That meme apologizing for Ukrainian fascism...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. Your posts are treasure troves for logical fallacies.

Begging the question (especially that one), association fallacy, red herrings, strawmen, loaded questions, ad hominem--you pretty much cover it all.

You self-promote well. I'll give you that much.

Your ultimate point is, well, I just don't know. It's all a jumbled mess. But clearly you want to us to believe that a) there was a western-backed coup in Ukraine and b) the Ukrainian government is fascist and neo-Nazi. (You use the term "fascist" six times in the post above and "neo-Nazi" once). It's reactionary, hysterical language across the board without actual constructing a fact-based narrative out of the jumble.

Of all that you've said, I can agree with you that Yatsenyuk liked the West, and the West liked Yatsenyuk. Great--we agree on that. But what of it? The West likes lots of foreign leaders, and not all of them are bad. Yatsenyuk's not a fascist, and I don't believe you are calling him one (At least I don't think--with you, I just can never know). And the mere fact that certain figures in the West may have liked Yatsenyuk and desired to see him in charge in Ukraine doesn't mean they meticulously planned out a specific plan in which Yanukovych would be forcibly removed from his office against his will, to be carried out by a specific small group of individuals. You've not shown that to be the case. The actual evidence on record (which you can see with your own eyes) doesn't support that to be the case, either. How did the "coup" happen? I've asked you over and over and over again, and you've never given me one single specific shred of evidence to support your claim.

Do me a favor. Please don't strawman me. I've well read up on historical situations in places like Iran and Chile where unfortunately the United States has dirty hands in involving itself in and helping to plan out actual coups. Here's the thing, though. Those were actual coups. What happened in Ukraine was not an actual coup. And nothing that happened in Ukraine in February 2014 was remotely similar to what happened in places like Iran or Chile. Just because the US has historically been involved in some regime changes doesn't mean it is involved in every single regime change that there is. People in other countries can in fact rise up on their own without us making them do so.

The sad fact of the matter is I don't even know where you are trying to go with the whole "fascism" angle. Obviously, it's a scary word that evokes serious implications. How exactly it works into your "western led coup in Ukraine" conspiracy theory, I'm still trying to figure out. Do you even know how it's supposed to play into your argument? Again, I have to wonder if you've amped up on the "fascism" angle just as a means to distract from the fact that you can't prove the "western led coup in Ukraine" theory.

Listen. Svoboda is Svoboda is Svoboda and that's pretty much it. They were a small minority party when Yanukovych was in power, they're a small minority party after Yanukovych left, and most likely they'll continue to be a small minority party down the road. They've managed to ride some of the spoils of the parliamentary system of government in gaining a few cabinet seats for the time being; whether they actual hold onto those seats come next parliamentary election remains in doubt. Because they are a far-right party and I myself do not consider myself to be far-right, I personally would prefer they would not to have any meaningful positions of power in the government. But as a factor in Ukraine, they've been made out to be a roaring tempest in ultimately the tiniest of teapots.

The face of the Ukrainian government is not Svoboda. The face of the Ukrainian government is not fascist. The face of the Ukrainian government is not neo-Nazis. To argue otherwise is grossly disingenuous. However, being grossly disingenuous doesn't seem to be a restraining factor when it comes to your postings.