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TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
122. First, I don't have kids
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 11:37 PM
Sep 2014

so I can't say anything about parenting from parental experience. I can say though that I had parents who were excellent and raised six of us with all different personalities, issues, quirks, etc. I was the last one, so what I know of their parenting comes from a position of their having had 10 years of practice before I was born, however, all my other siblings behaved and learned and reacted in pretty much the same way with them.

I've had infinitely more success in training my dogs when finally approaching my relationship with them in much the same way as my parents did with us kids.... sooooo much became clear about why something wasn't working and what it was that I was doing wrong. The biggest thing is that parenting children is very similar to training a dog in that children need to be shown boundaries and that there are consequences for crossing them. Both children and dogs are most content and better behaved when they are given clear cut boundaries concerning behavior so they know what is expected and why and can reason with themselves concerning whether or not something they want is worth stepping over those boundaries because they know the consequences.

It's structure. Both children and dogs are simple minded... they need and crave structure in their life because they're lost and confused without it. Imagine it as the difference between a child within the structure of a room where they know where all the walls are, where the door is, what's in the room, etc. and the non-structure of a busy shopping mall with seemingly endless mile wide aisles, innumerable stores, innumerable sounds, and people going in every direction most of which is unknown, unknowable and changes constantly. The non-structure environment of the shopping mall is too big, too uncertain, too confusing... it's just too much. Whereas the structure of the room is simple and easy to understand without a plethora of unknowns. The room is calming and creates a sense of well-being because it is knowable whereas the busy shopping mall creates stress and confusion in all its changing and unknowableness.

A parent just like a dog owner needs to show a leader attitude. A child just like a dog needs to know intuitively that the parent is the leader, the decider, the rewarder and the disciplinarian. My parents behaved like leaders... the very way they carried themselves in both uninteresting situations as well as chaotic situations spoke volumes. Leaders don't get unduly upset or confused or exasperated. They are calm, strong and face any situation head-on immediately and decisively and follow through and in doing so are always dependable.

I can't even recall there being a time where either my mom or dad would walk into a room without the innate sense of us kids that the leader just walked into the room. They usually didn't have to do anything about poor behavior other than give a certain look. It's just an attitude of authority... I'M the mommy/daddy. To a child or a dog that attitude of authority is a COMFORT. Children and dogs NEED and CRAVE a constant authoritative figure and look for that in their parents/owner. Every time a parent or dog owner acts with authority it is reassurance to the child or dog that all is well, the leader is on the ball, I can look to them to handle problems and satisfy my needs/wants.

When boundaries aren't clearly established both kids and dogs will act out and challenge the parent/owner in order to find out where those boundaries are because they need structure to their lives, and they only become confused when the boundaries they do find by their acting out are inconsistent and/or the authority figure can't be relied on to be the authority figure in that they act too irrational, become unduly upset or unduly catatonic, etc. even if that sort of behavior of the authority figure only happens sometimes... if it happens sometimes that tells the child or dog that the leader is unreliable and can't be depended on.

None of us kids ever had these wild screaming tantrums. Ever. We'd get upset or frustrated or cry, but none of us ever had any kind of screaming fit that I've seen so many other kids do and have heard about from parents of children. And that's probably because from such an early age where we were able to even make sense of anything we already knew that our parents were dependable authority figures that gave us structure and boundaries. We already knew that screaming and kicking or throwing things wasn't going to get us anywhere, was going to produce unwanted results immediately, and because we could rely on the authority figures unquestionably we never felt the need to have a wild screaming fit. I'll always believe these wild screaming flailing fits are the result of a confused child trying to gain structure and locate boundaries they require that haven't already been instilled unquestionably by the parents.

As others have said, family dinner time at the table is important to establish structure and for the parents to show their authority. Kids learn during dinner time with the family what good behavior is and what it isn't. Allowing your daughter to eat dinner on her own at the coffee table watching tv taught her that SHE owns dinner time. It's HERS. She isn't sharing the meal with others, the coffee table while she's eating belongs to her for as long as she wants it when she wants it, and so does the tv. Stop that now.

Her refusing to do anything she's told is because whatever parenting was done or not done showed her that SHE is the authority figure and gets to decide herself is she wants to comply or not. No child ever gets to have that authority, and they only think they have it when parents drop the ball in making it absolutely clear that they don't have that authority and that the parents do. Always.

Ignoring bad behavior doesn't either make it go away or teach the child that it's not acceptable. ALL bad behavior must be addressed immediately and consistently. A child just like a dog needs to be taught that certain behavior is not acceptable and you aren't teaching them anything by ignoring it other than they can behave badly and get away with it.

No child should ever be watching more than an hour or two of tv each day. The tv is not a babysitter and teaches them nothing. Children need to learn to do other things instead of watching tv. I've never been much of a tv watcher and for many years now only own one to watch movies while I'm doing something else since I CAN'T just sit in front of the tv without doing something. As kids we were only allowed to have 2 hours a WEEK of tv time, and I'm thrilled about it. I learned to love reading, doing crafts, talking or playing with others... soooo much that had I been just sitting in front of the boob tube I never would have learned, and those hours with the tv would just have rotted my brain. Most tv time in my family was spent as a family with all of us or most of us watching something. Even now watching something on tv just isn't any fun all by myself. I can't even fathom why people find it necessary to have a gazillion different channels 24/7 anyway, and I've never had cable (the very idea of actually paying good money for tv makes my stomach churn). I grew up during a time when there were three network channels, PBS, two UHF channels, they all went dark at midnight, and you had to actually get off your ass and go to the tv to change the channel. And that's plenty especially with the absolute garbage on tv these days. TV is a plague. The more you can teach your kids not to watch it the better off they'll be.

It's not an easy situation. HuckleB Sep 2014 #1
Hitting your child isn't going to make things better. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #2
But what could I have done? peabody Sep 2014 #5
The not-spanking seems like an important piece of the puzzle. Orsino Sep 2014 #50
Tasers, Mace (Police approved)? How about a big game tranq rifle? Katashi_itto Sep 2014 #141
What would you have done if you were in my situation? peabody Sep 2014 #11
I don't know what I would have done, I know what I would not have done. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #78
Move the coffee table. mercuryblues Sep 2014 #100
That's the magic bullet right there Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #126
BINGO laundry_queen Sep 2014 #135
So, what's the solution? nt ChisolmTrailDem Sep 2014 #24
She "refused" to go to her room? hlthe2b Sep 2014 #3
I'm totally in agreement with you. dballance Sep 2014 #106
Yeah, that stood out to me too. laundry_queen Sep 2014 #136
consistency is critical elehhhhna Sep 2014 #4
My wife always say's that.... Koch Ebola Sep 2014 #6
Yes, my wife and I are peabody Sep 2014 #10
If she wouldn't go to her room voluntarily, B2G Sep 2014 #7
Same here. Any screaming = no tv for 2 hours (young kids don't have a good idea of time FSogol Sep 2014 #12
I agree... Making a child take responsibility for their own behavior by apologizing to the neighbor hlthe2b Sep 2014 #17
And it she didn't stay, B2G Sep 2014 #20
My Mom would paddle me and my sister, but I never did that to my sons. (or had to) FSogol Sep 2014 #21
As I stated in another thread, B2G Sep 2014 #27
I wasn't commenting on you personally with my comments. It is more of an FSogol Sep 2014 #29
That is the answer.. Oktober Sep 2014 #31
My father use to hit me pretty hard when he peabody Sep 2014 #52
"I vowed never to treat my kids that way" Awesome. FSogol Sep 2014 #54
OK. You probably won't like this, but it sounds like cali Sep 2014 #8
This sound like a good idea peabody Sep 2014 #14
striking a child is what you wish to avoid. cali Sep 2014 #25
My family always ate together cwydro Sep 2014 #140
I don't have kids myself, mythology Sep 2014 #9
There's something you didn't mention trying. pnwmom Sep 2014 #13
Humm, I'll try that next time. peabody Sep 2014 #22
This might help: abelenkpe Sep 2014 #36
"How to Talk so Kids Will Listen" is the book my sisters and I used when our kids were young. SalviaBlue Sep 2014 #115
I used the whisper routine enlightenment Sep 2014 #39
Great post, enlightenment. And you're right that this kind of response can take a long time, pnwmom Sep 2014 #46
I was lucky to have parents enlightenment Sep 2014 #60
Your parents were very unusual for their generation. You were lucky. And so were your children. n/t pnwmom Sep 2014 #62
They were, and I was - and the kid turned out okay, too! Thanks. :) n/t enlightenment Sep 2014 #65
"okay, are you done now?" SoCalDem Sep 2014 #112
Here's a book about validating that I think you might like. It's short and has plenty of examples. pnwmom Sep 2014 #49
Thank you. peabody Sep 2014 #82
There aren't easy answers. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #15
that's a beautiful story. cali Sep 2014 #26
material at the link is very good treestar Sep 2014 #53
That's the kind of dad I tried to be. hunter Sep 2014 #98
I know that growing up LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #99
Just a suggestion, but... pipi_k Sep 2014 #16
Tsst! Lol! beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #44
Hahahaha!!! pipi_k Sep 2014 #59
Oh you definitely have to see it then. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #72
I want to add to your post by saying SheilaT Sep 2014 #101
Well, you could start by turning off the tv TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #18
That's what we're trying to do right now peabody Sep 2014 #28
Two things to share with you: phylny Sep 2014 #119
my question would be, why the hell is an 8 yr old behaving like this? seabeyond Sep 2014 #19
even the best kids have their bad days, or at least their bad moments. unblock Sep 2014 #34
we are talking 8. words work. not two. i do not agree. seabeyond Sep 2014 #35
sounds great, but it doesn't always work that way. unblock Sep 2014 #43
Every kid is different, seaybeyond. I had a niece who was a screamer -- even at that age -- pnwmom Sep 2014 #55
Agree with this Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #130
Yeah. I had some pretty good boundaries and they worked really great on 3 out of my 4 kids. Arkansas Granny Sep 2014 #69
That's what I would look for. Kid could be in some kind of pain but Cleita Sep 2014 #76
If the child had emotional problems or was on the autism spectrum MadrasT Sep 2014 #116
i totally agree. seabeyond Sep 2014 #117
How much sugar are your kids having? iscooterliberally Sep 2014 #23
"let's have a good scream: 1-2-3 AAARRRGGGHHH!" unblock Sep 2014 #30
Interesting idea! peabody Sep 2014 #38
i didn't think of it as humor at first, not until he started laughing. unblock Sep 2014 #45
My grandfather did something similar. shrike Sep 2014 #77
I've been known to use the old: Tsiyu Sep 2014 #134
You monster.. Oktober Sep 2014 #32
Take away her audience - TBF Sep 2014 #33
Through the ordeal, I was taking away privileges. peabody Sep 2014 #42
My youngest is the one who would TBF Sep 2014 #92
To my eyes, your incident last night is the result of a lot of small bad decisions over the years. Brickbat Sep 2014 #37
She sounds like my kindergartener. I try to distract her and it sometimes works. I would like to jwirr Sep 2014 #40
I sent this book to my daughter. I think it's one of the best for this topic. pnwmom Sep 2014 #66
You could try a kneeling or seated cradle assist. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #41
Many good suggestions on this thread. Ilsa Sep 2014 #47
lots of good suggestions here--and I wouldn't rule out filming or threatening to film it zazen Sep 2014 #48
First thing you do - put yourself in time out until you calm down. Avalux Sep 2014 #51
Thank you. It took all I had just peabody Sep 2014 #57
You're welcome! Avalux Sep 2014 #64
Oh man, peabody Sep 2014 #73
It's not easy! Avalux Sep 2014 #103
Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #56
Why? Do you think we are all horrible parents? Avalux Sep 2014 #58
Actually, the advice peabody Sep 2014 #63
Getting a monkey to throw darts at a board is also a method. BKH70041 Sep 2014 #67
So you disagree with phil89 Sep 2014 #70
LOL. Somebody has a sad. My theory: He had Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson on his fantasy team. FSogol Sep 2014 #79
Slam! tazkcmo Sep 2014 #107
Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #137
DU will just pretend this never happens LittleBlue Sep 2014 #61
And when the do call CPS tazkcmo Sep 2014 #108
Make a chart of when you kids act up like this. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #68
When the kid gets old enough shenmue Sep 2014 #71
My tried and true mercuryblues Sep 2014 #120
Children do not know limits. kentuck Sep 2014 #74
This takes more questions before giving advice. nolabear Sep 2014 #75
The neighbor has every right to complain! yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #80
Not a parent, but physical force can be used without spanking. moriah Sep 2014 #81
That is a tough one. I go with firmness and removal. riqster Sep 2014 #83
I have a few thoughts gollygee Sep 2014 #84
My Mom used fear as a tactic... kentuck Sep 2014 #85
Check with your local agencies for free parenting classes. peace13 Sep 2014 #86
Our parents always grounded us to our rooms notadmblnd Sep 2014 #87
it all starts with you librechik Sep 2014 #88
Taking away privileges in the middle of a screaming fit is unlikely to work because winter is coming Sep 2014 #89
Thank you all for the advice. It helps peabody Sep 2014 #90
My original response has a know-it-all tone and I want to apologize for that. I'm wishing you Brickbat Sep 2014 #91
If I had to recommend a "parenting manual" to anyone, it'd probably be that Parent Survival Training moriah Sep 2014 #93
Another book suggestion gollygee Sep 2014 #94
Does your local municipality have one of these? Glassunion Sep 2014 #95
Pick her up carry her to her room GitRDun Sep 2014 #96
MOST if not all of these solutions STILL.. STILL require something "physical" to happen... uponit7771 Sep 2014 #97
Not my solution. I disagree that something physical has to happen. n/t Avalux Sep 2014 #104
I might suggest... jberryhill Sep 2014 #102
Pat on your back tazkcmo Sep 2014 #105
K and R for the reasons you site. thucythucy Sep 2014 #110
That's an extreme reaction. Feral Child Sep 2014 #109
She does get extreme but right now peabody Sep 2014 #113
I understand your position. Feral Child Sep 2014 #114
Please do file in the back of your mind MadrasT Sep 2014 #118
Perhaps this. SoCalDem Sep 2014 #111
You didn't reason logically enough customerserviceguy Sep 2014 #121
First, I don't have kids TorchTheWitch Sep 2014 #122
brave post marym625 Sep 2014 #123
You should have done this U4ikLefty Sep 2014 #124
Parenting isn't easy Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #125
What should you do? Let your kids play minecraft sometimes. No, Seriously. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #127
LOL gollygee Sep 2014 #129
Totally. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #131
My kids don't watch TV either gollygee Sep 2014 #132
Except now my kids flip out Codeine Sep 2014 #139
Have a friend ready on such occasions Shankapotomus Sep 2014 #128
It sounds like you need to take back control of your own home first. avebury Sep 2014 #133
call... boston bean Sep 2014 #138
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