree. woo me with science Jan 2014 #81

Well done! Enthusiast Feb 2014 #84

The system has been broken for a long, long time. bigwillq Jan 2014 #67

the people need to re-appropriate the political process BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #70

It's darkest before the dawn. We're on the verge of winning in ways that will shock the capitalists. reformist2 Jan 2014 #83

WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?!? hootinholler Feb 2014 #85

"Society"? "Government"? Hah. If only that were all. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #87

So many "clever" responses to the OP. Yet not one of them is addressing the points you've Guy Whitey Corngood Feb 2014 #89

Collective shortsightedness and misplaced priorities Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #90

this is a lot harder to face. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #91

Good question. (no text) Quantess Feb 2014 #88