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phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
43. Wow. No it isn't.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:51 PM
Mar 2014

I mean, what you say is true when it comes to polling people on individual policy stances. But its not true when it comes to voting patterns. Also, a lot of people may favor a liberal solution for a particular issue, but they don't DEMAND it. And many of those people will accept a more conservative solution and be just fine with it. And a lot of that has to do with having an electorate where a minority are politically literate enough to understand the fundamental differences.

Furthermore, I believe a lot of Americans tack toward the center because it makes them feel good, like they are being fair and rejecting status quo labels. The people that do that are misguided at best. But they do it nonetheless. These things matter. So no, the "reality canard" is not fucking bullshit. Its reality. And we won't get things like single payer or the other things we know we should have until the electorate comes around and demands it with their voting habits. That's reality. I know its a huge inconvenience, but that's the way things are.

DU was for change, not progressivism... [View all] WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 OP
"The Obama/Clinton liberals aren't progressives". Horse shit. phleshdef Mar 2014 #1
Cool, then you vote for Hillary Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #2
If she runs and wins the nomination I will. phleshdef Mar 2014 #4
Who will you vote for Control-Z Mar 2014 #9
Irrelevant. I'll take this because it could easily be directed at me :) WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #45
Many of YOU? Control-Z Mar 2014 #128
Bullshit on your horseshit... truebrit71 Mar 2014 #3
First off, lumping Obama and Clinton together doesn't even begin to form an argument. phleshdef Mar 2014 #10
...and you keep on pretending that Obama, the self-described moderate republican, is a progressive.. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #13
He never described himself as a moderate Republican. phleshdef Mar 2014 #26
You may have moved right, many "progressives" have not and will not. PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #76
When in the fuck did I say I moved right? I didn't move right. Public ideological acceptance did. phleshdef Mar 2014 #80
"Public ideological acceptance did." PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #82
"Can you provide proof of this assertion?" Yes, look at election history over the past 30 years. phleshdef Mar 2014 #84
I do not consider that proof of a general move to the right by the public. PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #88
Not true. There are still true left wing candidates to choose from... phleshdef Mar 2014 #90
The job of those of us who are active in politics is to lead our country toward a better future. JDPriestly Mar 2014 #97
"Now, I suppose you will accuse me of having my hair on fire and being an extremists"... No I won't phleshdef Mar 2014 #98
If we didn't have so much money for campaigns, we would have a better informed electorate JDPriestly Mar 2014 #168
Most of the "moderate Republicans" of Teddy's era-- Jackpine Radical Mar 2014 #106
Right on. The history of the constant ideological morphing between our 2 biggest factions... phleshdef Mar 2014 #107
Fascinating but it is not very relevant to 1980's Republicans dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #124
Well theres overlap. The 1980s saw the beginning of the end for Republicans... phleshdef Mar 2014 #126
But he did say 80's dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #134
When did the president Control-Z Mar 2014 #12
Here you go.. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #15
The 80s St. ronnie years. Autumn Mar 2014 #170
Here alsame Mar 2014 #17
Which is still taken completely out of historical context. phleshdef Mar 2014 #24
?? I didn't take anything alsame Mar 2014 #32
Actually he never said the words "I am a moderate Republican". phleshdef Mar 2014 #37
I don't understand HOW you do that.... I'm in awe... bvar22 Mar 2014 #44
Moderate Republican policies like the EPA and OSHA? phleshdef Mar 2014 #46
Was Ted Kennedy against all of that? dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #129
Of course he wasn't. You are missing my point. And its far from ridiculous. phleshdef Mar 2014 #131
You should probably re-read the post I was responding to dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #136
You misunderstood where I was coming from in that post. phleshdef Mar 2014 #141
No, I also fought against them dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #147
" though that isn't what Obama was doing" phleshdef Mar 2014 #166
And I voted against moderate republicans then. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #50
As I told another poster, I don't care who you voted for. Thats irrelevant to the point. phleshdef Mar 2014 #62
Because you so understand nuance? (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #74
In this situation, I most certainly do. phleshdef Mar 2014 #75
Donīt make me link (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #93
I believe you spelled "think" wrong. phleshdef Mar 2014 #94
You are so funny malokvale77 Mar 2014 #100
Hahahahahahahaha. Seriously? Thats your big trump card in this discussion? phleshdef Mar 2014 #102
Nuance does not depend on your definition of conversation malokvale77 Mar 2014 #112
No, I did not insinuate "left wingers were shit stirrers". phleshdef Mar 2014 #113
I asked you a simple question malokvale77 Mar 2014 #132
Its a stupid question thats worded in a very loaded way. phleshdef Mar 2014 #139
OK... malokvale77 Mar 2014 #148
Either your question was intended for a yes or no answer, or... phleshdef Mar 2014 #164
You need to stop digging your hole. Control-Z Mar 2014 #159
My hole? malokvale77 Mar 2014 #161
Yep. I can. (nt) Control-Z Mar 2014 #162
No, you can not (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #163
If it were proveable, I'd bet $$$ on intentional. phleshdef Mar 2014 #165
And here..... ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #21
but but but he DIDN'T say the exact phrase that he was a moderate republican frylock Mar 2014 #42
Yes, because saying "I'd have been CONSIDERED a moderate Repub in the 1980s" is the same Number23 Mar 2014 #153
Yeah. That's why I asked. Control-Z Mar 2014 #156
You are exactly right. Number23 Mar 2014 #158
Middle of the Road Centrist is exactly correct. bvar22 Mar 2014 #23
He was basically saying "Eisenhower" Republican. phleshdef Mar 2014 #38
More BS. bvar22 Mar 2014 #47
Really? What was the HUGE difference? Ike didn't lock Japanese people up in internment camps? phleshdef Mar 2014 #48
What institutional change are you thinking is "pie in the sky"? theaocp Mar 2014 #6
Passing single payer when there wasn't enough political desire for it among the elected. phleshdef Mar 2014 #22
Perfect. You are a progressive that doesnt ignore reality. I think that says a lot rhett o rick Mar 2014 #28
I'm against indefinite detention. I believe the TPP is crap but also overblown. phleshdef Mar 2014 #66
the reality canard is fucking bullshit.. frylock Mar 2014 #40
Wow. No it isn't. phleshdef Mar 2014 #43
I'm a progressive who voted for Obama in 2008. Maedhros Mar 2014 #5
And he seemed to campaign against the idea of the Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #56
He got elected [n/t] Maedhros Mar 2014 #61
Not debating what the party stands for is like a surgeon throwing out the diagnosis before surgery. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #7
And there are some who think 'debate' means insults and childish name-calling. randome Mar 2014 #11
So? "Childish" or not, debate within the party is essential to its being more than "not as bad". Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #19
I would have thought we'd progressed since then. Perhaps not. randome Mar 2014 #34
Lol, racist homophobes, the founders were. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #60
Exactly! ctsnowman Mar 2014 #67
And there are some who think 'debate' means insults and childish name-calling. bvar22 Mar 2014 #30
That was me before I joined DU in 2005! WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #14
If Warren is the progressive wing ... frazzled Mar 2014 #8
Warren was a Republican until pretty recently... polichick Mar 2014 #16
Not so much WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #18
She hasn't done it. frazzled Mar 2014 #25
Thanks for posting this. (nt) Control-Z Mar 2014 #20
Warren on "Too Big To Fail". Has Obama or Clinton ever said anything... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #27
Talk, talk ... frazzled Mar 2014 #31
Hillary: Beating up the finance industry needs to stop. (talk, talk, words, words) WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #65
I was talking about Obama, not Clinton frazzled Mar 2014 #69
You don't even know that HILLARY said that in December at a Goldman Sachs fundraiser??? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #71
I'm not rich and have nothing to lose, but that doesn't describe everyone at DU... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #81
They list Chuck Schumer as the most liberal? progressoid Mar 2014 #33
I guess he voted right on the specific set of bills frazzled Mar 2014 #39
That made me literally laugh out loud malokvale77 Mar 2014 #91
And not Bernie Sanders. progressoid Mar 2014 #111
Sad times we live in malokvale77 Mar 2014 #119
The Consumer Protection Bureau ctsnowman Mar 2014 #72
Great news ... frazzled Mar 2014 #73
I was surprised ctsnowman Mar 2014 #77
k&r for Elizabeth Warren. Laelth Mar 2014 #29
First, ProSense Mar 2014 #35
Hey, I just got here, and I'd like to ask what are we talking about here? November is coming up on genwah Mar 2014 #36
DU was for TRUTH. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #41
I am, but truth also involves research nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #52
I've noticed that TRUTH is partisan at DU. That's disappointing. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #53
"President Obama is a piece of shit.' yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #58
Wish I could recommend this post mcar Mar 2014 #70
Here is the thing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #78
Another thing: There are adult ways of dealing with disappointment and then therez... yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #83
I am giving you the data nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #87
Calling President Obama a piece of shit is certainly gunna help the cause. yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #92
Alas, you are talking of a partisan liberal editorial writer here nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #114
Said partisan liberal editorial writer seriously misfired his high dudgeon. yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #116
Yup, la, la, la nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #118
I'm in no need of a fortune teller. I see reality quite well.n/t yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #120
Funny nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #123
Well, then mebbie said partisan liberal editorial writer ... yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #127
You know what? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #130
In this instance of reality, mebbie said partisan liberal editorial writer... yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #138
Maybe it is time to say our goodbyes. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #142
Best of luck with your studies. n/t yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #144
You shouldnīt be so hard on yourself (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #104
Clever. yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #110
Some of that just has to do with the notion that "centrist", "independent", "moderate", etc... phleshdef Mar 2014 #96
^^this^^ malokvale77 Mar 2014 #143
I know. I hear it often in the field as a reporter. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #146
It would be laughable... malokvale77 Mar 2014 #150
I know. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #152
I understand (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #154
Mebbie you should inform them that tharze no magic incantation yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #149
magic incantations? malokvale77 Mar 2014 #157
Is that an actual quote from Will? malokvale77 Mar 2014 #95
Parse away. yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #99
You did the parsing (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #101
Only if you think "used car salesman" ameliorates the sentiment. n/t yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #105
Any thing can be taken out of context malokvale77 Mar 2014 #115
Nonresponsive. n/t yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #117
Not my fault you didnīt understand my actual response (nt) malokvale77 Mar 2014 #121
Wow, clever again. yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #122
Every bit as clever as you? malokvale77 Mar 2014 #135
No. n/t yowzayowzayowza Mar 2014 #140
No? malokvale77 Mar 2014 #151
"Sadly, truth has become toxic around here." ProSense Mar 2014 #59
Ask Jason Leopold about that one. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #63
Oh that kerfluffle wasn't nearly as unifying as anger at SHE who must not be named HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #133
Dude, I don't think you need to be preaching to anyone about "being toxic" at this juncture. phleshdef Mar 2014 #68
Stop trying to distract from Benghazi Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #155
The truth. What holds us back from real change are those….. Bonhomme Richard Mar 2014 #49
Obama and Clinton are Third Way. Which means NO CHANGE. Well, none that we'd like, anyway... blkmusclmachine Mar 2014 #51
"Progressive" and "liberal" are relative terms. Many DUers are on the far left of the spectrum, pnwmom Mar 2014 #54
And the result of all of this discussion among Democrats will be a loss of the Senate and Squinch Mar 2014 #55
Anyone remember why they put the "Underground" in the name. kentuck Mar 2014 #57
You can't have progress without change ... GeorgeGist Mar 2014 #64
I wouldn't vote for Hillary, she is a conservative. Todays_Illusion Mar 2014 #79
If we are to draw a line between liberals and progressives, many progressives aren't "liberals" BlueStreak Mar 2014 #85
I'm all for fixing root causes too. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #103
I would rather catch things structurally and only subsidize where all else fails BlueStreak Mar 2014 #125
I am a proud, long standing member of the Democratic party............. wandy Mar 2014 #86
Obama and Hillary are neo-liberals. clg311 Mar 2014 #89
You know neoliberal was the name of a free market banking movement in the 30's right? HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #137
I will not vote for another Clinton......... BlueJac Mar 2014 #108
I wouldn't label them as anything other than corporates d_legendary1 Mar 2014 #109
Clintonism was the real conservatism. They balanced the budget, slashed New Deal regulation Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #145
That's it in a nutshell. Brewinblue Mar 2014 #160
The "easy" way is full voter participation. gulliver Mar 2014 #167
So, David Sirota says Progressive dog Mar 2014 #169
I want to just make a statement about one part in your op. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #171
I wasn't here in the early days, but absolutely agree with your OP's premises. Scuba Mar 2014 #172
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