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no, neither did. then again, anti feminists really do not let facts get in their way. seabeyond Mar 2014 #1
I understand your feelings Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #5
And she is right. KitSileya Mar 2014 #9
Thanks. That's helpful. Chathamization Mar 2014 #153
I am amazed here by the number of folks Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #154
That's how it is. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #161
I read the article in which she said this. Atman Mar 2014 #2
so penthouse put something dworkin said out of context to diss her? so surprised. seabeyond Mar 2014 #3
Under which context does that make sense? Hip_Flask Mar 2014 #4
See, above post Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #7
Under the context where penthouse was frightened of the influence of feminists and wanted Squinch Mar 2014 #63
And yet free internet porn destroyed penthouse's business model far more effectively than Dworkin Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #111
You read, in Penthouse, Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #6
Well that settles it BainsBane Mar 2014 #8
Leave it to you to entirely miss the point. Atman Mar 2014 #14
You read an article BainsBane Mar 2014 #16
It was an INTERVIEW. Atman Mar 2014 #18
Did you see the interview? BainsBane Mar 2014 #20
Do you EVER, EVER actually read what anyone posts, or just make stuff up? Atman Mar 2014 #24
That was a rhetorical question, right? 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Mar 2014 #67
Right BainsBane Apr 2014 #251
Do you always, always insit that the only possible conversation BainsBane Apr 2014 #250
So I am only supposed to accept the Penthouse interview was fake? Atman Apr 2014 #252
Paglia or Dworkin BainsBane Apr 2014 #255
"...because you think you remember reading something in Penthouse equates with absolute truth..." Atman Apr 2014 #256
Question BainsBane Apr 2014 #258
I have searched. I get mixed results. Atman Apr 2014 #259
Okay, you're right BainsBane Apr 2014 #271
Here BainsBane Apr 2014 #275
Except it wasn't 1994 Atman Apr 2014 #278
Have I? BainsBane Apr 2014 #279
Just read anything you've ever posted. Atman Apr 2014 #280
In other words, you have no proof because you made shit up BainsBane Apr 2014 #282
BTW, I get supportive PM's, too. Atman Apr 2014 #262
Who's making stuff up now? BainsBane Apr 2014 #264
There is no point, because everyone else can read them! Atman Apr 2014 #266
Oh, you retracted them BainsBane Apr 2014 #269
Here is what you do... Atman Apr 2014 #253
You insisted repeatedly it was true BainsBane Apr 2014 #257
GAWD that was painful to read Tsiyu Apr 2014 #303
I'm reading an autobiography of a former child star, closeupready Mar 2014 #38
That's why interviews are taped. Atman Mar 2014 #39
You would think Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #134
Seriously? This is what you are going to the wall on? Penthouse's journalistic integrity? Squinch Mar 2014 #66
No, absolutely not. Atman Mar 2014 #68
You are widely misunderstood. It must be difficult for you. Squinch Mar 2014 #75
Nope. I am quite comfortable in my beliefs. Atman Mar 2014 #79
Yes. We all work for Democratic causes. Why are you pointing out that you do? Squinch Mar 2014 #82
I'm just at talking about Bain. It is well documented. Atman Mar 2014 #84
Apparently it's difficult for some, that Dworkin is "misunderstood" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #102
Perfect. Atman Mar 2014 #105
I'm honestly not sure what to think. I'm no great admirer of hers, but I don't entirely dismiss her nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #135
She was a product of her experiences Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #137
I agree completely with this post. Her ideas sure as hell didn't come from nowhere. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #140
I think on that, you're right. Many of her most ardent allies felt she had lost touch with reality Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #160
I haven't seen anybody saying she is a voice to be listened to, just defending her from the lies cui bono Apr 2014 #178
The only people I've seen bring her up initially are people arguing against feminist issues. seabeyond Apr 2014 #180
I've never read her and the fact that she is being villified and used as a tool cui bono Apr 2014 #184
me too. i know what i have read of her little piece people use, seabeyond Apr 2014 #185
Yeah, that could be interesting. cui bono Apr 2014 #274
I consider myself a feminist and I've never heard of her, before now. 2banon Apr 2014 #243
I suspect it's because she comes up as a name on radical feminist sites cui bono Apr 2014 #276
amazing.. sounds like rush limpballs followers.. 2banon Apr 2014 #288
I think you can download everything from this link. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #306
I agree that accuracy is important. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #182
She's a topic of this thread because someone else wrongly accused her in his OP cui bono Apr 2014 #183
Yes, but this thread is about her, specifically what she did or did not say. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #186
Agreed. n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #187
Her health was beginning to fail Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #195
Hmmm Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #136
With this thread as inspiration, I went to the wiki page on her - wow. closeupready Mar 2014 #146
I wouldn't say "tainted" her writing or ideas, but informed them Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #148
I suspect that many who are beaten and/or raped do closeupready Mar 2014 #156
Beatings and sexual assault leave their mark Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #199
I think it's only changed a little, unfortunately. I'm 29 and graduated high school in 2003. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #272
The level of violence lurking just below the surface Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #293
I know exactly what you mean. Other men often frighten or intimidate me without even consciously nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #294
I live in the South Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #296
Good for you. Everyone needs to deal with this in their own way, and your way is at least nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #297
Women are not the only ones afraid of men. Men are afraid of other men. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #307
i have not studied her either. i recently downloaded her stuff. seabeyond Mar 2014 #151
It's sad that she is condemned; on the other hand, closeupready Mar 2014 #155
Her book "Letters From a War Zone" thucythucy Apr 2014 #230
yes. i have heard of that. and yes, that was what i was told to particularly read. excellent seabeyond Apr 2014 #234
excellent idea! thucythucy Apr 2014 #236
ahhhh. and btw, seabeyond Apr 2014 #237
Ah, the old guilt by association fallacy BainsBane Apr 2014 #254
Ah, you sure do have an active imagination. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #260
I am far from an expert on such matters BainsBane Apr 2014 #263
If there are conservatives who agree with me that the 1st Amendment is important Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #265
This thread came out of the thread seeking to deny rape culture BainsBane Apr 2014 #267
I've said at least 3 times in this thread, I felt that bringing Dworkin up in the context of those Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #268
That ignores the issue of separatist feminism BainsBane Apr 2014 #273
You and I will just have to disagree. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #283
I would like to extend appreciation to you. MadrasT Apr 2014 #308
Thanks... I think! Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #309
LOL. Just for that I am kicking it again. MadrasT Apr 2014 #310
Right on. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #311
self deleted lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #169
Excuse me? BainsBane Apr 2014 #171
Interesting allegation. Or maybe a false memory? LanternWaste Mar 2014 #17
From the link to Snopes: Maedhros Mar 2014 #46
as someone who has been on the recieving end of penatrive intercourse and who is male dsc Mar 2014 #89
I think that Dworkin was using "violent" differently than what many are imagining. Maedhros Mar 2014 #101
that I can buy dsc Mar 2014 #104
Part of what must be considered is the mechanics of the act Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #138
Think also of the language used Scootaloo Mar 2014 #158
+1. good stuff. love our words. beyond meaning. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #167
loved Gloria Steinem's take on the "envelopement" Scout Apr 2014 #221
Sounds ve-e-l-l-ly intelesting. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #295
You did, eh? Well, then, quote it from the publication, and MineralMan Mar 2014 #23
I posted the date...I believe it was 1978. Atman Mar 2014 #26
Actually, it was the April, 1987 issue. MineralMan Mar 2014 #34
No, it was in 1978. I know because I know where I was living at the time. Atman Mar 2014 #42
I can find no reference to an interview of Dworkin in Penthouse MineralMan Mar 2014 #50
I will make an admission of guilt here! (See, I'm an honest guy!) Atman Mar 2014 #45
"Camile Paglia." ha ha ha ha. i am laughing, cause the seabeyond Mar 2014 #49
So, you can't really remember, but you post anyhow. MineralMan Mar 2014 #60
Well, no...it would appear my memory is just fine. Atman Mar 2014 #61
I'm not being insulting. I'm saying you misstated something, and then MineralMan Mar 2014 #62
I find that being honest is never embarassing. Atman Mar 2014 #65
I have read the entire thread and all posts in it. MineralMan Mar 2014 #69
I made no joke about it. Please...post my "joke." Atman Mar 2014 #73
Do you get that the problem there wasn't Bain responding to you, but your insistence on something Squinch Mar 2014 #72
I get the problem is that Bain constantly twists people's post into bullshit that was never said. Atman Mar 2014 #77
Do you see that you are doing exactly what you are accusing her of doing? Squinch Mar 2014 #81
The difference is specifics. Atman Mar 2014 #86
Making shit up, there, aren't you? Saying she said something that she never said, aren't you? Squinch Mar 2014 #87
Nope. Stand by my statement. Bain does this every day. Atman Mar 2014 #88
And you're doing it today. Squinch Mar 2014 #91
No, I am not. Atman Mar 2014 #92
Well, then, by all means, keep reading her posts closely and complaining about them! Squinch Mar 2014 #93
I'm making up NOTHING. Atman Mar 2014 #96
You CAN'T be done! She'll never repent unless you keep complaining about her! Squinch Mar 2014 #100
Give it a rest. Desert805 Mar 2014 #106
And might YOU be projecting here? Squinch Mar 2014 #109
This isn't gonna be a big insult laden exchange. Desert805 Mar 2014 #112
Given your insult laden salvo, it's too late to decide it's not going to be insult laden. Squinch Mar 2014 #113
Keep trying. Desert805 Mar 2014 #115
Given that you showed up out of the blue to join the conversation, it appears you do. Squinch Mar 2014 #118
I think the better question is WHO he might be projecting. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #124
Clearly. Isn't it nice when the kids come back to visit? Squinch Mar 2014 #125
We don't even get a chance to miss them and then *poof* they're back again. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #126
They grow and clone themselves so fast! Squinch Mar 2014 #127
In this case you just admitted to being honestly wrong Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #143
Uh, wow Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #142
you mean mercuryblues Mar 2014 #117
This might help a bit: Raine1967 Mar 2014 #121
I have quoted from that interview Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #144
so what if she did? does she represent all feminists. is she even that imp in the feminist movement? La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #10
I believe there would be a lot to discuss with Dworkin Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #78
pulling my copy of "Intercourse" off the shelf here . . . . zazen Mar 2014 #11
Precisely Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #19
She refers to the "normal fuck for the normal man" in the book quotes NickB79 Mar 2014 #32
No. Atman Mar 2014 #37
husbands were allowed to legally rape his wife. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #43
yes. a husband was still legally allowed to rape his wife. seabeyond Mar 2014 #40
I understand it was legal. I wanted to know if it was normal NickB79 Mar 2014 #44
we do not know most husbands or their attitude of sex in the 70's, do we. seabeyond Mar 2014 #47
OK, I can see that. So now that spousal rape is illegal NickB79 Mar 2014 #54
some of us .... women, feel it is significant that only a couple decades ago, it was legal to RAPE seabeyond Mar 2014 #64
It's not as if these ideas, these "norms," just disappear within a generation or two. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #141
I'm not sure it's possible to fairly answer this question. Lyric Apr 2014 #207
I have argued the same across different threads. KitSileya Apr 2014 #211
legal rape. and then we wonder why rapists get confised. but hey.... do not be mentioning that seabeyond Apr 2014 #215
Until fairly recent times Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #53
Glad I grew up in the 90's instead if that's the case NickB79 Mar 2014 #56
My generation has a lot to answer for, but then, we were part of the Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #59
meh. Every generation does that. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #116
Well, I hope never to become part of the "establishment" Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #128
I'm sure it depends on the individual. Then and now. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #139
Yes, speaking as a married woman in 1971, it was very very much the NORM. n/t 2banon Apr 2014 #244
Since I haven't read the book NickB79 Mar 2014 #41
she does slightly in the beginning, but I'd look to her surviving partner John Stoltenberg zazen Mar 2014 #76
constructs and other rhetorical acrobatics Supersedeas Apr 2014 #248
But but but...alleged comments she made decades ago prove Rex Mar 2014 #12
Of course, no one said that. Atman Mar 2014 #15
Please cite the title of the publication Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #21
No page numbers. Must not be true. Atman Mar 2014 #31
I am quoting her from sources Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #71
The snopes article is about Catherine MacKinnon. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #83
The snopes' article also says Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #90
It says she disavowed it. Whether or not she uttered that precise combination of words is Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #95
Do we get to "disavow" previous DU posts? Atman Mar 2014 #98
You have already admitted in other posts in this thread Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #150
You have pulled a cluster of senetences out Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #133
It's relevant if you want to talk about the philosophical gist of her work. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #164
not true. there is a difference between rape, as you and others want to make it. and violent seabeyond Apr 2014 #170
I think you're responding to someone else's post, not mine. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #176
yes. i do not think you can take what she actually said, and say it is the same as saying all sex seabeyond Apr 2014 #179
I've given several examples of things she actually DID say, and they're all over the map. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #181
+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #174
True Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #194
Here's the thing. First off, I believe the specific quote we're discussing comes from "Our Blood". Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #235
Rather than address various quotes Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #239
Are you qualified to assert general tenets about Dworkin's work? Maedhros Apr 2014 #277
Well, that's certainly a fascinating opinion you have there. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #284
Well, to make a claim of understanding of an author's "general tenets" implies more Maedhros Apr 2014 #285
It's not limited sources. That's a fairly extensive excerpt, and its by no means the only bit I'm Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #286
No thank you. You are taking a belligerent tone. Maedhros Apr 2014 #289
Heh Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #299
That last one is bizarre. As though an erection weren't a matter of simple biology, which it is. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #145
with so little there, we are all clueless what she was saying. it is worthless to seabeyond Mar 2014 #152
Very true. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #163
Maybe if you say it, it'll be okay. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #162
Without knowing much about Ms. Dworkin, I have a question NickB79 Mar 2014 #51
You have to actually read when she said. I have posted Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #57
. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #132
Oh they didn't? There is a MEGA thread in GD that's premise is JUST THAT. Rex Mar 2014 #25
Sincerely...I'm not sure what you're saying. Atman Mar 2014 #29
Making fun of another thread in GD...the premise is weak Rex Mar 2014 #30
Thanks. Atman Mar 2014 #33
Yeah sorry, I guess I should have given more detail in the first reply. Rex Mar 2014 #36
The premise is, indeed, weak. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #110
She should not be held as the 'gold standard' for if today we have a rape culture in America. Rex Mar 2014 #122
No, it should not. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #123
Actually, someone did say that: thucythucy Apr 2014 #231
ha ha ha. ya. that. lol. thanks for the laugh. i am outta here. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #22
"Nobody said that." Really? There is a MEGA thread on it in GD! Rex Mar 2014 #27
No, she didn't LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #13
She was describing intercourse Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #48
I see the outrage BainsBane Mar 2014 #52
Or that they simply prefer sex on their terms Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #55
Oh, yes BainsBane Mar 2014 #58
yep yep yep. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #74
yes yes yes. oh, i like the smart talk. you guys are getting me all that. seabeyond Mar 2014 #70
"claptrap" like coitus Major Nikon Apr 2014 #229
No... It's just more bullshit MRA's like to spread Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #35
weird--I reread the posts (including mine) on Dworkin's memorial tribute wall on Sunday zazen Mar 2014 #80
Huh? What? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #85
Excuse me ... In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #99
Juror #3 has a good question... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #120
Does it really matter what she said exactly? CFLDem Mar 2014 #94
I think I would prefer a more professional Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #130
Her own husband didn't believe her rape account Major Nikon Apr 2014 #202
Source please... Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #213
... Major Nikon Apr 2014 #219
Thank you, Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #225
I have no idea what conditions she did or didn't have Major Nikon Apr 2014 #227
A disconnect from your reality, sure, but not from hers. Maedhros Apr 2014 #281
The idea that everyone gets their own personal reality is not a good one Major Nikon Apr 2014 #287
Who here read Dworkin in law school? RainDog Apr 2014 #290
She also lost her legal battles Major Nikon Apr 2014 #292
Dworkin was not an academic RainDog Apr 2014 #301
One's reality is the sum of one's experiences. Maedhros Apr 2014 #291
Nobody but the insane and the GOP get their own version of facts and reality Major Nikon Apr 2014 #298
You've missed the point. Probably on purpose. Maedhros Apr 2014 #300
Perhaps because I didn't agree with it Major Nikon Apr 2014 #304
So were the Marquis de Sade, Nietzsche, and (arguably) Hunter S. Thompson. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #147
And no she didn't say it CFLDem Mar 2014 #97
you mean "implied," not inferred, and your grammatically incorrect insult to her memory is pathetic zazen Mar 2014 #103
So what did she mean about penetrative sex being "immune to reform?" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #107
I don't have that book, but you could start with reading works by her ex-partner John Stoltenberg zazen Mar 2014 #114
Stoltenberg identifies as Gay, and they repeatedly said no, they didn't have sex. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #119
Thank you. That was very well said. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #149
Well, trying to derive meaning from a sentence fragment Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #131
Are you suggesting I made it up? I didn't. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #157
can you provide the link that you copy and pasted that from? boston bean Apr 2014 #175
Why? Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #177
No. I wanted to read the entire passage. boston bean Apr 2014 #193
If you google "Andrea Dworkin Our Blood", one of the first results is a pdf link. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #233
Nope, not suggesting that at all Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #196
Again, you need to read the context Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #129
Shame on you. You're not a proper democrat unless you assist with rehabilitating her reputation. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #173
But she did say Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #108
It is a rare individual indeed Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #198
you are good. you are so patient. you are so respectful in your responses. seabeyond Apr 2014 #200
The mens groups has a real infatuation with her boston bean Mar 2014 #159
ha ha. ya. a while back SOME of the men liked getting a most unappealing picture to seabeyond Apr 2014 #172
A gender group discussing gender subjects Major Nikon Apr 2014 #204
The mere act of sexual intercourse can mean many different things to different people. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #165
My understanding is that she was speaking of a womans "duty". boston bean Apr 2014 #166
I think it's a good question to ask, in general - are any of us truly "free" to make choices? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #168
Not to mention, that until 1993, in some places, marital duty by law. KitSileya Apr 2014 #188
But anyone who objects to any of this is just a "feminazi" (per MRA-speak). nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #190
Yup. Very disappointing every time these topics are discussed on DU. KitSileya Apr 2014 #191
"Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer..." davidn3600 Apr 2014 #189
I am pressed for time at the moment, but am willing to offer Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #197
You can CFLDem Apr 2014 #192
Their claim is that coitus under the patriarchy is harmful and not fully consensual Major Nikon Apr 2014 #201
this quote in the 70's when it was legal for a husband to rape a wife, kinda is their point. seabeyond Apr 2014 #203
Dworkin's book, Intercourse wasn't published until 1987 Major Nikon Apr 2014 #205
Still legal to rape wife in some states into the nineties seabeyond Apr 2014 #206
Which is tangential to Dworkin's et al claims Major Nikon Apr 2014 #208
read lyric above. i am not wasting any more time with discussion. that a husband is legally seabeyond Apr 2014 #209
Did you actually read Dworkin's book, Intercourse? Major Nikon Apr 2014 #210
i have been doing you so long, we know each others steps. now, intercourse..... seabeyond Apr 2014 #214
So you are convinced I'm wrong about a subject you are ignorant by your own admission Major Nikon Apr 2014 #218
i know you are wrong cause you discount the time she was addressing, you have to change her words seabeyond Apr 2014 #220
So I'm wrong because someone else may think I'm wrong Major Nikon Apr 2014 #222
no. i clearly expressed three reasons you were wrong. and lookie, you HAD to change my words... lol seabeyond Apr 2014 #223
Point of order Major Nikon Apr 2014 #224
First, Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #212
Okay, then do you agree with and approve of what she did say? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #216
Defending the accuracy and context of a person's quotes Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #238
Funny, I'm not reminded of the condition of slaves in the US when I think of Dworkin. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #240
Really? Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #241
I didn't really want to get into this RainDog Apr 2014 #242
Well said. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #245
Dworkin should have stuck to "I think that" RainDog Apr 2014 #249
That right there is why YOU are one of my favorite DU members. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #261
Oh. I thought it was b/c I liked music other than the GD RainDog Apr 2014 #270
Historical context is somewhat relevant Major Nikon Apr 2014 #217
We have no idea what Dworkin would Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #226
I'm not convinced her points were ever all that relevant Major Nikon Apr 2014 #228
Thanks for posting this. I always saw the way Dworkin's "quote" was twisted thucythucy Apr 2014 #232
Ooh! Ooh! A feminism thread! KamaAina Apr 2014 #246
I think you are getting in at the end of the dust up. Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #247
I'm willing to concede... NaturalHigh Apr 2014 #302
It's complicated Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #305
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