That is probably for the best ... (Reply #216)

In the discussion thread: #NOTALLMEN: How Not to Derail Discussions of Women's Issues [View all]

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:30 PM

216. That is probably for the best ...

but I recommend, rather than abandoning the discussion, spend your time listening without feeling compelled to respond. All to often, our need to respond (i.e., defend our position) interferes with our ability to hear what is ACTUALLY being said.

I've learned that the hard way.

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218 replies	Author	Time	Post
#NOTALLMEN: How Not to Derail Discussions of Women's Issues [View all]	sheshe2	May 2014	OP
There are most definitely men that have a major problem in relating to women as an equal human being	Uncle Joe	May 2014	#1
Since I can't say what I really need to say here, I'll just say this.	William769	May 2014	#2
I thank you William!	sheshe2	May 2014	#3
I find this depressing . . .	MrModerate	May 2014	#4
"Is this a desirable result? People turning off the concern? I'd think not."	sheshe2	May 2014	#7
And I'm happy to see that acknowledgment . . .	MrModerate	May 2014	#10
Good point, sheshe2.	calimary	May 2014	#56
Good to see you hear calimary.	sheshe2	May 2014	#63
Calimary!!!	ProfessorGAC	May 2014	#165
Oh I'm still loud-mouthing it around, I'm afraid...	calimary	May 2014	#172
Well G'luck To You and Yours	ProfessorGAC	May 2014	#191
well, do you actually read and try to learn something from those	geek tragedy	May 2014	#15
I feel that the author is saying listen now. Listen to the women	roguevalley	May 2014	#31
Point taken. n/t	MrModerate	May 2014	#33
and ask your friends here and in RL to listen too. To pay a bit of attention and	bettyellen	May 2014	#81
Actually we are being KILLED!	sheshe2	May 2014	#70
I wish that graphic that shows the number of dead was in an OP	Jamastiene	May 2014	#75
Ha!	sheshe2	May 2014	#80
Thank you.	Jamastiene	May 2014	#88
...	sheshe2	May 2014	#90
In find this depressing too!	sheshe2	May 2014	#86
In answer to your question . . .	MrModerate	May 2014	#105
I know it has been said ...	1StrongBlackMan	May 2014	#176
"Those most immediate to the discussion . . ."	MrModerate	May 2014	#195
Well from one man to another ...	1StrongBlackMan	May 2014	#207
I think you're probably right.	MrModerate	May 2014	#215
That is probably for the best ...	1StrongBlackMan	May 2014	#216
Wise words. Still makes me sad.	MrModerate	May 2014	#217
Why do women need to say all men if they know it isn't true?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#5
Where are women saying that it is all men? nt	sheshe2	May 2014	#8
"Not all men" didn't just appear out of nowhere.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#12
"not all men" arose from men who want to derail the subject and are more interested in portraying	geek tragedy	May 2014	#16
You really didn't answer my question.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#20
why are you unable to ask a questions that aren't loaded and accusatory?	geek tragedy	May 2014	#23
I question hypocrisy where ever I see it.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#24
No, you are accusing and derailing.	geek tragedy	May 2014	#27
Please cite my whining. I asked a legitimate question and you are avoiding it like the plague.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#40
Your accusation of people here supporting stereotyping is blatantly bad faith and designed	geek tragedy	May 2014	#45
Again, you can't answer a simple question.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#55
again, you're fabricating claims that people are going around saying "all men are rapists/murderers/	geek tragedy	May 2014	#60
Sorry, I've been through this plenty tonight and you are wrong.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#69
I disagree that it is acceptable or accurate.	geek tragedy	May 2014	#74
I find hypocrisy distasteful.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#85
You are choosing a very peculiar semantic quibble	geek tragedy	May 2014	#89
Where do you see outrage? I'm asking a question which people appear fearful to answer.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#93
Not all men derails the conversation - deliberately	intaglio	May 2014	#112
Did you read the OP? It is not about San Diego.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#120
#YesAllWomen is not about San Diego, it is about what women experience every day	intaglio	May 2014	#128
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2014	#208
Whining weasel words	intaglio	May 2014	#212
There are none so blind as those who knee jerk attack.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#218
You have been through nothing	intaglio	May 2014	#111
Been through nothing... I don't know what is supposed to mean.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#121
Yes and #NotAllMen is a whiny "not my fault" excuse	intaglio	May 2014	#129
Again, I have never used a hashtag in this post	Thor_MN	May 2014	#139
Hard luck I did	intaglio	May 2014	#140
Projection.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#142
No I am telling you that you personally, along with others like you	intaglio	May 2014	#150
No, you are projecting your desire to argue with someone who is doing that	Thor_MN	May 2014	#152
Ah, so it's all meta and has no bearing upon actual misogyny	intaglio	May 2014	#173
In a word, Bullshit. You obviously have not read the OP, or are incapable of comprehension.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#180
You are complicit in misogyny as every post you have made on the subject shows	intaglio	May 2014	#143
Inserting your own hates and prejudices is telling.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#146
this is beyond ridiculous. derailing to the point of saying, anywhere in the universe any time,	seabeyond	May 2014	#149
That is the assertion you are making.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#156
And you accuse me of projection?	intaglio	May 2014	#154
intaglio. i am saying ...	seabeyond	May 2014	#159
Maybe because saying "men" with no qualifiers makes it harder for the rest of us to just assume	nomorenomore08	May 2014	#68
True, and they ALWAYS think they are being so fucking original too,	Raksha	May 2014	#194
you really need to read before you argue. no. not all men, was not a counter to ANYONE saying ALL	seabeyond	May 2014	#32
not over nothing, this is like Republicans who complain about 'the race card' being played	geek tragedy	May 2014	#39
anyway geek. the article was awesome. as i was reading, i was thinking about men like you.	seabeyond	May 2014	#46
it took the willingness to listen. some men just don't feel that they	geek tragedy	May 2014	#48
did something click. did something make you say... oh fuck. i really was not seeing.	seabeyond	May 2014	#53
marriage has improved my listening skills and 'get it' capabilities	geek tragedy	May 2014	#58
i understand that. thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. i do appreciate it. nt	seabeyond	May 2014	#64
That is the first time I've seen a man own this and	Skidmore	May 2014	#109
...exactly..it moves the conversation, if there is one,	prairierose	May 2014	#168
Yes, and it did what was intended. It wore me out as it was offtopic and never ended.	freshwest	May 2014	#201
Absolutes will destroy your arguments every time.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#44
"many imply 'all men'"	geek tragedy	May 2014	#47
Not not trying to divide anyone.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#59
If there were to be a post that said "all men" then it would invite strict scrutiny and should	geek tragedy	May 2014	#65
all men watch porn and if your man says he doesnt he is lying. yup. nt	seabeyond	May 2014	#67
If there were to be a post that says "Allman," would that be appropriate?	nomorenomore08	May 2014	#73
you are making it up. you said that 'notallmen" was started to counter "allmen". there was no	seabeyond	May 2014	#51
Same question to you.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#61
no. i addressed your post. what you said. that "notallmen" was countering an "allmen".	seabeyond	May 2014	#71
Sorry lost track in all the people kicking me around.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#78
i would bet i have read a zillion more on all this than you. i have seen no all men rape ... ever	seabeyond	May 2014	#82
So you are unable to even contemplate a hypothetical question.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#92
unable? of course i am ... able.	seabeyond	May 2014	#95
Able, but unwilling.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#97
no. as in, that was not the issue and had nothing to do with what i was addressing with your post.	seabeyond	May 2014	#100
I read the article and specifically chose this post to ask my question.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#103
i addressed your false statement. you are demanding that i answer your questions? no. that is not	seabeyond	May 2014	#104
Games.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#106
I think you demonstrated the OP very nicely	noiretextatique	May 2014	#107
Wow, feel free to insert your prejudices...	Thor_MN	May 2014	#122
poor you	noiretextatique	May 2014	#169
Please cite where I have claimed victimhood.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#181
no...it is about your fragile ego	noiretextatique	May 2014	#211
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2014	#213
No, you tried to deflect the conversation in your first post	intaglio	May 2014	#114
Again what conversation?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#123
The conversation you, repeatedly, try to derail	intaglio	May 2014	#131
Can you please cite where I have ever used a hashtag?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#135
Another derail.	intaglio	May 2014	#137
Your misreading of my words is not a argument	Thor_MN	May 2014	#144
Oh, it's all about you it it and not the whining?	intaglio	May 2014	#148
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2014	#209
Geez dude, you sound like a broken record!!	alittlelark	May 2014	#200
Geez honey, the responses are even more like a broken record.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#204
Citations of threads making your claimed implications or you are talking out of your cloaca	intaglio	May 2014	#113
Where did you pull that out of?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#125
You are now attempting to claim that you meant the entire internet	intaglio	May 2014	#134
They are present on DU threads, but I never limited my scope.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#136
If they are present cite them	intaglio	May 2014	#138
I have, but you are only reading what you want to read.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#141
You have provided evidence you are complicit in misogyny	intaglio	May 2014	#145
Please cite evidence, rather than what you are making up in your mind.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#151
The evidence is in your posts	intaglio	May 2014	#155
Specific examples please, and don't go on with your wild accusation that I support misogyny	Thor_MN	May 2014	#157
Read your own posts	intaglio	May 2014	#175
Good god, it is bigotry to even QUESTION if stereotyping is ever acceptable?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#177
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2014	#210
Well...	sheshe2	May 2014	#41
+1. n/t	scruboak	May 2014	#161
Thank you, scruboak.	sheshe2	May 2014	#183
NOT a response to this tragedy and not in response to articles saying all men	intaglio	May 2014	#110
You say it "didn't just appear out of nowhere"	scruboak	May 2014	#164
Incorrect. I have given several examples, but the knee jerk reactions in this post are blind to them	Thor_MN	May 2014	#182
You are the only one in this thread saying "all men"	passiveporcupine	May 2014	#9
I was hoping to have a discussion, but I see that you are antagonistic.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#11
What you offered was textbook derailing and trolling, complete with passive aggressive "why you so	geek tragedy	May 2014	#18
you are suggesting so many are saying, all men commit mass murder? intellectually, common damn sense	seabeyond	May 2014	#30
#NotOneIota LOL	bettyellen	May 2014	#84
me too. love it. lol. nt	seabeyond	May 2014	#91
No you did not come here for a discussion.	sheshe2	May 2014	#79
Mission Accomplished, thread destoyed. Sorry, She she. n/t	freshwest	May 2014	#202
Yes....	sheshe2	May 2014	#205
Citations of the threads saying all men	intaglio	May 2014	#115
Thank you, passiveporcupine.	sheshe2	May 2014	#13
it's textbook because you know that they would pull this stunt	geek tragedy	May 2014	#22
Exactly	The Roux Comes First	May 2014	#197
The very title of the thread says #NOTALLMEN	Jamastiene	May 2014	#72
On the contrary,	Thor_MN	May 2014	#101
You are the one making claims without citation	intaglio	May 2014	#116
There never, ever, has been a single post on the entire internet that implies all men are xxxxx	Thor_MN	May 2014	#119
You cited DU specifically	intaglio	May 2014	#126
Really? Please cite where I did that. I have not used the letters D and U consecutively,	Thor_MN	May 2014	#130
OK, implied, now cite the DU threads that support your contention n/t	intaglio	May 2014	#133
You admit that you made that up. Possible that you are making other things up?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#158
Nope, but you are still denying reality	intaglio	May 2014	#174
Who has said "White Knight" other than you and what the hell does that even mean?	Thor_MN	May 2014	#178
Maybe you're not aware	catrose	May 2014	#147
No, what I have found here is the same exact hate and hypocrisy that you speak of.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#185
No, of Course Not	The Roux Comes First	May 2014	#199
Thank you.	Thor_MN	May 2014	#203
k&r	Starry Messenger	May 2014	#6
May I also suggest that it's a good idea to avoid saying things that make people defensive.	Nye Bevan	May 2014	#14
textbook. some feminist said something you didn't like months ago, so that's	geek tragedy	May 2014	#21
I simply don't think that statements such as "all men benefit from rape"	Nye Bevan	May 2014	#29
and you had that discussion MONTHS ago, yet here you are beating that dead horse,for obvious reasons	geek tragedy	May 2014	#35
"All men benefit from rape" was simply the first example that sprang to mind,	Nye Bevan	May 2014	#42
Well cite some more examples	intaglio	May 2014	#117
I don't either think that of all men but too many men don't seem to really hear us when	roguevalley	May 2014	#36
As a husband, and as a father of daughters, that stuff positively terrifies me.	Nye Bevan	May 2014	#43
I know they would. I know you would. But that is the life of women.	roguevalley	May 2014	#49
it was a feminists academic exercise in exploration from different angle and perspective	seabeyond	May 2014	#62
Personally, I tend to think telling the plain truth is more important.	nomorenomore08	May 2014	#76
Here's my simple litmus test:	Shandris	May 2014	#17
Sigh. This is example #3 of trying to derail	geek tragedy	May 2014	#25
Wait. Let me get this straight. I'm...DERAILING...a thread with an OP about why...	Shandris	May 2014	#34
no, you blatantly distorted the OP, but thanks for playing, go ahead and play the victim, it's	geek tragedy	May 2014	#37
I'm playing the victim? Erm...alright. I'm not sure how I'm the victim, given that...	Shandris	May 2014	#50
well, as a man, I can say that those who play the "not all men" game are not serving my interests	geek tragedy	May 2014	#54
I aleady told you that I wasn't going to confront you...	Shandris	May 2014	#77
Had you not doubled down on the false and misleading	geek tragedy	May 2014	#83
"I'm -not- certain all my sisters have my best (or even -any-) of my best interests at heart."	sheshe2	May 2014	#102
did they read the OP?	noiretextatique	May 2014	#108
Some people just don't know their place.	AngryAmish	May 2014	#127
apparently not	noiretextatique	May 2014	#170
Started reading#YesAllWomen b/c I've got a daughter,now I see I should be reading b/c I've got 2 son	seabeyond	May 2014	#19
I thought of you sea,	sheshe2	May 2014	#28
well. seeing how i am all into behavior, sociology, psychology and the like, i am having a blast.	seabeyond	May 2014	#38
You are definitely up to the challenge, sea~ nt	sheshe2	May 2014	#187
+1. n/t	scruboak	May 2014	#162
Post an answer that 100% agrees with the OP, and	Phlem	May 2014	#26
And you are saying what Phlem? nt	sheshe2	May 2014	#52
The new hashtag starting is #YesAllPeople	davidn3600	May 2014	#57
and that hashtag is another attempt to derail the conversation	intaglio	May 2014	#118
try #HeadInThe Sand	bettyellen	May 2014	#171
+1!	sheshe2	May 2014	#186
Thanks for the link.	wickerwoman	May 2014	#66
The OP is excellent and has a lot of important information	defacto7	May 2014	#87
Thank you for this....	bettyellen	May 2014	#94
Thanks bettyellen.	sheshe2	May 2014	#188
I will be so glad when the day arrives that these threads are no longer needed....	steve2470	May 2014	#96
"Men, feminists are our allies ! " ahhhhh.	seabeyond	May 2014	#98
glad I could make you smile	steve2470	May 2014	#99
So basically this thread turned into a textbook example of the behavior.	MadrasT	May 2014	#124
K&R nt	stevenleser	May 2014	#132
"Why is it not helpful to say “not all men are like that”?"	baldguy	May 2014	#153
see here, went over like a lead balloon, sorry to say.	boston bean	May 2014	#160
cartoons made about it. blogs... people all over the net talking about "notallmen". men and	seabeyond	May 2014	#163
k and r, and sighing for the expected backlash.	niyad	May 2014	#166
C'est la vie, niyad.	sheshe2	May 2014	#192
Teach your sons	smallcat88	May 2014	#167
K & R	SunSeeker	May 2014	#179
red pillers must be short... they keep saying #no tall men	paulkienitz	May 2014	#184
Yes, yes, yes	me b zola	May 2014	#189
Thanks, sheshe2. The whole column, especially the tweets, is/are great.	spooky3	May 2014	#190
K & R	Raksha	May 2014	#193
And yet wouldn't a lot of "This man is not like that"	DirkGently	May 2014	#196
Read the article. nt	sheshe2	May 2014	#198
The answers are in the article, which is awesome....	bettyellen	May 2014	#214
Kicking...	sheshe2	May 2014	#206

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