General Discussion

frazzled

(18,402 posts)

67. Indeed, but the question is:

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:20 AM

Dec 2014

Once this has happened, it's a reality. And then what do you do about it? This was a problem that began many decades ago. Complaining about what happened in the past is fine, but it doesn't do anything to change the present situation regarding the funds. There appear to be two solutions: insolvency, so that nobody gets anything after x number of years; or make some changes in the benefits. Most of the unions apparently supported this "pension reform act" as opposed to the other option. (There of course would have been a third option: for the government to come in with a bailout. Not going to happen with this Congress).

So I always have to ask the question: what would you do about this situation? How would you solve it? Remember, you can't go back and change the past. You've got a problem on the table. What's the least horrible solution?

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I gotta rant on the pension cuts in the funding bill, it made my 77 year old mom cry! [View all] Dustlawyer Dec 2014 OP

Some years ago, pensions were 'sacrosanct.' elleng Dec 2014 #1

I'm so sorry. marym625 Dec 2014 #2

Getting rid of Landrau was a good beginning. Hoppy Dec 2014 #3

Ya think? pacalo Dec 2014 #14

Knuckledragging mouth breather? Enthusiast Dec 2014 #44

Who the hell's that?!! KansDem Dec 2014 #73

some have a hard time of thinking past their immediate,foremost concern to the consequences belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #78

The guy looks psycho! Herman Munster without makeup. Elmer S. E. Dump Dec 2014 #143

They're not Democrats. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #7

Are we approaching the "tipping point" of an outright revolution? olegramps Dec 2014 #82

Yes !!! geretogo Dec 2014 #122

I agree marym625. dotymed Dec 2014 #90

real question: why the hell would they? most movement Dems won't risk having a Pub win, MisterP Dec 2014 #99

I was treading lightly marym625 Dec 2014 #101

oh, there *are* plenty of liberal Dems in Congress, but the leadership is all bankster MisterP Dec 2014 #103

"Plenty" is a poor choice of words. salib Dec 2014 #133

I calculated that it'd take 74 Dem Senate seats for the "worthwhile Dems" MisterP Dec 2014 #138

I'm so sorry! And I'm even more sorry that excuses are being made for this. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #4

Thanks! Bernie has made getting rid of campaign contributions his number 1 issue! Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #19

Yes, everyone has to get involved. And I am for boycotts and strikes, don't buy their stuff sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #20

I am afraid you are right. The Plutocrats have been very adept at getting us to blame each other Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #23

It Will Get Worse Joe Worker Dec 2014 #38

welcome to DU! WhiteTara Dec 2014 #57

Thank You Joe Worker Dec 2014 #151

Yes, it will get worse. Unless the people WAKE UP and stop protecting whichever team sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #132

... 840high Dec 2014 #87

It's Just Plain Criminal colsohlibgal Dec 2014 #5

Pension Looting. Baitball Blogger Dec 2014 #10

a bunch of dems voted for it too, and another dem is going to sign it Doctor_J Dec 2014 #18

No fan of the thirdway "stir-the-economy now" and "sacrifice the future" types either. Baitball Blogger Dec 2014 #30

I agree. "Pension looting." We must make it a household term. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #45

Can't just blame Repubs. 840high Dec 2014 #88

Here's a good explanation of what has happened frazzled Dec 2014 #6

Here's a better explanation: they stole it. Like they're going to steal SS and everything NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #11

Who stole it? The union run pension plan? I am particularly asking about the Central Teamsters. nt kelly1mm Dec 2014 #109

Was it union run? Read the OP. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #131

This sub-thread is about the recent multi-employer, union run pension plan changes kelly1mm Dec 2014 #135

This subthread is about the Teamsters Central States Plan. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #136

So, who should pay? The crime bosses? The "federal court" that supervises the fund? kelly1mm Dec 2014 #139

no, you just have to worry about your 401k tanking for various reasons. unless NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #142

With the employer match of 125% of contributions, the ability to put some/all in safe investments, kelly1mm Dec 2014 #144

I don't buy that story. If there were four workers to every retiree, rhett o rick Dec 2014 #13

here's what really happened with that pension fund....Wall Street ran it antigop Dec 2014 #24

This explantion is the most believable. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #47

Now that I can believe. Here's what happened to a person I know. rhett o rick Dec 2014 #65

In a civilized society, sulphurdunn Dec 2014 #75

When I tell that story, I like to add: "Guess who are the Republicans and who are the Democrats in rhett o rick Dec 2014 #77

Similar to Enron. Flatulo Dec 2014 #97

Funny you should mention Enron. Honest, I have another friend that worked for rhett o rick Dec 2014 #128

Death was too easy an escape for Ken Lay. Flatulo Dec 2014 #150

I don't believe he is dead. Just sayin'. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #155

Well, if anyone had the means and motive to buy Flatulo Dec 2014 #156

sounds like it was invested it grew to 18 billion but now belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #83

I don't know about Bethlehem but I worked at Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel. In 2003 we went to a doc03 Dec 2014 #104

see post #24 for what really happened... nt antigop Dec 2014 #25

Bethlehem Steel ex-employees also lost their health insurance Number9Dream Dec 2014 #41

Yes, it has been so hard on them. The American Dream is really a nightmare. Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #50

"not enough monies coming into" < That's a lie. The money was being siphoned off by thieves in jtuck004 Dec 2014 #46

They better hope they never come accross my mom, she is one tough cookie and would really Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #63

You've got a lot of the cause in there... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #56

Indeed, but the question is: frazzled Dec 2014 #67

Given what we've got to work with at this moment in time? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #70

Pretty damned simple: The Green Manalishi Dec 2014 #96

The government should bail out the retirement funds and tax the shit out of the wealthy-assed rhett o rick Dec 2014 #129

Here is what the business section of the Wash. Post is not telling you Joe Worker Dec 2014 #149

Our legislators should be looking for ways to protect us from corporate thievery pacalo Dec 2014 #8

They work directly for the corporations now Doctor_J Dec 2014 #12

You know what I was wondering today, pacalo Samantha Dec 2014 #17

Sam, there's nothing too strange to imagine now that republicans will have the majority. pacalo Dec 2014 #27

The main reason for the ginormous pension reserve is to make it look like the PO is drowning Doremus Dec 2014 #95

it's the best we can do, given the political climate Doctor_J Dec 2014 #9

This is one of the most untold stories in America. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #15

I brought this up not because it is personal and really pissed me off, but because it is so Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #21

It is widespread and needs to be addressed, but mountain grammy Dec 2014 #61

This bill will encourage companies to take more risk knowing they can use the pensions liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #16

Everything that is wrong in our world is here in your post. Cleita Dec 2014 #22

SAME EXACT BETHLEHEM STEEL STORY HERE! Pension "Guaranty" HAHAHA! Corps totally messed her up! WinkyDink Dec 2014 #26

It's a damn shame winterwar Dec 2014 #28

How could anyone with a conscience vote for this? NaturalHigh Dec 2014 #29

Completely agree! Nm Heather Kube Dec 2014 #34

Please get your story told to every Republican possible SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2014 #31

They will say Obama pushed for it and many Democrats voted for it, and stillwaiting Dec 2014 #39

We can't be worrying about the status quo. By getting this and SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2014 #114

THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHY IT PISSES PEOPLE OFF WHEN SOMEONE SAYS... Ykcutnek Dec 2014 #32

I can't believe it. Its so important that people like you tell your Heather Kube Dec 2014 #33

The injustice done to your parents and the other workers and spouses is vile suffragette Dec 2014 #35

Its Autocratic Theft And Pillage Joe Worker Dec 2014 #36

Not only did they not cut their own pensions, the clowns who voted for this Trailrider1951 Dec 2014 #40

I was also angry daredtowork Dec 2014 #37

This is what voting for "the lessor of two evils" gets us. 99Forever Dec 2014 #42

Amen!!! Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #52

And I'm so sorry about the awful way your parents have been treated. 99Forever Dec 2014 #55

This sucks, big time, Dustlawyer. I'm sorry your parents had to go through this. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #43

Hug to your Mom ctsnowman Dec 2014 #48

Huge K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #49

K&R. And some people question why some of us go ballistic over the idea bullwinkle428 Dec 2014 #51

Pension looting erodes corporate law and should be a federal crime with mandatory jail time. ancianita Dec 2014 #53

pension looting is a great bumper sticker slogan - and a good name for a bill in congress belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #85

While you don't tell us what years your dad worked, SheilaT Dec 2014 #54

There were also Poor Farms for the elderly. Lars39 Dec 2014 #60

Speaking of the amount of retirement his dad was supposed to get. Stellar Dec 2014 #62

I worked 40 years in the steel industry and get $1900 a month. Of course now that doc03 Dec 2014 #107

My Dad is 83. He was a union worker / truck mechanic for a utility company. DebJ Dec 2014 #124

There are a lot of members in that club Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #58

Maybe in all reality we need sorefeet Dec 2014 #59

cuz 'Murika!!! Roland99 Dec 2014 #64

Theft, pure & simple. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #66

Very sorry DL. Damn them for making all our lives harder than they have to be. raouldukelives Dec 2014 #68

They looted his pension, and Wall Street will loot our social security, closeupready Dec 2014 #69

The system is dead to us Dustlawyer. DeSwiss Dec 2014 #71

Severance agreements are suffering the same fate nichomachus Dec 2014 #72

Its all the damn unions' fault! Stonepounder Dec 2014 #74

Fox would have nothing to say to the trade deal with Japan that allowed them to glut our market Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #86

I feel the same way, Dustlawyer ReRe Dec 2014 #76

This is an absolute disgrace! CountAllVotes Dec 2014 #79

sad what this country has come to marions ghost Dec 2014 #80

Your story leaves out many facts. former9thward Dec 2014 #81

oh you with your facts dont you know youre ruining the rage du jour belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #84

Yes, but I don't want a 77 year old worried over nothing. former9thward Dec 2014 #92

AARP: Letter to the House and Senate on the Unacceptable Plan for Pensions Zorra Dec 2014 #91

Exactly as I said. former9thward Dec 2014 #93

Did Congress stipulate that this change ONLY applied to multi-employer plans? Zorra Dec 2014 #102

I don't have the language of the bill former9thward Dec 2014 #106

Two words for you... YvonneCa Dec 2014 #121

Not necessarily I worked for Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel and the PBGC froze our plan doc03 Dec 2014 #111

You may be wrong about their pension. I worked 40 years at Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel our doc03 Dec 2014 #110

It applies to all multi employer plans. former9thward Dec 2014 #112

I doubt they are actually getting it from Bethlehem, they liquidated, it probably comes from the doc03 Dec 2014 #113

I worked for Republic and then LTV. former9thward Dec 2014 #115

Same here I worked for Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel and get a doc03 Dec 2014 #119

In my opinion the two worst things to affect our doc03 Dec 2014 #120

You are correct, PBGC, her $17.00 a month is three weeks of gas at current prices. I hope Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #140

I get a laugh out of that one they won't cut it if you are doc03 Dec 2014 #117

In your opinion, would this affect PA municipal retirees system? Number9Dream Dec 2014 #153

No, they are not affected by the bill. former9thward Dec 2014 #154

It was with the union, but once the company failed, it became administered by PBGC, a government Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #137

"Attack us"???? former9thward Dec 2014 #145

If that is the case I apologize, I am having a lot of medical issues and a little shorter fuse than Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #146

Let's hope you get well and best wishes to your mother. former9thward Dec 2014 #147

Your post leaves out many facts Joe Worker Dec 2014 #152

and what the hell are we/can we heaven05 Dec 2014 #89

Wyden Criticizes House Proposal On Multiemployer Pensions Zorra Dec 2014 #94

What the hell ever happened to the notion of a 'contract'? Flatulo Dec 2014 #98

The validity and terms of a contract are directly proportionate to the wealth possessed Zorra Dec 2014 #105

True, that's what lawyers do mostly, these days. nt Flatulo Dec 2014 #157

Thisis part of the mission of the Republicans, Walmart, Koch brothers and other large sammy750 Dec 2014 #100

This is horrible shireen Dec 2014 #108

Hundreds of Thousands WillTwain Dec 2014 #116

Thieving and lying corporatist bastards. lpbk2713 Dec 2014 #118

Go ahead I am mstinamotorcity2 Dec 2014 #123

That's horrible. BeanMusical Dec 2014 #125

Who voted? Who votes? Who participates in the process. Not many. Shame on these people. YOHABLO Dec 2014 #126

I'll keep saying this until they kick me out of here... americannightmare Dec 2014 #127

Bump..nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #130

GOP tooeyeten Dec 2014 #134

Kick !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #141

it makes me cry too. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2014 #148