I'll give AA props for a few things (Reply #200)

In the discussion thread: Alcoholics Anonymous has a terrible success rate, addiction expert finds [View all]

Mon Mar 31, 2014, 11:52 AM

200. I'll give AA props for a few things

AA doesn't have psychiatrists performing psych evals and prescribing meds. Today, tens of thousands of AAers are on psych meds. If a friend of a friend's cousin told you that she was at an AA meeting and someone said poo about medication, she can simply go to another meeting.

I'll give AA props for the following:

1. AA accepts everyone from all SES, don't need insurance or a significant bank - good luck getting help if you're poor and uninsured!

2. support group - for many, it's the first time they get to meet and talk to others with same (psych) issues; people discover they are not alone

3. program of action - people who don't take action won't fare well; most people don't want to make changes, so most people don't fare well

4. role models - people with long-time sobriety are role models for newcomers

5. you can find a meeting at all times worldwide when you need support - good luck replicating this with your treatment center...

get ready for the punchline:

YOUR TREATMENT CENTER WILL RECOMMEND AA

Maybe many of you don't travel for work or travel alone, much. It's somewhere to go when you're feeling vulnerable, either because you're lonely or your coworkers are at a bar getting hammered.

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213 replies	Author	Time	Post
Alcoholics Anonymous has a terrible success rate, addiction expert finds [View all]	steve2470	Mar 2014	OP
Yes, AA or NA alone will not help an abuser stop using.	gerogie2	Mar 2014	#1
we see this with teens in recovery constantly	elehhhhna	Mar 2014	#159
IMO, the reason AA is not effective is primarily because of their "Powerlessness" teaching and...	DesertDiamond	Mar 2014	#2
I do not believe that is what AA teaches, at all	cally	Mar 2014	#3
Exactly, cally. That idea (powerless over alcohol) is crucial to AA and their approach to recovery.	anneboleyn	Mar 2014	#22
Exactly	Bobbie Jo	Mar 2014	#59
You seem to not understand how AA works.	NCTraveler	Mar 2014	#195
Very interesting. My father was a lifelong alcoholic who managed to stay away from	enough	Mar 2014	#4
a guess here....	steve2470	Mar 2014	#9
Seems very plausible. So why aren't we treating alcoholism with some simililar medication? (nt)	enough	Mar 2014	#23
link for you	steve2470	Mar 2014	#25
What do you expect when you treat addiction not as a disease but as a moral failing?	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#5
AA does not treat addiction as a moral failing, it teaches that alcohol is so powerful	Fred Sanders	Mar 2014	#10
Exactly!	Andy823	Mar 2014	#18
Forgive me, but.. bullshit.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#27
Addiction is not a psychosis, you are mixing your apples and oranges, though a psychosis	Fred Sanders	Mar 2014	#30
Both are mental conditions.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#33
No need for the angry man persona. Someone is giving you wrong information, read and	Fred Sanders	Mar 2014	#38
I've read the big book, and am friends with researchers who study addiction.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#45
And you are still clueless.	cordelia	Mar 2014	#50
Talk to psychiatric researchers who study addiction and addiction treatment.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#54
When I quit drinking 25 years ago	AgingAmerican	Mar 2014	#151
Addiction is not actually a mental condition, it's a physical one.	Spider Jerusalem	Mar 2014	#81
Untreated DTs are 50% fatal.	Warpy	Mar 2014	#111
Yeah, back in the day of my Father and his hardass old-school AA Buddies, it was taken as gospel	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#185
Yeah, I had an uncle like that, the 50s were that weird	Warpy	Mar 2014	#186
I believe he references it obliquely in the book- the "so called belladonna cure"	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#187
Alcoholism is NOT a mental disease,	elleng	Mar 2014	#53
That's why I said 'addiction', rather than 'alcoholism'.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#57
The link discusses both alcoholism and drug addiction,	elleng	Mar 2014	#61
Actually AA teaches alcoholism is a disease.	boston bean	Mar 2014	#32
Yes, one that is incurable, and only they offer an effective treatment.	X_Digger	Mar 2014	#34
You don't have a single clue what you're talking about. Seriously.	cordelia	Mar 2014	#43
You are so misinformed.	840high	Mar 2014	#63
just stop, you are misinformed	elehhhhna	Mar 2014	#160
What is your problem	astral	Mar 2014	#175
I would only take issue with where you say "it may be only one way of many other ways"... There is	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#181
Please do not discuss AA. Thanks. nt.	NCTraveler	Mar 2014	#197
AA teaches alcoholism is a "spiritual malady."	RandoLoodie	Mar 2014	#189
AA also recognizes alcoholism as a disease.	cordelia	Mar 2014	#191
pretty much wrong..	boston bean	Mar 2014	#192
Page 64, Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book)	RandoLoodie	Mar 2014	#196
That is simply not true.	840high	Mar 2014	#62
AA has literally saved the lives of two close relatives of mine.	senseandsensibility	Mar 2014	#6
exactly, no money for others!	hollysmom	Mar 2014	#141
One huge problem is....	Wounded Bear	Mar 2014	#7
Isn't that key "In the end, addicts end up associating with nobody but other addicts"	Jesus Malverde	Mar 2014	#65
You've never been part of an adult sports league	XemaSab	Mar 2014	#74
Good point...nt	Jesus Malverde	Mar 2014	#76
Alcohol is a poison and the most dangerous drug ever in existence, due to both	Fred Sanders	Mar 2014	#8
Thank you!	raccoon	Mar 2014	#119
May I add that I love booze?	AngryAmish	Mar 2014	#134
.......	steve2470	Mar 2014	#137
Seems they are counting everyone who ever went to a meeting	cthulu2016	Mar 2014	#11
Yes	Andy823	Mar 2014	#26
The basic premise is that you are an alcoholic and that this cannot be cured...	Demo_Chris	Mar 2014	#12
my 2 pennies	steve2470	Mar 2014	#13
One definition of "alcoholism" would specify actual physical dependency as a requirement.	nomorenomore08	Mar 2014	#165
It worked for me	Andy823	Mar 2014	#14
excellent post nt	steve2470	Mar 2014	#16
Thanks.	Andy823	Mar 2014	#24
All you say is true for many, but for many it was the mental illness that came before	Fred Sanders	Mar 2014	#31
Thanks for sharing.	840high	Mar 2014	#64
thank you, with love and gratitude from Texas	elehhhhna	Mar 2014	#163
They need to get the god shit out of there.	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#15
There is no God shit in there.	Andy823	Mar 2014	#20
Sorry, but that lord's prayer at the end of the meeting alone pushes a lot of Atheists out the door.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#35
Unfortunately, many of the other programs do not have many meetings each week	cally	Mar 2014	#42
A few points. One, regular meetings work and help SOME people.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#46
Some don't like the lords prayer	Andy823	Mar 2014	#51
And some people are walking, talking, internet-posting proof that other ways work BETTER, for them	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#56
In 38 years, I've never been to a meeting	DonViejo	Mar 2014	#60
No, but claiming "oh it's not religious at all".. baloney. There are semantic contortions SOME are	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#82
I have seen the opposite	get the red out	Mar 2014	#133
It is pushed as the only way in my experience	get the red out	Mar 2014	#129
Aren't people who stop drinking but don't do the steps	Mariana	Mar 2014	#149
Yes they are	get the red out	Mar 2014	#155
Anecdotal from my years in public mental health	politicat	Mar 2014	#145
"We're only now starting to talk about it." That's the thing - how do you name a problem	nomorenomore08	Mar 2014	#166
Wonderful post, thank you	get the red out	Mar 2014	#193
That destruction of self is one of the things I personally have huge issues with in the *A model.	politicat	Mar 2014	#202
I tell folks	Dyedinthewoolliberal	Mar 2014	#68
And that attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. News Flash: There are other alternatives.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#69
You are correct.	Dyedinthewoolliberal	Mar 2014	#88
I'm talking about attitudes I have heard expressed by some 12 steppers- certainly not all.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#94
Yeah, the Baptists force that shit down everybody's throat in NM	Warpy	Mar 2014	#112
I also know that there is a big range, philosophically, among meetings.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#114
They want to get to people when they're most vulnerable. nt.	Mariana	Mar 2014	#146
? are you easy to push? ...	hollysmom	Mar 2014	#142
Er, I'm not personally big on prayer, no.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#143
sorry, I am just really old what was is not what is. n/t	hollysmom	Mar 2014	#144
There was an article in one of the papers here in NYC that there are atheist AA gatherings here	stevenleser	Mar 2014	#147
What's with the "Lord's Prayer" then?	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#55
Protestant or Catholic version?	Warpy	Mar 2014	#126
Accepting a higher power, in my case	applegrove	Mar 2014	#70
AA works for my atheist brother. n/t	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2014	#117
It works for a lot of people. Including Atheists who can reconcile with a definition of God or a	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#120
There are	get the red out	Mar 2014	#138
Indeed.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#140
this is anecdotal - but the two most severe alcoholics I have known - quit drinking through AA	Douglas Carpenter	Mar 2014	#17
AA definitely works for some	steve2470	Mar 2014	#19
One time a rational recovery meeting	astral	Mar 2014	#176
Whatever that was, it probably wasn't Rational Recovery.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#183
If it never worked for anyone, it would have vanished	Mariana	Mar 2014	#148
"one of the worst in all of medicine"... AA is not medicine...	Ohio Joe	Mar 2014	#21
It only causes harm when alcoholics are told it is the ONLY way that works.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#37
AA is a fellowship helping others live a better life and its free.	aikoaiko	Mar 2014	#28
Alcoholics Anonymous has a terrible success rate, addiction expert finds...so does the alternative	loudsue	Mar 2014	#29
And yet you have presented a false dichotomy.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#36
Yes, there alternatives. And AA says to seek those alternatives if AA does not	cordelia	Mar 2014	#47
That is good.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#48
I was very anti AA. Until I needed help and gave it a chance. So far so good, but	cordelia	Mar 2014	#52
I had a family member whose life was saved by AA, at least until the smokes killed him.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#58
Another terrible way to go	davidpdx	Mar 2014	#177
Yeah, I'm very glad I never picked up that particular habit.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#178
It's never too late to quit	davidpdx	Mar 2014	#180
Totally.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#182
Both my parents smoked	davidpdx	Mar 2014	#184
I have never been to a meeting where people said that	get the red out	Mar 2014	#170
Are you saying there are only two alternatives?	RandoLoodie	Mar 2014	#190
Wow! You can read things that don't exist! That's quite a talent!	loudsue	Mar 2014	#199
I always heard the success rate was crap... but better than other alternatives...	Hip_Flask	Mar 2014	#39
Everybody picks their poison in life, I guess...	nomorenomore08	Mar 2014	#167
It worked for me.	yardwork	Mar 2014	#40
Awesome	etherealtruth	Mar 2014	#110
I know someone who got sober when he was fifteen	yardwork	Mar 2014	#121
Thank you	etherealtruth	Mar 2014	#124
Thank you.	yardwork	Mar 2014	#125
Links: A few alternatives to AA and the 12 Steps (there are others)	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#41
SMART Recovery is another great AA alternative that provides tools to help in recovery.	U4ikLefty	Mar 2014	#77
Right, thank you, couldn't remember the name of that one!	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#79
RR is an AVRT-based approach that shuns meetings. SMART as larger focus and has both face-to-face	U4ikLefty	Mar 2014	#83
Totally.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#84
It worked for me for 13 years and counting	kydo	Mar 2014	#44
It's worked for me for nearly 4 years. This guy's trying to sell his book.	cordelia	Mar 2014	#49
And pharmaceuticals	pipoman	Mar 2014	#161
Personally, I think this "expert"	pipi_k	Mar 2014	#66
It works for some people. Other things work for other people.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#71
The problem I have with	pipi_k	Mar 2014	#109
I agree with you if you are talking about some system that claims, for instance	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#113
The physical addiction is cured by detox.	U4ikLefty	Mar 2014	#116
I went to a meeting once...	fujiyama	Mar 2014	#67
Hmmm	pipoman	Mar 2014	#72
when I was in the navy it was recommended by my	littlewolf	Mar 2014	#73
AA is without cost, which is what poor people can afford	The Second Stone	Mar 2014	#75
I could never get past that admitting you were helpless thing.	Blue_In_AK	Mar 2014	#78
With all due respect to those for whom AA has been helpful,	SheilaT	Mar 2014	#80
The history is certainly interesting, like the ties to "Moral Re-Armament"	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#85
I went with a friend to an AA meeting last night.	blueamy66	Mar 2014	#86
in a well run group, "war stories" are discouraged, hard to do of course	steve2470	Mar 2014	#89
Yes, that's exactly what I heard - war stories	blueamy66	Mar 2014	#90
The term I've heard used is "drunkalogues"	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#99
yes I've heard that too nt	steve2470	Mar 2014	#100
That's always been my experience at those meetings, too.	closeupready	Mar 2014	#102
I drank for years	madokie	Mar 2014	#87
One of my loved ones just needed to hear cirrhosis and you have 2 years to live, at best....	blueamy66	Mar 2014	#157
Alcoholics Anonymous can't be studied that way	ismnotwasm	Mar 2014	#91
Atheist meetings.	A-Schwarzenegger	Mar 2014	#93
100% success rate here.	A-Schwarzenegger	Mar 2014	#92
+1	ismnotwasm	Mar 2014	#96
for the curious about DSM-5 and alcoholism	steve2470	Mar 2014	#95
My brother celebrated 20 years of sobriety, last Sunday.	99Forever	Mar 2014	#97
Not everyone who attends an AA/Rational Recovery/etc meeting IS truly an alcoholic....	steve2470	Mar 2014	#98
Not everyone really follows the 12 steps.	undeterred	Mar 2014	#101
For those interested in scientific understanding of the physiological underpinnings of alcoholism	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#103
thanks for that, Warren	steve2470	Mar 2014	#104
Totally.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#105
another germane point	steve2470	Mar 2014	#106
I think with many people, that is true as well.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#107
"As opposed to probably fruitless endless debates" .......	whistler162	Mar 2014	#128
aint that the truth.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#131
amen nt	steve2470	Mar 2014	#135
+3	nomorenomore08	Mar 2014	#168
I think all addiction sufferers probably have a terrible success rate at beating their addictions nt	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#108
So true! n/t	etherealtruth	Mar 2014	#118
This is, sadly, true.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#123
You also need your family and friends to help.	Turbineguy	Mar 2014	#115
Some friends.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#122
I read somewhere that addiction is when someone is "hijacked" by the substance.	Sivafae	Mar 2014	#152
That's a good way to put it.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#153
It is very difficult to understand.	Mariana	Mar 2014	#158
Curbing any addiction usually takes several attempts.	liberal_at_heart	Mar 2014	#127
I have contended that part of the problem is that judges sentence people to attend the meeting and	jwirr	Mar 2014	#130
A lot of 12 steppers don't appreciate the court-mandated people being there, either, AFAIUI.	Warren DeMontague	Mar 2014	#132
I was aware of that also. Consider that you are setting in this meeting and are expected to bare you	jwirr	Mar 2014	#136
I read the articles and here is why they are wrong	hollysmom	Mar 2014	#139
In that case, AA can't claim any sort of success rate, either	Orrex	Mar 2014	#154
exactly, we can only know about the group we are in, our group was very successful.	hollysmom	Mar 2014	#171
As to be expected	Kurska	Mar 2014	#150
Uh oh. You brought up the woo label. Now this thread will really explode	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#156
Couldn't resist	Kurska	Mar 2014	#172
Yes well, this type of "woo" is inconvenient to the naysayers	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#174
If AA reached only One Person, I would have to consider it a success.	Tuesday Afternoon	Mar 2014	#162
There are so many alcoholics and/or problem drinkers.	Mariana	Mar 2014	#164
This debate reminds me a lot of debating homeopathy	William Seger	Mar 2014	#173
So everyone on this thread whose been helped by AA is "utter nonsense"?	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#206
If that's what I wanted to say, I would have said that (n/t)	William Seger	Mar 2014	#210
So why the comparison? "that the theory behind <it> is utter nonsense?"	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#211
"Back it up or retract," huh?	William Seger	Apr 2014	#213
People should do whatever works for them. That's all I can say as someone who has dealt	nomorenomore08	Mar 2014	#169
I don't really have an opinion on AA	davidpdx	Mar 2014	#179
k&r for the truth. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#188
Interesting thread - I've enjoyed it very much.	cordelia	Mar 2014	#194
It works for countless people every day.	NCTraveler	Mar 2014	#198
I'll give AA props for a few things	WhaTHellsgoingonhere	Mar 2014	#200
That's pretty sad.	Erich Bloodaxe BSN	Mar 2014	#201
So none of the DUers on this thread have really experienced "success" with AA?	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#207
Not what I'm saying at all.	Erich Bloodaxe BSN	Mar 2014	#208
Okay, that's cool. I happen to know the programs are successful	riderinthestorm	Mar 2014	#209
Im a DU'er AND member of AA	KinMd	Mar 2014	#212
How does	Dorian Gray	Mar 2014	#203
I've heard a lot about the success rate on AA being bad	TlalocW	Mar 2014	#204
off-topic anecdote about AA	steve2470	Mar 2014	#205

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