Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: We can applaud media's greater NSA scrutiny AND think that Snowden's resume/timing/motives [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)11. Completely
"As to Obama, he pushed to make BushCo's illegal spying legal, albeit unconstitutional and expanded it. It's naive to think he isn't for this sort of thing when he pushed for it and expanded it. "
...inaccurate.
Bush was actually spying on Americans, Obama did not push to make that "legal."
The program was in fact a wide range of covert surveillance activities authorized by President Bush in the aftermath of 9/11. At that time, White House officials, led by Vice President Dick Cheney, had become convinced that FISA court procedures were too cumbersome and time-consuming to permit U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement agencies to quickly identify possible Qaeda terrorists inside the country. (Cheney's chief counsel, David Addington, referred to the FISA court in one meeting as that "obnoxious court," according to former assistant attorney general Jack Goldsmith.) Under a series of secret orders, Bush authorized the NSA for the first time to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mails between the United States and a foreign country without any court review. The code name for the NSA collection activitiesunknown to all but a tiny number of officials at the White House and in the U.S. intelligence communitywas "Stellar Wind."
http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print
http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print
Note, this is inside the U.S. and involves bypassing the FISA court to actually "eavesdrop."
Republicans fought to make that legal, and succeeded in doing so before Democrats were able to force an expiration of the law.
From a post last year:
There have been a number of media reports using the same Obama quote to basically claim that he once called out Bush, but then embraced the policy. They are intentionally conflating a quote about the PAA with his position on the 2008 FISA amendments, which he voted for. They are not the same thing. The PAA was a Republican effort to absolve Bush.
While the article mentions that Obama voted against the Protect America Act (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00309), there is no mention of the fact that the Act expired in early 2008.
Senator Mitch McConnell introduced the act on August 1, 2007, during the 110th United States Congress. On August 3, it was passed in the Senate with an amendment, 6028 (record vote number 309).[12] On August 4, it passed the House of Representatives 227-183 (roll number 836).[12] On August 5, it was signed by President Bush, becoming Public Law No. 110-055. On February 17, 2008, it expired due to sunset provision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Legislative_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Legislative_history
The amendments to FISA made by the Act expire 180 days after enactment, except that any order in effect on the date of enactment remains in effect until the date of expiration of such order and such orders can be reauthorized by the FISA Court.[38] The Act expired on February 17, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_America_Act_of_2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_America_Act_of_2007
Here's Bush's statement at the time: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/02/20080214-4.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
113 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
We can applaud media's greater NSA scrutiny AND think that Snowden's resume/timing/motives [View all]
blm
Mar 2014
OP
I agree, 100%. But the fools who criticize Obama think Obama created the NSA's PRISM machine...
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#4
But the smart people who criticize Obama know that he expanded BushCo's illegal spying
cui bono
Mar 2014
#10
And furthermore, they elected him with the expectation that he would put an end to
Demeter
Mar 2014
#36
You believe he's been apprised of everything CIA/NSA has been doing, even by private firms selected
blm
Mar 2014
#79
I admit I didn't read your whole post. After seeing all your LOLs and totally rude
cui bono
Mar 2014
#12
I told you, after seeing mostly LOLs and rude posts trying to ridicule people with no substance
cui bono
Mar 2014
#22
LOL - I think Obama's is one of the weakest presidencies in modern history. I think you must
blm
Mar 2014
#38
What's made it so weak in your opinion? Repub obstructionism or the goals set by the admin?
Number23
Mar 2014
#52
Both - I think getting along with opposition party should have been shelved as a goal
blm
Mar 2014
#70
I agree. I wish there WAS a way for Dems to accrue the power base needed to confront this
blm
Mar 2014
#94
No, the point is to force you to stop pretending such and go after the ones with the power
TheKentuckian
Mar 2014
#107
Clinton accrued more power in his tenure than Obama has and STILL won't confront them.
blm
Mar 2014
#108
Excuses to continue the pretense. Push them to lawfully take the power or prove that it
TheKentuckian
Mar 2014
#111
I agree - Fvck the excuses - say those of us lefties who choose to stay out of the arena
blm
Mar 2014
#112
Keep in mind there would be no 'greater media scrutiny' to applaud without Snowden n/t
whatchamacallit
Mar 2014
#37
Which is exactly what I wrote in my post. Keep in mind everything else, too. There is ONE family
blm
Mar 2014
#44
"the last few decades of BushInc" include 6 yrs of ObamaInc., 8 yrs of ClintonInc.
delrem
Mar 2014
#50
I think you don't 'get' it at all. It would take you months to get through the full BCCI report
blm
Mar 2014
#72
I feel that if you can't wrap your brain around what was said, only focused research can help you
blm
Mar 2014
#78
You are acting as apologist for the rampant lack of knowledge about the presidency and
blm
Mar 2014
#81
The BCCI report gives NO excuse for Obama, or any other president, to claim powerlessness
delrem
Mar 2014
#83
You're showing you're vastly under-informed. Get thee to National Security Archives, and....
blm
Mar 2014
#85