General Discussion

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)

108. FDR WAS a bit of a socialist.

Sun May 3, 2015, 04:07 PM

May 2015

Somehow, we have gotten to a place where people pretend unregulated capitalism is a core American value. Or maybe our religion or something. Like the Founding Fathers stood on Plymouth rock and shouted,

"Small government, low wages and no environmental regulations, for ALLLL!"

Didn't happen that way. No one anointed pure capitalism our National Way of Doing Business, and in fact, we have made our greatest strides NOT doing things that way. Busting trusts, banning monopolies. Breaking up businesses before they become "too big to fail."

Socialism isn't a dirty word, or un-American, and it's far past time we stopped letting people pretend otherwise.

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Bernie Sanders: What's Wrong With America Looking More Like Scandinavia? [View all] madfloridian May 2015 OP

Scandinavia has some real sexist and racist issues. you know. social issues. i guess if we ignore seabeyond May 2015 #1

We have serious ones in this country also. madfloridian May 2015 #3

yes we do. and still, we are ahead of them in this.... but certainy over the last decade seabeyond May 2015 #6

bullshit. two words: prison industry cali May 2015 #9

oh cali.... and here you are. seabeyond May 2015 #10

And Cali brought up a very good point. Violet_Crumble May 2015 #215

I agree. One thing we (liberals) need to also wake up to. The rise of the right in Europe came from newthinking May 2015 #121

omg. BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #185

Thanks foe posting. I wasn't aware of this. Could you please start a post on this. Dream Girl May 2015 #191

YES look @ Canada's Harper Rockyj May 2015 #218

In women's rights we are going backwards. madfloridian May 2015 #11

yes we are. i am well aware of that. hence my need to stand on social justice, while trying to seabeyond May 2015 #13

How is social justice not so pretty in those countries, as you allege? NaturalHigh May 2015 #53

The Unit by Ninni Holmqvist is a great dystopian novel daredtowork May 2015 #144

It's probably because many of these countries have decriminalized prostitution davidn3600 May 2015 #231

Yes, it's amazing. One would think... NaturalHigh May 2015 #232

In Sweden and Norway the buyer is breaking the law, not the prostitute. If someone wants to keep Chathamization May 2015 #233

That's disputable davidn3600 May 2015 #234

No we're not, the gop is taking us backwards, especially women! Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #62

we as a nation, not personally or a party. pretty soon i am gonna be accused of saying democrats seabeyond May 2015 #65

If you wanna discuss this create an OP about it, not as a sub-thread on this OP. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #74

Why? There are no rules about creating OP's vs. subthreads. nt pnwmom May 2015 #119

True, not trying to be a thread purist Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #219

i did. more people just interested saying i called sanders a racist and sexist. seabeyond May 2015 #145

The GOP is taking us backwards on every front. And at an alarming rate. Enthusiast May 2015 #111

See my post above. The GOP are extremely active in Europe too. There is a correlation to the rise newthinking May 2015 #125

International Fascism. Enthusiast May 2015 #133

It's very easy to see the pattern, they use the same MO all over the world. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #221

They're in control of this nation. They just have to exercise caution lest the people realize it. Enthusiast May 2015 #225

Like they will ignore Baltimore? L0oniX May 2015 #5

Someone from Vermont may not see any issue with an almost totally white country Township75 May 2015 #8

sorry, not a racist. Am a Vermonter cali May 2015 #12

I didn't suggest that you nor any other Vermonter were racist Township75 May 2015 #14

Really? Now you're trying to say that Bernie is striving for a white country? cui bono May 2015 #98

WTF is right! Enthusiast May 2015 #112

I think we all know which aspects of Scandinavian countries Bernie wants to emulate nxylas May 2015 #143

:>))))) pangaia May 2015 #148

+1 People with a brain & knowledge realize what Sanders means in regard to Scandanavia. appalachiablue May 2015 #217

I knew it wouldnt take long as soon as I read the OP title 7962 May 2015 #173

Scandinavia is becoming much more racially diverse. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2015 #39

Immigrants are a higher percentage of Sweden's population (16%) than in the US (14%). pampango May 2015 #94

Surprised that Hong Kong Immigrants are not listed there... yuiyoshida May 2015 #196

Bernie marched for civil rights in the 60's so you need not attempt to implicate him as racist cui bono May 2015 #96

.... madfloridian May 2015 #110

Candidate and Hair doing well, both are authentic. T-Shirts selling well too. appalachiablue May 2015 #235

Well said emulatorloo May 2015 #140

wtf does that mean? Someone who's black or who marched or who has black children does't equate to be uponit7771 May 2015 #141

So you think Bernie wants a white America? Did you even read the article? cui bono May 2015 #149

They didn't even read the OP... awoke_in_2003 May 2015 #160

Then you don't want a country with the best markers of social equality and BrotherIvan May 2015 #157

I didn't know Bernie marched on Washington. SMC22307 May 2015 #161

Wow!! I had no idea Bernie was at the Univ. of Chicago pocoloco May 2015 #220

One big reason moondust May 2015 #103

moondust Diclotican May 2015 #199

Are you in Norway, Diclotican? moondust May 2015 #209

OFFS ...the race card ...really? L0oniX May 2015 #165

He's merely pointing out there style of government. Nothing more. 7962 May 2015 #177

She knows what he damn well what he meant. smokey nj May 2015 #183

You Should Be Ashamed Of Yourself. stonecutter357 May 2015 #210

Dude, grow up. smokey nj May 2015 #216

Your hatred is blinding you. stonecutter357 May 2015 #237

You want to be real careful... gregcrawford May 2015 #229

Oh dear God BrotherIvan May 2015 #15

you have made it clear social justice issues are not relevant. as i have made it clear they are my seabeyond May 2015 #17

You have a very skewed idea of what economic justice is though. cui bono May 2015 #33

middle/upper class and men. seabeyond May 2015 #42

Since you "think it is important to be informed, educated and aware"... NaturalHigh May 2015 #50

I want to know why you leave out minorities and women when you define economic justice. cui bono May 2015 #54

Economic justice is about the lower classes having opportunity and fair wages Dragonfli May 2015 #120

My neighborhood looks the same way BrotherIvan May 2015 #127

"They might get banned from this board with their response." Dragonfli May 2015 #129

Yes, when we are told that DU isn't representative of the country BrotherIvan May 2015 #137

^ BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #186

I understand what you are saying. But in regards to a presidential candidate it is not relavent newthinking May 2015 #142

Your assertion is 100% false BrotherIvan May 2015 #36

I think one of the reasons you see this in the Nordic countries madaboutharry May 2015 #58

You are correct BrotherIvan May 2015 #66

True -- my friends in the Netherlands say that half the country is non-religious and the Nay May 2015 #70

madaboutharry Diclotican May 2015 #201

The crickets are deafening, hifiguy May 2015 #61

One should not claim the mantle if one is woefully misinformed BrotherIvan May 2015 #73

At this point it looks more like intentional trolling than anything else. hifiguy May 2015 #79

That is not for me to say BrotherIvan May 2015 #81

You will wait until the heat death of the universe. hifiguy May 2015 #84

I'd take the half life of uranium BrotherIvan May 2015 #109

Thank you. I was searching for links, but yours are better than anything I can Nay May 2015 #69

Not to mention BrotherIvan May 2015 #75

Adding to your post... men get paternity leave as well as women getting maternity leave in Denmark. cui bono May 2015 #83

You bet BrotherIvan May 2015 #104

Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious. 7962 May 2015 #178

It's good that the lies are being countered BrotherIvan May 2015 #179

Thank you. It's a shame that it only takes seconds to create and spread misinformation, but Chathamization May 2015 #180

Well at least the true facts are getting out there for people to see BrotherIvan May 2015 #182

I have a feeling it's going to be a loooong primary season. pa28 May 2015 #152

It has spread to other threads with others picking up the torch BrotherIvan May 2015 #154

I was sorry when that OP appeared on the Home Page yesterday and read some of the remarks. appalachiablue May 2015 #222

Thank you for your post BrotherIvan May 2015 #224

true, he shouldn't have said identical on social issues WhaTHellsgoingonhere May 2015 #22

Yeah, Sanders' impeccable, life-long record on civil rights and social justice is merely a clever smokey nj May 2015 #27

i am not allowed to point out how these countries fail in social justice aspects? seabeyond May 2015 #30

That IS NOT what you're doing and you and I both know it. smokey nj May 2015 #31

ha. now there is an argument i have heard before. your words do not matter, nor your facts... seabeyond May 2015 #32

You have NO facts BrotherIvan May 2015 #41

You said just yesterday that he is white and male so his economic justice would be just that, cui bono May 2015 #46

You are all over DU pretending to want to support Sanders yet slandering his good name cui bono May 2015 #40

+++++++ BrotherIvan May 2015 #43

omg. there is some balanced accusations. you know those threads? they were a call out to me. seabeyond May 2015 #51

No. I was having a very civil exchange with you and you defined economic justice as being only cui bono May 2015 #57

go back into that thread and see that i do not say the exact thing. addressing middle/upper middle seabeyond May 2015 #59

Again. Why do you leave out minorities and women in your definition of economic justice? cui bono May 2015 #60

Someone posted Bernie's ratings from the NAACP hifiguy May 2015 #87

No doubt. But somehow someone here will see that through their own kaleidoscope cui bono May 2015 #93

That is, shall we say, a Palinesque "talent." nt hifiguy May 2015 #97

I fear it serves their intended purpose. Enthusiast May 2015 #126

That was me in response to the "supporter's" concerns BrotherIvan May 2015 #158

What we're witnessing here is the classic Rovian tactic of attacking your opponent on their smokey nj May 2015 #71

Indeed. hifiguy May 2015 #82

I question your feminist credentials Beowulf May 2015 #123

Your actions speak for themselves - passive aggressive nonsense. smokey nj May 2015 #49

seabeyond, do you really think that xenophobia and social injustice are the traits... backscatter712 May 2015 #204

I don't believe he said.... Grey May 2015 #35

so how dare i educate, pointing out where they fail. fucking my bad. done. seabeyond May 2015 #56

You are constantly attempting to mislead, stranger81 May 2015 #91

You are not educating. You are attempting to misinform. n/t cui bono May 2015 #92

You never pointed out any salient issue in any detail. hifiguy May 2015 #100

seabeyond, saying Scandinavian countries are worse tthan we are in matters of sexism and racism tblue37 May 2015 #184

Thank you and others here for refuting the empty, damaging claims being made about appalachiablue May 2015 #228

What utopian society would YOU like us to emulate? NaturalHigh May 2015 #45

Our racial inequality is far worse on many levels. Exilednight May 2015 #63

FFS!!!! You think Sanders is endorsing sexism and racism??? BIG IGNORE for you! nt valerief May 2015 #64

no. but it helps to win a fabricated argument creating your very own false accusations. seabeyond May 2015 #67

Please provide some links to facts about your claims. cui bono May 2015 #95

Whaaat? abelenkpe May 2015 #114

Some people make a career of twisting obvious statements into hifiguy May 2015 #136

Bernie is NOT advocating more sexism and racism Enrique May 2015 #138

And so....? pangaia May 2015 #146

Being "more like" something isn't the same as being "just like" that thing. cyberswede May 2015 #164

I thought Scandinavia was one of the best places for women... BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #187

You are correct BrotherIvan May 2015 #212

From my vantage point, I see horrendous sexist and racist issues right here NorthCarolina May 2015 #194

so they have those problems because they have universal health care and free higher ed? yurbud May 2015 #211

He wasn't saying we should embrace THAT part of Scandinavian life Ken Burch May 2015 #213

I certainly understand that Scandinavia has its problems, and you're absolutely right Jackpine Radical May 2015 #230

Bernie says what will be good for America Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #2

Learn what? How to be racist? leftofcool May 2015 #16

We don't need to learn that from any other country. Why equate this OP with racism anyway?? madfloridian May 2015 #20

Because racism is an extreme problem in Scandinavia and no we do not need to look like them at all. leftofcool May 2015 #23

We have an extreme problem here now. I doubt other countries could teach us more. madfloridian May 2015 #26

We sure do but they are much worse. leftofcool May 2015 #38

It's called hijacking when you change the subject from the OP to racism. madfloridian May 2015 #44

Now we know what the arrow in the H logo is for. Jester Messiah May 2015 #153

Links? Proof? BrotherIvan May 2015 #47

Are you contending that Bernie Sanders wants to usher in a new era of Jim Crow? smokey nj May 2015 #68

So yet another DUer trying to claim Sanders is racist? cui bono May 2015 #101

That they've sunk to this level less than a week into smokey nj May 2015 #117

Did Sanders say anything about learning racism from Scandinavia? He said we could learn liberal_at_heart May 2015 #208

Exactly right. Although I'm conflicted. Faygo Kid May 2015 #4

Add to the last paragraph: Like the mixed government of FDR. They called him a socialist to. jwirr May 2015 #7

FDR WAS a bit of a socialist. DirkGently May 2015 #108

Damn straight! I like your post! Enthusiast May 2015 #130

Indeed. Scandinavia and much of Europe still governs using FDR ideas. pampango May 2015 #226

Bernie's Message Should Resonate colsohlibgal May 2015 #18

Great post, colsohlibgal! Enthusiast May 2015 #132

Who's afraid of the big bad GOP? Gregorian May 2015 #19

An American President envisioned a Democratic Socialist America AZ Progressive May 2015 #21

Good for Bernie... SoapBox May 2015 #24

Somebody get this guy a coach BeyondGeography May 2015 #25

I think no one could have anticipated the utter ignorance and agenda-driven misinformation BrotherIvan May 2015 #80

Agreed. The woeful ignorance is, hopefully, one of the things that Bernie hopes to correct Nay May 2015 #169

It is one of the strangest things I have ever seen on DU BrotherIvan May 2015 #171

Americans are more receptive to socialism than they know BeyondGeography May 2015 #202

I think the US will get an education on democratic socialism and it's benefits HereSince1628 May 2015 #28

If they don't know what socialism means Rolando May 2015 #34

I agree with you, and yes, I don't think most people read history HereSince1628 May 2015 #37

And a media that stubbornly presents these obsolete views like George S. just CTyankee May 2015 #52

14 years of jingoism has been pretty tough on our critical self-awareness. HereSince1628 May 2015 #55

"History" to most Americans is over-simplified civic mythology, told to them as children in school arcane1 May 2015 #116

yeah, Americans already 1. think it looks like Sweden and 2. want it to look even more like it MisterP May 2015 #29

"When asked to choose an ideal wealth distribution, Americans say that they like Sweden/" pampango May 2015 #99

K&R. Yes please! Overseas May 2015 #48

The Nordic countries The next supermodel/The Economist Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #72

"Democratic Socialism" needs to be discussed more often and more openly. DirkGently May 2015 #76

..... madfloridian May 2015 #85

EXCELLENT post! hifiguy May 2015 #89

I'm trying to adopt the habit of asking "what do you mean?" whenever someone shouts "socialist" arcane1 May 2015 #118

YES! "Okay, socialist, like 'Social Security,' buut ... DirkGently May 2015 #135

There are many that profit greatly by keeping us like kindergarteners. Enthusiast May 2015 #139

They're laughing all the way to the bank, or DirkGently May 2015 #168

Well said. TM99 May 2015 #193

Thanks -- That's long been my impression. DirkGently May 2015 #195

There is a definite maturity that comes TM99 May 2015 #206

Remember this pic? Oilwellian May 2015 #200

I think I had actually suppressed the memory. DirkGently May 2015 #203

the GOP made amerika equate socialism=COMMUNISM! pansypoo53219 May 2015 #77

And Zombie Raygun. hifiguy May 2015 #90

"The fact of the matter is, we do a lot in our country, which is good," he added. "But we can.. madfloridian May 2015 #78

Yes - the joke is that American Exceptionalism means Exeptionally Bad. nt daredtowork May 2015 #151

I don't care if he loses. Refreshing to see a politician speak his beliefs without shame LittleBlue May 2015 #86

The Truth wins either way :) arcane1 May 2015 #122

Where are we fredamae May 2015 #88

A good rational argument, but some strategic weaknesses in the framing. True Blue Door May 2015 #102

"but eventually he'll have to get some strategists to hone his approach." madfloridian May 2015 #105

We lost the House and Senate because of Citizens United and vote suppression. True Blue Door May 2015 #113

"but let's also not be anti-intellectual here" Wow madfloridian May 2015 #115

It's fine for now, flying a flag and gathering troops. True Blue Door May 2015 #124

"flying a flag and gathering troops" madfloridian May 2015 #128

It's not a matter of "bipartisanship." True Blue Door May 2015 #147

4 articles to read. Trying to sound like the other party IS a huge huge part of it all. madfloridian May 2015 #174

I don't expect Sanders to listen to any of those discredited views. True Blue Door May 2015 #197

The American right wing has intentionally creating confusion around the term socialism for years. Enthusiast May 2015 #106

Here's the video, thanks to cal04 in the Video forum. madfloridian May 2015 #107

Yes! Cali_Democrat May 2015 #131

Some people don't seem to realize he said "more like" Scandinavia. Beartracks May 2015 #134

Well said, Beartracks. pampango May 2015 #155

Seems to be the same folks who think "democratic socialist" = "socialist". n/t winter is coming May 2015 #162

Good point. nt cyberswede May 2015 #163

Jeg elsker dig, Bernie! Fritz Walter May 2015 #150

I did. madfloridian May 2015 #176

Did the POS Stephanaopolous answer Bernie's question? i.e., "what's wrong with that?" I'm assuming AlinPA May 2015 #156

It sounds like Sanders "welcomes their hate." morningfog May 2015 #159

It does indeed ...and I love that. L0oniX May 2015 #167

Good call. That will be an advantage. True Blue Door May 2015 #181

No problem here, so long as McDonald's doesn't start serving McLutefisk. Buns_of_Fire May 2015 #166

Thanks for the laugh! smokey nj May 2015 #170

Maybe it's because they don't have a standing army and the Manifest Destiny for Empire. libdem4life May 2015 #172

I cannot believe the ignorant knee-jerking in half the posts here. 7962 May 2015 #175

No doubt. rbnyc May 2015 #189

Those are some fat trees, cuz there's terrorists behind each one, too! n/t Beartracks May 2015 #236

Nothing wrong with that. n/t sabrina 1 May 2015 #188

Every country has problems... Thespian2 May 2015 #190

nothing, except they have 1000 radio stations to howl about certainot May 2015 #192

when you charge people with crimes you pin a scarlet letter on them for the rest of their whereisjustice May 2015 #198

Bernie's doing the right thing: owning his democratic socialism like a boss! backscatter712 May 2015 #205

He will be largely immune to 'socialism' scare attacks. RiverNoord May 2015 #227

What Americans think of Europeans struggle4progress May 2015 #207

yay! NuttyFluffers May 2015 #214

Cuz I'd look like this ejbr May 2015 #223