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In reply to the discussion: I remember how sick and hurt, bitter and ashamed I felt in 2003 watching the invasion gather [View all]I should also point out the largest UN embassy is in Iraq & human trafficking violations have been reported there (there are more subcontracted by private defense contractors foreign migrant workers than anyone else working in US bases & they outnumber military trucks 25-1 on long distance supply transportation convoys in Iraq--which is what I did '06-'07)
The known early (possible) mistakes were is US forces were guarding the oil fields while Iraq was being looted. IS funds itself with (among many other ways) black market ancient artifacts transactions.
They also cut loose military personnel of the Ba'athist regime. Out of work, no opportunities, many used their skills for opposition forces. Some of which, are now with IS. The "correct" decision is said to scoop 'em up, hire em, use them for your side.
Have We Ever Gotten to the Bottom of Exactly 'Why' Bush and the Neocons Disastrously Invaded Iraq?
Some analysts have traced this idea back to the neocon Project for the New American Century in the late 1990s, which advocated for regime change in Iraq. But the ideas origins go back to the early 1990s and to two seminal events.
The first game-changing moment came in 1990-91 when President George H.W. Bush showed off the unprecedented advancements in U.S. military technology. Almost from the moment that Iraqs Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, the Iraqi dictator began signaling his willingness to withdraw after having taught the arrogant al-Sabah ruling family in Kuwait a lesson in power politics.
<snip>
Peace feelers from Hussein and later from Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev were rebuffed as Bush-41 waited his chance to demonstrate the stunning military realities of his New World Order. Even the U.S. field commander, Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, favored Gorbachevs plan for letting Iraqi forces pull back, but Bush-41 was determined to have a ground war.
So, Gorbachevs plan was bypassed and the ground war commenced with the slaughter of Iraqi troops, many of them draftees who were mowed down and incinerated as they fled back toward Iraq. After 100 hours, Bush-41 ordered a halt to the massacre. He then revealed a key part of his motivation by declaring: Weve kicked the Vietnam Syndrome once and for all. [For details, see Robert Parrys Secrecy & Privilege.]
http://www.alternet.org/world/have-we-ever-gotten-bottom-exactly-why-bush-and-neocons-disastrously-invaded-iraq
I'm not sure that is it or what the real reason (revolves around oil or who has the oil). Given Cheney's handle on things, they probably had an idea how long it would take. It had to be part of something long-term, strategic control & influence location. Our Jordan buddies to the CIA to the west, Iran to the East, Syria to the north. We don't care what's going on south.
Wikileaks appeared the US was concerned over who would rule the Shias, they seemed to favor Iraqi Shia political leaders over Pro-Iran Shia Clerics. However, the guy the US managed to install in charge of Iraq allowed & didn't even try to slow down Iranian backed Shia militias, it is likely Iran is very connected to the government of Iraq so in a lot of ways we have two Irans bordering each other.
I have no idea regarding their intentions in implanting a "uniter" or a "divider", the US claims Al-Maliki is the guy to unite Iraq which obviously is either a mistake or they intentionally wanted the Iraq to be destabilized for another generation or so. I'm not sure how connected battalion commanders are to the top of the DoD chain but their "orders" to indiscriminately kill civilians was a contributing factor to terror groups, until their attacks on civilians turned Sunnis off which led to the "Sunni awakening", not sure if this was intended or a good mistake (interesting the NYT report on attacks attributed to IS is at the lowest point in 2007 despite the massive increase in violence, fighting, & casualties). In any case, it appears they chased them away or they went hiding in the shadows.
In fact, there are reports as early as 2006 Al-Maliki was imprisoning & torturing Sunnis so US received a very early heads up Al-Maliki wasn't uniting Iraq. 8 more years of this & re-branding from AQII & slick marketing came the 2014 "ISIS offensive".
Like Afghanistan, Iraq is in the top 5 of most corrupt governments though Afghanistan is actually much easier to pin down the ulterior motives even though many people probably feel it is a "legitimate" war. US & NATO post-cold war operations red flag, US caused the Afghanistan government to be entirely corrupt and this is based on the Pentagon's own admissions. CIA have teamed up with war lords & drug traffickers. The Taliban threw out the communists in charge back in the 70's with US help. Afghanistan suffered with one of the worst banking scandals in history.
I don't really believe Afghanistan was ever about terrorists, US has obvious economic interests in Afghanistan that over-rule whatever side issues they may have. Also, I wonder about the US activities in Columbia & their "Assisting the Colombian government against Narco traffickers" but there are many privatized militias fighting for the government side that are also heavily involved in drug trafficking, kidnapping, extortion, etc. I don't believe, with the profits to be made from drug trafficking that wealthy business interests that apparently direct US foreign policy wouldn't want a cut of those drug profits. They stamped out "mom-and-pop" meth labs but stepped on Cartel dope supply isn't seriously threatened. They make a killing of the precursors alone. Heroin was relatively rare in the Southwest in 2001, now it is very common.
Wachovia laundered $378 billion, I bet $378 billion also buys a lot of a lot business & political connections. Also HSCBC (or whatever) has done this & much, much more.
On edit - I forgot my point I wanted to add in Afghanistan. I'm not sure why citizens continue to overlook or downplay ulterior economic motives when it comes to anything at all regarding to foreign policy, press treatment of our "enemies", whoever the current enemy happens to be. While the US hypes up the 'bad guy', there remains far more deserving candidates for "regime change".
One more thing -- it is strange how we go from 80% war approval in 2003 to universally agreed on "pull the troops out", leave Iraq alone to their own devices, we can't afford any more casualties back to 55%+ approval for Iraq war
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I remember how sick and hurt, bitter and ashamed I felt in 2003 watching the invasion gather [View all]
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
OP
the source material is there -- control of the media from embedding to Generals propagandizing
nashville_brook
Feb 2015
#172
It was a total success beyond the wildest dreams of the war profiteers/criminals. And it continues
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#130
Yes, and we don't count. But some of 'us' bought into the lies, even some of our elected officials
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#152
Chelsea Manning warned about Maliki when she was in Iraq. She discovered that the Iraqi
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#168
They never went away. So many Bush holdovers still remain in place. Most of them in Defense. I
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#80
This is why "looking forward" and even "truth and reconciliation" are not just a fail but dangerous
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#93
What a coincidence for them too. The PNAC gang also stated that it would be difficult to get the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#48
I can top that. I wrote one of about a half dozen letters to the editor in July 2012 saying "No War
McCamy Taylor
Feb 2015
#6
I know how I feel about politicians who were fooled, or not, into supporting a war in the WRONG
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#67
I totally agree with you. I do think some of them were actually on board with the whole
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#139
Seeing near orgasmic expressions on FauxNews anchor during Shock&Awe led me to put lock on chnl so
Panich52
Feb 2015
#8
The day of the invasion, I remember going into workers and there were protestors in the street
kimbutgar
Feb 2015
#11
Children burned to death with White Phosphorous! Military admits it, no problem.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#52
The Senator Byrd Debates on War in Iraq...DU'ers had Running Threads watching C-Span
KoKo
Feb 2015
#124
Thanks for posting, KoKo. In truth, I was thinking even earlier than that
RufusTFirefly
Feb 2015
#125
That was one of the best speeches delivered by anyone that day. I didn't really know much about him
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#132
Yes, the Right trashed him, but he expected that and at a critical moment in our history, he
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#140
Yes, there were a huge number of bridges burned that day and the following ones
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#55
None of the Very Serious People are actual adults, they are grown up children
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#16
i wouldn't want anyone who thinks there is no difference between Bush and Gore to run the country
JI7
Feb 2015
#46
well, considering what a disaster Bush was and i knew he would be , it's not easy to forget
JI7
Feb 2015
#70
I agree, saying there is no difference between those who voted for war and against is a lie..
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#89
Why didn't Hillary know what you knew, that Bush was going to 'fuck things up'?
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#138
Not if someone would have stood up to him. All it took was someone calling the BFEE
Rex
Feb 2015
#40
Hard to tell. When Bush asked for their integrity the DLC'ers couldn't bow low enough
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#41
I couldn't watch it. But I do remember that CNN was there and showed video at about 4.00 AM the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#58
Followed by an immediate media blackout..no casualities were to be shown...just patriotic bombs dropping.
Fred Sanders
Feb 2015
#100
Thank you. He was a totally innocent child and one of the first victims of that massive crime.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#129
Yes, it is. Which is why people go eslewhere to get news. And that is why they are trying to control
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#165
The night of the vote I remember watching Sen Daschle making a great speech
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#43
I remember how I felt that night also. I am sure I cried, especially when I saw Democrats
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#47
Yes, it does feel good to know that and to know that not everyone who KNEW has forgotten or
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#83
Thank you for this thread. People have short memories, either that or they never really did care
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#63
I didn't read it. Kind of guessed what it was. Maybe I should, it might be interesting to know
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#68
I wouldn't bother, it's pure snark, trying to imitate Manny from a position of weakness
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#72
Lol, thanks, won't waste the time then. NO ONE can imitate Manny. He is unique!
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#75
And yet....21 Democratic Senators, 1 Independent and 1 Republican DID have the courage to vote no.
PassingFair
Feb 2015
#123
A majority of Democrats voted against it, so I think they knew what was going on, in fact in some
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#131
Thanks for the list. I'd forgotten that more D's voted for it than against. n/t
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#133
meh. I was not involved at politics at all at the time. I was fighting for survival.
magical thyme
Feb 2015
#99
Exactly. Progressives like you and me and others who always seem to consistently come down on the
dissentient
Feb 2015
#87
Why is it so hard for many Hillary backers to just say that she was spectacularly wrong
Broward
Feb 2015
#105
Politically, those who voted against it were marginalized while those who voted Yes rose in the
Bluenorthwest
Feb 2015
#108
Exactly true. I don't hold the IWR against the ones who voted for it, I won't fault the
Autumn
Feb 2015
#113
Thank you, and thank you for your OP. I wish I could rec it about a million times.
Autumn
Feb 2015
#118
The day we started bombing I was visiting one daughter - both of us we anti-war and said so. Then
jwirr
Feb 2015
#116
Holding it over their heads doesn't do any good, you were right for the wrong reasons
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#147
Who said there was no forgiveness. In fact they were not to blame so they did not need forgiveness.
jwirr
Feb 2015
#148
Yep. I knew the war was a mistake based on lies. I can't believe that US Senators didn't know that.
Scuba
Feb 2015
#122
"Shock & Awe." W justed wanted to get his war on. Any war. So 9/11 warnings were intentionally
blkmusclmachine
Feb 2015
#146
I have more respect for Hillary Clinton's intelligence than to believe she was fooled
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#157
The pols who were inside the Washington bubble were told that the American people
Lydia Leftcoast
Feb 2015
#171
We Are All Pawns Of The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks That Own And Control The Politicians
cantbeserious
Feb 2015
#162