Without an understanding of the very complex and varied set of conditions, what use is it? As (Reply #82)

In the discussion thread: Yes, acknowledging privilege is hard work. [View all]

Fri Feb 28, 2014, 03:11 AM

El_Johns (1,805 posts)

82. Without an understanding of the very complex and varied set of conditions, what use is it? As

an introduction to the topic, it starts things on the wrong foot.

I don't know the motives of the person you're talking about, and neither do you.

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114 replies	Author	Time	Post
Yes, acknowledging privilege is hard work. [View all]	La Lioness Priyanka	Feb 2014	OP
Hear, hear!	KamaAina	Feb 2014	#1
Hear, hear!	Laelth	Feb 2014	#2
A good example is Trayvon Martin	Cali_Democrat	Feb 2014	#3
yup. to understand how that was racism, is to also aknowledge	La Lioness Priyanka	Feb 2014	#9
But not the privilege of avoiding being raped n/t	eridani	Feb 2014	#42
Yup	Cali_Democrat	Feb 2014	#56
yeah, he might have just been raped instead.	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#45
"...I don't get harassed for being queer. However, my wife does."	Iggo	Feb 2014	#4
Your voice is one if the many voices quickly combining into a roar that won't be silenced	JJChambers	Feb 2014	#5
Even harder is working to correct those giving privilege	seveneyes	Feb 2014	#6
not really. we can all admit that racism is bad.	La Lioness Priyanka	Feb 2014	#8
Both Racism and giving priviledge are bad	seveneyes	Feb 2014	#10
How about just eliminating disadvantage?	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#28
Bravo! nt	MrScorpio	Feb 2014	#7
AWESOME OP. The new BS meme is only young snotty white folks call it "white privilege" . LOL.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#11
Which does, unfortunately, have quite a bit of truth to it.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#15
It's a term coined by academics to describe a phenomenon..... and many many people who discuss race	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#18
"Yet you both spout off as if you know better." And you do? nt	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#21
You definitely do not know better than the African American activist community or a diverse group of	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#23
I'm afraid if anyone's been trying to "control" anything here, bettyellen, it's yourself.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#25
You are the one hoping people reshape their conversations more to your liking.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#27
"I will not speculate why you think your discomfort should be issue #1 for anyone else but you."	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#29
Um, no- people already DO use the word, and I think that is just fine. See how that works?	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#30
You may think it's fine.....	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#32
"some progressives even" say it ain't so Joe- you've left your bubble and talked to a few? WOW.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#36
Nice try. But no dice.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#39
Who is this "we" Joe? Because I don't see anyone interested in your permission or input, LOL.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#43
Never asked to grant "permission". You're just tugging at straws now, Betty.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#46
Of course, and we never find "young snotty white folks" in academia, do we? n/t	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#49
sound like classic RW anti-intellectual bias, LOL....	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#51
You're bringing your own strawman to life.	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#53
It's someone else's strawman- and "even a few progressives" like it, LOL.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#54
"I can't help it if you actually took the bait!" An admission of trolling, perhaps? ;-)	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#72
I mocked the idea- but you guys took it up as if it was worthwhile, LOL.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#73
Yep, it was a troll.....just like 99% of the other stuff you've posted lately. nt	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#76
I became most aware of my privilege living in a majority black city	BainsBane	Feb 2014	#12
In what way is "being aware of your privilege" materially different from acknowledging racism?	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#13
It isn't about blame.	LiberalAndProud	Feb 2014	#17
I understand what you're saying, but why do we need to call it "privilege"?	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#31
Honestly, I can't think of a better word.	LiberalAndProud	Feb 2014	#37
This is conversation	stevil	Feb 2014	#80
Great post. And I'm sorry your family has had to go through this.	nomorenomore08	Feb 2014	#92
No offense, but maybe the question itself is "unsatisfactory" -	nomorenomore08	Feb 2014	#91
I would separate the two issues	Capt. Obvious	Feb 2014	#19
"magic words" WOW- who the heck would want to have a conversation with someone so contemptuous?	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#20
"with someone so contemptuous?....And so controlling." Really?	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#24
"Contemptous and controlling"?	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#41
When you don't actually understand a concept(see"guilt") it's time to stop trying to educate others.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#47
So you want to quibble over his word choices	Waiting For Everyman	Feb 2014	#100
Quibble over his hostile words. Nope. They are what they are. Telling.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#105
Good point.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#26
Frankly, I think that racial privilege isn't necessarily a bad framework to visualize the problem.	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#44
Acknowledging racism is acknowledging the harm done to others.	jeff47	Feb 2014	#55
"Acknowledging racism is acknowledging the harm done to others." That much is true.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#60
It's a distinction without a difference.	lumberjack_jeff	Feb 2014	#61
Then why are you so desperate to bury discussions about privilege?	jeff47	Feb 2014	#113
Well said, thanks. nt	Zorra	Feb 2014	#14
I hope this thread gets more recs than the other one	Capt. Obvious	Feb 2014	#16
K&R - thank you.	myrna minx	Feb 2014	#22
It's so weird that DU seems to have	Texasgal	Feb 2014	#33
Weird?	Capt. Obvious	Feb 2014	#35
well apprently some are discussing this with conservative folk - and asking them what words make	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#38
Not just "conservative folk", Betty. The public in general.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#40
"a lot of people have had issues with the term, including some progressives even" Mmmm, okaaay.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#52
I'm afraid you've only outted yourself, Betty.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#59
I am out and proud as far as disliking narrow minded conservative doublespeak. Those that engage in	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#65
"And that opinion is out of mainstream progressive thought" I'm afraid not.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#68
Gosh, you need to get out more. Maybe go back to school? 3 years at DU, LOL....	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#74
Are you honestly kidding me? nt	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#75
Not at all- if you heard of it/ believed in it 5 years ago, and have not heard much since...	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#77
Well, you said it as if you believed it was for certain....not that it was possible.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#81
I was aware of politics and social issues pretty young I suppose. And though my family and church	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#83
I think most everyone tends to exaggerate their own problems and downplay others'.	nomorenomore08	Feb 2014	#94
It's acknowledging that one receives a benefit from other's racism.	jeff47	Feb 2014	#57
Some white people of all ideological stripes resent talking about race.	geek tragedy	Feb 2014	#107
"To understand oppression, one needs to understand the opposite of oppression (privilege)."	Zenlitened	Feb 2014	#34
how is privilege the opposite of oppression"	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#48
"to insist that the discussions be..." is how people here derail. They derail, then blame the word.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#50
"it's us controlling the discussion?" It most certainly is!	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#62
How would you frame the discussion?	LiberalAndProud	Feb 2014	#63
One way I'd do it is just by being straightforward.	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#64
Oooh, pithy. Replace one word with a woefully incomlete laundry list. Yeah, maybe not.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#66
Well.....I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree then. nt	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#67
Ridiculous comment. If you're trying to get people to understand what you mean, the pithy	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#78
it makes no sense at all not to use a phrase only because it needs a super long explaination-	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#79
Without an understanding of the very complex and varied set of conditions, what use is it? As	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#82
You have a completely useful term for something- that aptly describes a complicated concept-	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#84
Social scientists are not the population you claim to want to educate and enlighten.	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#85
It is a pretty familair term, and you are allowed to explain it when needed!	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#86
I don't have a hard time with it at all. I just think it's useless as the educational tool	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#87
I think the word is a necesary part of any deep conversation about race and gender issues.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#89
I think it promotes superficial conversations about race and also misunderstanding about race.	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#95
that's pretty funny. yeah it's racist to acknowledge the many facets of racism. Okay Bye!!	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#97
But it doesn't acknowledge the many facets of racism. That's why it leads to superficial	El_Johns	Feb 2014	#98
Discrimination is one word. nt	Waiting For Everyman	Feb 2014	#88
that is not at all interchangable, try again?	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#90
True, "discrimination" is more accurate.	Waiting For Everyman	Feb 2014	#93
it describes a different thing- and is a smaller, more quantifiable part of explaining privilege.	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#96
Your statement to El_Johns is simply not true.	Waiting For Everyman	Feb 2014	#99
So... You're rubber, too bad so sad and those who seek to stop some words here	bettyellen	Feb 2014	#104
Man of goodwill. That's you.	LiberalAndProud	Feb 2014	#69
Thanks, I do try. nt =)	AverageJoe90	Feb 2014	#70
k&r	Starry Messenger	Feb 2014	#58
K&R	Solly Mack	Feb 2014	#71
groups are not really oppressed	hfojvt	Feb 2014	#101
they are still oppressed by their race in a way that a similarly place white person is not. nt	La Lioness Priyanka	Feb 2014	#103
"a similarly placed white person"	hfojvt	Feb 2014	#109
Having 20% fewer mines to dodge really is a privilege	kwassa	Feb 2014	#108
it's not	hfojvt	Feb 2014	#110
If the white guy has to cross a minefield with 80 mines ...	kwassa	Feb 2014	#111
This is a quote by BainsBane	JustAnotherGen	Feb 2014	#102
K&R for my friend, Lionness, and for truth.	closeupready	Feb 2014	#106
I guess one would need to believe that privilege is really the opposite of oppression	Redford	Feb 2014	#112
a job is only one aspect of life.	La Lioness Priyanka	Mar 2014	#114

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