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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
17. "Privilege" makes sense in discussing point of view.
Sat May 10, 2014, 01:05 PM
May 2014

The core point that I see is that it is theoretically impossible for a member of a more empowered cultural subgroup to fully appreciate the obstacles faced by those outside of it. It's a good thing to keep in mind, but it's susceptible to abuse in the usual stupid ways.

It's most useful as a concept where someone objects to a complaint regarding inequality of opportunity or treatment on the basis they, having never suffered it directly, "don't see it."

Obvious examples would be men who say they'd welcome "catcalls" or other aggressive sexual advances from women, and therefore women should not complain about such things, even though men face an entirely different set of risks and attitudes. Men are not likely to get raped, not likely to face contempt for being promiscuous, etc. They "don't see" the problems with sexual aggression not because it doesn't exist, but because they don't suffer its effects.

Or someone who grew up with ample education, encouragement, and respect, wondering aloud while someone who grew up in poverty, with few opportunities, and subject to discrimination based on their ethnicity, gender, etc., doesn't just get a job with their father's law firm.

Or someone who doesn't understand viewing law enforcement with suspicion, never having been pulled over for being the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood.

That kind of thing.

On the other hand, some people, given a valid rhetorical / sociological concept, can't help using it as a cudgel to simply denigrate others, or demand that they be silent in order to "win" some argument. The notion that only whites can be "racist" because we're going to redefine racism to mean "effective society-wide race-based oppression," instead of what it actually means, which is any kind of racial animus, is an example of this kind of silliness.

So we get stupid things like the young Mexican-American organizer who recently ranted at a friend of mine, a white woman in her, 40s, ill and exhausted after a cross-country trip, back issues, and a furious three days of constant work, and under pressure to get back to the airport, about how white people need to stop using their "privilege" to complain about being tired. In that case, he was actually speaking from the point of view of his own privilege: Young, strong, male, in good health, and not 2,000 miles from home. He could not grasp, and did not care to, that women or people older than himself, or with health issues, might actually BE tired under circumstances that did not bother him.

As progressives, we pride ourselves on spotting and calling out inequality, unfair treatment, and the like. But we are as susceptible as anyone else to petty conceits of personal superiority and desire to shut others down on the basis of who they are without sufficient attention to context or nuance or just plain clear thinking.

Very well stated. TM99 May 2014 #1
I think white, male, etc "privilege" is the EASE with which those rights are honored. ret5hd May 2014 #2
How to quantify this privilege? TM99 May 2014 #4
Do you necessarily have to quantify to acknowledge the existence??? ret5hd May 2014 #7
Yes. TM99 May 2014 #10
your definitions are off. when sociologists refer to privilege- is not county clubs, ladies night bettyellen May 2014 #3
There are quite a few critiques in academia TM99 May 2014 #6
there are quite a few critiques in academia on everything, LOL. sorry, but if you studied sociology bettyellen May 2014 #9
Laugh if you want TM99 May 2014 #11
Well, the enhanced specificity of such terms as bigotry vs racism comes in handy I think.... bettyellen May 2014 #14
I am sorry TM99 May 2014 #15
I wasn't talking about sweeping rights under the rug, try again? bettyellen May 2014 #16
first, condescending... now snark... ProdigalJunkMail May 2014 #18
And here it comes. TM99 May 2014 #20
betty was the person to whom I was speaking... ProdigalJunkMail May 2014 #22
Oops! TM99 May 2014 #25
it is very difficult on my mobile device to see ProdigalJunkMail May 2014 #27
Ha ha, He was talking about me, but I am sure you'll agree we've been having a fairly civil bettyellen May 2014 #23
go back and look at your posts... ProdigalJunkMail May 2014 #26
LOL, sorry if you can't whip us into a frenzy of hatred. Try again elsewhere maybe? bettyellen May 2014 #32
Here's what you wrote. TM99 May 2014 #19
Sorry, your interpetation threw me- but I see the typo that did it. bettyellen May 2014 #21
Not a problem. TM99 May 2014 #24
I do think you are spot on with the lack of empathy part, but not entirley with the lazy thinking bettyellen May 2014 #31
I don't disagree TM99 May 2014 #33
Yeah, the derailing thing is such a distraction here, and it would be awesome if we could get past bettyellen May 2014 #34
You are welcome. TM99 May 2014 #37
How those things are defined can lead to enormous arguments ismnotwasm May 2014 #28
Thank you for that essay you linked to. Everyone in this discussion should read it. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #35
You are welcome. TM99 May 2014 #38
Privilege is a word that has meaning. It cannot be redefined at will for convenience btrflykng9 May 2014 #36
words have more than one meaning, depending on context. always have! the rest is all bettyellen May 2014 #39
Least I don't have to check with my college professors first to know what to think n/t btrflykng9 May 2014 #40
or actually learn anything! No, you can't be forced to do either, LOL. bettyellen May 2014 #41
Rights are enforced legally, privilege is enforced culturally. NuclearDem May 2014 #5
Interesting, though somewhat academic quinnox May 2014 #8
Civil rights are for everyone, privilege is given only to select people or groups Major Nikon May 2014 #12
nice and concise Supersedeas May 2014 #45
Privelage can be an incredibly subjective standard. rrneck May 2014 #13
"Privilege" makes sense in discussing point of view. DirkGently May 2014 #17
Privilege and "privileges" are two entirely different things. Zenlitened May 2014 #29
I disagree ismnotwasm May 2014 #30
fwiw - WfE is a feminist woman RainDog May 2014 #42
There's just as much reason to assume it's because of your gender as race in that scenario Major Nikon May 2014 #44
Poster Boy for Privilege Dirty Socialist May 2014 #43
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