General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

63. In one sense it is

Mon Dec 29, 2014, 02:31 PM

Dec 2014

Consider one very powerful political group, although one that curiously does not seem quite as powerful as it did - the AARP. The AARP was NOT a branch of either political party, but NEITHER political party wanted to mess with it in the 1970s.

So if you look at the "progressive wing" of the Democratic Party. Okay that's fine, maybe we have some candidates who can win some primary elections, but once the primary is over, we are water-carriers for the Democratic Party.

I, for one, would certainly LOVE to see the Democratic Party be a party for the bottom 60%, for the working people of America. But why stop there? In theory, BOTH parties should be supporting the bottom 80%. That's a huge majority, but for some reason, NEITHER party is doing so. Instead Republicans blatantly represent the top 5% and Democrats the next 15% and BOTH are right there BS-ing the bottom 80%.

If there was an AAWP that was strong enough, in theory, we could get BOTH parties to represent the WORKING people of America.

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Let’s abandon the Democrats: Stop blaming Fox News and stop hoping Elizabeth Warren will save us [View all] Autumn Dec 2014 OP

We already did. It gave us the election upaloopa Dec 2014 #1

Did you read the article? Autumn Dec 2014 #3

Sure the way to avoid what happened upaloopa Dec 2014 #15

If the Democrats don't run Liberal candidates, then Liberals won't vote Democratic. Maedhros Dec 2014 #30

They have a cognitive disconnect. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #31

You don't offer any ideas of how that is going upaloopa Dec 2014 #86

How is it going to happen? Maedhros Dec 2014 #99

I think we have a victim mentality which upaloopa Dec 2014 #106

I think you, and those who push your ideas, have a defeatist mentality. Maedhros Dec 2014 #108

Bernie is not one....still not a Democrat... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #110

Bernie is actually what Democrats should be like. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #163

and still not one...if he is such a perfect hero why does he need our party at all?j VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #217

Nobody is perfect, and you have it wrong. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #225

then why doeshe need to be a Democrat to win? hmmmmmm? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #231

Party myopia I guess. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2015 #233

whateverthefuck that means VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #247

Think harder then. It's not a very complex thing to understand...for most. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2015 #248

or some think being unnecessarily cryptic makes them VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #249

Like I wrote. Try to think harder. It'll come to you if you have an open mind. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2015 #250

like I said whateverthefuck VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #251

"I am not going to go out of my way to decypher your insults..." R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2015 #252

whats to handle? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #254

I mentioned that I answered you upthread. No mystery there. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2015 #256

Hey! While we're disagreeing over there The Shredder Jan 2015 #266

what is wrong with you? "where are they going to come from?" wtf? the party could find NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #142

Them? upaloopa Dec 2014 #161

Of course it will affect me. I can't even find out where the local Democratic party MEETS, let NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #162

Don't they have a website? JDPriestly Jan 2015 #257

the victim mentality is with the party. "if they (the voters) don't give us what we want we'll just NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #144

The candidates are who the DCCC and DSCC want them to be. merrily Dec 2014 #170

False. Phlem Dec 2014 #200

Well did you think life was a bed of roses upaloopa Dec 2014 #205

The real world is one in which we vote for democrats & things will get worse. Good to know. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #207

Things do not remain the same. I believe if upaloopa Dec 2014 #208

Now you're saying something different than you were. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #220

I have PTSD from early childhood abuse. Phlem Dec 2014 #211

Why do you hate centrist Democratic virtues??!! R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #160

It's also how Democrats run and what they deliver or fail to deliver if elected. merrily Dec 2014 #168

I have watched this happen since I voted for JFK. Why do we always have to learn the jwirr Dec 2014 #186

I don't "stay home" on election day. Maedhros Dec 2014 #213

Fine I hear you but do you hear me? There are people who need the protection of those safety net jwirr Dec 2014 #219

I do hear you. Maedhros Dec 2014 #224

It's a slow frog march to the right. Phlem Jan 2015 #230

Then maybe Duers who are saying they will not vote should find a way to assure the people who jwirr Jan 2015 #234

All-righty then Phlem Jan 2015 #242

Hell no I am not the only one and I am damned glad of that but you just watch what happens jwirr Jan 2015 #243

OMG Phlem Jan 2015 #244

You are right. If our current Democrats were winning elections and protecting the safety JDPriestly Jan 2015 #258

So we shouldn't give up and we shouldn't run liberal candidates... SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #38

who have we run that is NOT a Liberal? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #111

When we won in 2006 and 2008, it was with Liberal and non-Liberal candidates... brooklynite Dec 2014 #70

The democratic party could have put up anyone and would still have won. Democrats and a lot Autumn Dec 2014 #80

and I happen to know Republican women who WILL vote for Hillary Clinton. ....yet you still oppose he VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #113

The fact that republicans will vote for Clinton is part of the democrats problem. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #127

they will vote for her BECAUSE she is a woman.....duh! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #129

Question... GummyBearz Dec 2014 #141

+100. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #146

No fair. You're using logic. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #166

did I say all Republican women? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #218

Those who would be likely to vote for Hillary because she is a woman will be even more likely JDPriestly Jan 2015 #259

Bingo! nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #130

not Bingo because that is NOT what I said.....I didn't once say they support her politics... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #132

palin palin palin she's a woman too, did you vote for her? NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #147

and I didn't say ALL republican women....I said I know SOME! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #131

HRC Ink Man Dec 2014 #197

They didn't win in 2008 AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #209

Oh boy Ink Man Dec 2014 #210

"slipped my mind" AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #212

And I happen to know Democratic women who WON'T vote for her Autumn Dec 2014 #135

then they are no longer Democrats....just like those R women will no longer be Republicans VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #137

Ya know Autumn Dec 2014 #138

No its not....its elementary my dear! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #140

oh bull. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #148

Independent means "not dependable" and thats a fact! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #216

Voting for a democrat doesn't make one a democrat, nor does voting for a republican make one a NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #221

Exactly. merrily Dec 2014 #173

Who ran on change from George Bush, among other things. merrily Dec 2014 #171

How about let's figure out finally why voters will no longer accept Republican Lite candidates sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #59

You are so right... People voted FOR many liberal candidates and issues they believed in... cascadiance Dec 2014 #75

What candidate are you planning to run which has not or will not accept corporate Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #81

I want a candidate that "won't accept funds for government influence"... cascadiance Dec 2014 #83

I do not see this happening in tge coming few years. DNC is in the minority on Congress Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #90

It won't happen as long as we continue to elect compromised candidates that do "pay to play"... cascadiance Dec 2014 #93

Did you realize the Democrats are in the minority in both the House and Senate? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #94

I do! And do you realize that this is why money needs to be taken out of politics? cascadiance Dec 2014 #98

Warren also took campaign funds from corporations, she understands campaigns needs big bucks Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #101

I think I've said multiple times I GET that just about all politicians take money... cascadiance Dec 2014 #102

I think it is more than corporate sympathic Democrats, the votes are not there, we have to change Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #103

At least speaking against money in politics is a first step... cascadiance Dec 2014 #104

Please see my reply 172 to Thinking About's claim that Warren merrily Dec 2014 #174

You are mistaken. merrily Dec 2014 #172

Are you calling Warren a liar? She admitted she had donors from Wall Street. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #176

Are you calling opensecrets.com a liar? merrily Dec 2014 #177

Go back and add up the amounts opensecrets.com listed, does it add up to Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #180

Show me where her biggest donors were corporations and you may have a point. merrily Dec 2014 #181

Maybe you could find out from opensecrets.com, they apparently missed lots Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #182

You're going in circles. I have already replied to everything in your merrily Dec 2014 #187

AmericanCrossroads? Karl Rove? Wow. RiverLover Dec 2014 #190

Then believe what she says, she said she has Wall Street donors and she spent Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #199

Other than American Crossroads, do you have another source? RiverLover Dec 2014 #201

The information opensecrets.com perhaps gave correct information but they did Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #204

who would THAT be? Anyone YOU don't like.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #123

Incredibly wrong. Scuba Dec 2014 #69

The way Democratic politicians governed and campaigned gave us merrily Dec 2014 #167

Is this an original writing, or a segment of another piece? 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #2

I forgot the link but I have edited the OP to add it Autumn Dec 2014 #5

Thanks. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #7

you do know this is DemocratcUnderground.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #4

You are aware that it is a discussion board. Right? Autumn Dec 2014 #6

you are aware there is this thing called the Internet VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #8

You have no interest in discussion, so there is Autumn Dec 2014 #9

no I have no interest in discussing Democrats VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #11

Weak. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #169

Autumn, she and the rest of her fellow Clintonites are pulling their own purity test davidpdx Dec 2014 #228

They can play their games. But they are right, I am no longer a Democrat. Autumn Jan 2015 #235

Whaaa?? RiverLover Jan 2015 #239

No I'm not joking. I went with unaffiliated Autumn Jan 2015 #240

Well there's plenty of time for you to cool off and change it back to help us RiverLover Jan 2015 #241

I think by early summer we'll have a good idea how the field is going to shape davidpdx Jan 2015 #253

well, bye bye WhiteTara Jan 2015 #255

well, bye bye to you too. Autumn Jan 2015 #261

If you read - or understood - the entire article, this is about why the Democrats lost djean111 Dec 2014 #12

no it isn't VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #14

Well, then, you disagree with the article. Noted! But - others of us will be reading it djean111 Dec 2014 #18

only those that want to see Republicans VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #21

VR, they don't get it, they'll never get it, and there's not a sliver of difference between BlueCaliDem Dec 2014 #67

+ Infinity VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #74

because the main reason the republicans have power today is that the democrats have been just NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #152

I'm no left leaning independent but a 3rd gen Dem. I think the post has a lot of value. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #84

so you will vote for HRC if she wins the nomination? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #85

If HRC is the nominee I will vote for her absolutely. No no way for Jeb, Rand Paul et al. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #89

gee that's really nice she was delightful. Because that is what we want in a president. nt ellenrr Dec 2014 #114

apparently it IS VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #117

I described her behavior at social event that's all. Voting is a different matter, when the brain appalachiablue Dec 2014 #124

Yes I will vote for her if she is the nominee. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #126

then you are not LLI! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #133

Ok. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #150

proof please.. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #109

baloney.....we lost because WE DON'T show up in the midterms....this is nothing new VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #115

Maybe YOU did not show up, but I did. At least, this time, you did not blame the "LLI"s....... djean111 Dec 2014 #125

Yes I did.....but this is a collective not just about you....we are called a "Party" for a reason... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #128

I am saying that I would not vote for a GOP woman no matter who she is. djean111 Dec 2014 #149

What are you suggesting? Caretha Dec 2014 #100

its not about THEM.....its about supporting US.....we are a collective...we elect candidates.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #134

Perhaps we should change it to DemocraticPartyUnderground... kentuck Dec 2014 #48

And it's NOT 3rd way underground - TBF Dec 2014 #73

the real Democrats here don't... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #77

What is "LLI"? TBF Dec 2014 #95

Left Leaning Independent... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #120

"the real democrats" lol NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #153

Whining again about a "discussion"??? nt Logical Dec 2014 #159

Any party that loses the ability to process constructive criticism... Man from Pickens Jan 2015 #260

Yeah, because ceding the field to the Repubs would be good for the country? Really? riqster Dec 2014 #10

Actually, that's pretty much what the author of the piece calls for. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #13

so now we are to discuss taking over the Republican Party? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #17

Obama was right. We are the change we need but the Democratic party Autumn Dec 2014 #20

not for Hillary Clinton.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #22

Supporting "Party" over "Policy" is how the Corporatists seized control of OUR party. Vincardog Dec 2014 #76

bullsit its about supporting your fellow Democrats VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #78

Bullshit it is about holding elected officials accountable to the people who voted for the. Vincardog Dec 2014 #79

When you reward bad behavior one thing happens, Autumn Dec 2014 #92

and they are not? Please do go on....love to hear this one! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #118

Please inform me, if we elect someone and they act against our interests Why should Vincardog Jan 2015 #229

who are you saying did this? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #232

I think it is time for you to elaborate why it is better to support Party over Policy. Vincardog Jan 2015 #245

because WE are the Party and I trust us.. VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #246

There is that snark. Give me a reason to support "democrats" who voted to guarantee all the Vincardog Jan 2015 #262

not at all snark... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #263

Ok you aren't willing to offer anything except DS Talking points and refuse every request Vincardog Jan 2015 #264

what talking points would that be? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #265

my fellow democrats don't support me; and as you concede, they select whom they like, without NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #154

you are 100% correct, but I do not expect the stoners in this thread to ever see that. nt ellenrr Dec 2014 #116

Agreed. We MUST get involved earlier in the process. riqster Dec 2014 #23

curious: how many people here have anything to do with picking candidates? nt ellenrr Dec 2014 #119

there are no polls? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #121

And other races? riqster Dec 2014 #145

sure nilla NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #184

of course Deal! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #214

For state and local races, we can have an impact. riqster Dec 2014 #143

lol. the rank & file doesn't pick candidates. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #155

For some months now, it's been the fashion on DU to pretend we do. merrily Dec 2014 #183

the rank and file support HRC by 63%! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #215

They may 'support' her in a poll, but they didn't pick her as a candidate. That was rigged, as it NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #222

The Kochs conceived and funded the Teabaggers and still fund them. merrily Dec 2014 #175

But that would take more than criticizing the field ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #19

some must believe elections are run with pixie dust... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #24

If we can get involved in primary candidate selection, we can move the needle. riqster Dec 2014 #25

But that's not the OP's "abandon electoral politics" prescription. 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #26

Thanks, 1SBM. Here's wishing you and yours a great 2015. riqster Dec 2014 #32

In one sense it is hfojvt Dec 2014 #63

Totally agree. I moved to Ohio just after the last Primary. Chris Redfern was so bad RiverLover Dec 2014 #27

That bastard fucker of syphillitic, scrofulus ocelots totally screwed the state. riqster Dec 2014 #35

If we can't move that needle then we will never have social progress Autumn Dec 2014 #28

I would change only one word from your post: riqster Dec 2014 #40

Yes we can build on it. Because it's OUR Democratic party Autumn Dec 2014 #45

... 840high Dec 2014 #49

+1 riqster Dec 2014 #53

The people did not move FDR to do things that had never merrily Dec 2014 #185

That sounds pretty easy, sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #50

Quite true. But when second prize is a hellish Randian dystopic existence, riqster Dec 2014 #54

The Kochs conceived and funded the teabaggers. The teabaggers were not out there merrily Dec 2014 #179

So the crux of the OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #16

10 years? Tea Party managed to do it in less then an election cycle... Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #157

money has always been a good insulator from "being treated like crap". NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #158

It's all relative ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #164

I don't believe oprah is treated like crap. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #165

As I've said, it's all relative ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #195

Thanks. Interesting. elleng Dec 2014 #29

In re your guess. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #33

Not my guess, that of the author Bill Curry. elleng Dec 2014 #42

I hate to sound 'old fogeyish', but I think we need to 'go back'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #47

I have not problem, if your thoughts are 'old fogeyish,' elleng Dec 2014 #52

To put it another way and bluntly, this makes me think of what Redskins John Riggins used to say: appalachiablue Dec 2014 #87

and 'Loosen Up, Sandy' elleng Dec 2014 #88

Hilarious, memorable and only he could pull it off. Friends saw him at Nathan's twice on appalachiablue Dec 2014 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author sakabatou Dec 2014 #34

Why should the thread be closed? It's within the SOP for GD Autumn Dec 2014 #37

For NO reason, as you say. elleng Dec 2014 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author sakabatou Dec 2014 #66

Is Salon not an acceptable source on DU these days? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #39

Hmm, I wonder. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #36

Seriously you should rethink ignore. Autumn Dec 2014 #41

Agreed. I have nobody on ignore. DU is more interesting this way. riqster Dec 2014 #43

So do I, I stay on top of that jury black list Autumn Dec 2014 #71

Just so. riqster Dec 2014 #72

They both have their virtues. merrily Dec 2014 #191

Mostly the VR troll /nt Dragonfli Dec 2014 #57

Calling me a troll? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #122

Well you do know Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #136

ooooooh I am deemed unacceptable by the Left Leaning Independents! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #139

troll PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #151

This. From the OP~ RiverLover Dec 2014 #46

That is why voters stay home. People who lean Democratic are not stupid and they know Autumn Dec 2014 #51

Kick...nt SidDithers Dec 2014 #55

is this an excuse not to support somEone other than hillary clinton JI7 Dec 2014 #56

The article is very clear. Autumn Dec 2014 #61

No one needs an "excuse" for a primary vote. merrily Dec 2014 #188

Here's the thing... Blanks Dec 2014 #58

"Not as bad" is a piss poor way of campaigning and a piss poor way of governing. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #60

And if the democrats don't turn it around the result in 2016 Autumn Dec 2014 #62

I have little hope of that seeing as how candidates are determined by Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #65

FDR: At least I'm not as bad as Hoover on cultural issues! merrily Dec 2014 #189

Not sure what to make out of a former Bill Clinton counselor writing this piece. It goes counter still_one Dec 2014 #64

Every President, Rep and Dem, since Nixon "deregulated" merrily Dec 2014 #192

DU Rec. SixString Dec 2014 #68

Oh yeah? Well I'll form my own political party! With blackjack and hookers! Initech Dec 2014 #82

What's a party without blackjack.. or roulette ? Autumn Dec 2014 #97

Maybe just forget the "political" bit. Sounds like a party! merrily Dec 2014 #193

Fox news is to blame for brainwashing America. DCBob Dec 2014 #96

We had ways, like the Fairness Doctrine. We discontinued them. merrily Dec 2014 #194

It is just so much easier to blame Fox news and the republicans. Autumn Dec 2014 #226

Some have some kind of economic interest in doing that. merrily Jan 2015 #267

The dc dems already abandoned many of their voters Doctor_J Dec 2014 #105

Exactly.. sendero Dec 2014 #107

i did not leave the party PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #156

For at least the better part of a century, Republicans were up merrily Dec 2014 #198

Cogent observations Doctor_J Dec 2014 #202

Thanks--and yours always are . merrily Dec 2014 #203

K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #112

"The young now trend Republican" 0rganism Dec 2014 #178

As a lifelong Democratic voter, I will NEVER EVER vote for another corporate dem as long as I live. onecaliberal Dec 2014 #196

1978. My first vote ever, for whoever was running against Jim Thompson. Don't even Doctor_J Dec 2014 #206

That Would Be Like Abandoning Your Child Bcuz They Made Mistakes Or Didn't Live Up 2 All expectation Corey_Baker08 Dec 2014 #223

the gnewz media is STILL in thrall of reaganism + the GOP. democrats need to stop being afraid. pansypoo53219 Dec 2014 #227

Yes let's, and let's privatize Social Security while we're at it. ucrdem Jan 2015 #236

Hows about a chained CPI? Sheesh Autumn Jan 2015 #237

Hows about privatized interstates and the return of "peak" oil? ucrdem Jan 2015 #238