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Igel

(35,296 posts)
14. It's not "one size fits all."
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 10:27 AM
Jul 2014

There are instances--high-ranking military targets, munitions, fighters--in buildings with civilians. The civilians get it. "Proof" is often sufficient to establish likelihood, but usually in these cases "proof" for some will be a list of each and every item or person destroyed with the list of those people who'd have been killed by them if not destroyed. In other words, the level of proof skyrockets when you don't like the most probable verdict.

In such cases, though, the ultimate responsibility is going to be upon those who were responsible for protecting the civilians during armed conflict. And that's going to be the fighters and government who put them at risk. In these cases--it seems important to reiterate that clause each and every time because otherwise it might be taken as a blanket statement--the responsibility is Hamas'. It's not blaming the victim. It's blaming the guilty, even if they're also victims. One can be both quite easily.


There are also instances where those hurling the bombs people do bad things. If you like to think that your side is composed of innocents and angels and the other side composed of devils and demons, so be it. But there will be cases where a school is hit, possibly by accident or possibly because they believed there was a legitimate target.


Or perhaps because their standard of proof for making something a viable military target is simply lower than yours. This is a common problem because all the talk of "proportionate" and "sufficient" is non-quantifiable. It's also a common problem because people in groups make very far-reaching assumptions to justify those they self-group with or those they are in solidarity with, and equally far-reaching assumptions to denigrate those that they put on the other side of the group line or feel antipathy for. In any event, we're not really important enough as judges and officers of the court to merit having all the evidence sealed for our perusal. What we get from each side is for the court of public opinion, which is a far cry from any sort of legal proceedings.


Sometimes "war crimes" requires intent; sometimes the word seems to require at least negligence, failing to avoid something that could have been avoided and which was easily predicted *in advance* (we're all very good at predicting things after the fact); sometimes it just requires an outcome that people don't like, even if it couldn't have been predicted and negligence is a hard case to prove.

K&R.... daleanime Jul 2014 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #2
proof? bigtree Jul 2014 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #4
those weren't the schools where casualties occurred from Israeli bombing bigtree Jul 2014 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #7
What about the rockets that are destrying Gaza? U4ikLefty Jul 2014 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #8
K&R ReRe Jul 2014 #9
No Doubt... So Very Lopsided... ChiciB1 Jul 2014 #10
K&R! The Neo-Con war mongers are still hoping to spark that greater Middle East war. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #11
kick bigtree Jul 2014 #12
It's a disgrace Bettie Jul 2014 #13
It's not "one size fits all." Igel Jul 2014 #14
I don't see fine lines here bigtree Jul 2014 #16
Well I would also include the ones who financed it, you know, the USA CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #15
absolutely bigtree Jul 2014 #17
Are there really DUers blaming the civilians? onenote Jul 2014 #18
why do you consider this to be directed toward DUers? bigtree Jul 2014 #20
I asked a question. I guess you've answered it. onenote Jul 2014 #21
thank you for the opportunity bigtree Jul 2014 #25
Hamas is responsible for Hamas Scootaloo Jul 2014 #28
Just imagine ... LannyDeVaney Jul 2014 #19
Or imagine... oberliner Jul 2014 #22
Both, well-condemned from the left Scootaloo Jul 2014 #27
or if *Russia* did MisterP Jul 2014 #29
Its hard for me to believe history will judge this as more than ongoing skirmish in an endless war aikoaiko Jul 2014 #23
K& R !!!!! Pisces Jul 2014 #24
If you believe Israel's word that they aren't targeting civilians PAProgressive28 Jul 2014 #26
. bigtree Jul 2014 #30
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