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In reply to the discussion: Funny how that works. [View all]
 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
48. If conspiracies didn't exist, there wouldn't be laws against them.
Wed Aug 5, 2015, 05:10 PM
Aug 2015

Sunstein and Vermeule (2008) describe a conspiracy theory as “an effort to explain some event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have managed to conceal their role” (p. 4).

Sunstein (2014) admits that while some conspiracy theories are true, he stresses that it is the false conspiracy which often permeates society.

Cass Sunstein On Conspiracy Theories
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/04/02/sunstein-conspiracy-theories

SUNSTEIN: Yes. I would use the word conspiracy theory, the term, just as a description and not build into it another word, false. So Watergate, as you say, that was a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. And so we need to have a general category, aware that often false conspiracy theories go viral, and sometimes they can create tragedy or political polarization. But it's good in a free society for people to have their ears pricked and to be alert to the possibility that something that you can't quite see is behind it.


For many, conspiracy theory is a pejorative term which denotes a faulty epistemology, rumors, and speculation. Furthermore, it is asserted that such analysis overestimates the ability of government bureaucracies to carry out “sophisticated and secret” (Sunstein & Vermeule, 2008, p. 6) plans in an open society. According to Parenti (2010), the term conspiracy theory can be used to dismiss: “(1) the idea of a conscious design by policy makers; (2) a hidden, but knowing intent; (3) a secret plan; (4) a secret interest.”

Kindleberger, C.P. (1981). Dominance and leadership in the international economy: Exploitation, public goods, and free rides. International Studies Quarterly 25(2), 242-254.

I have a strong bias against conspiracy theories of history. I do not believe in the notion that the extreme left, the extreme right, the power elite, the establishment, oil companies, professoriat, military-industrial complex, and so on, can be regarded as single decision-making units with detailed programs for imposing their will on the unsuspecting world. (p. 249)


Parenti (2010) quoting Karp (1973) dismisses the need for a theory entirely:

When it can be established that when a number of political acts work in concert to produce a certain result, the presumption is strong that the actors were aiming at the result in question. When it can be shown that the actors have an interest in producing these results, the presumptions become a fair certainty- no conspiracy theory is needed.


Sunstein and Vermeule (2008) assume a well-intentioned government may decide to defuse conspiracy theories “if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so” (p. 15), yet they concede that governments themselves may be purveyors of conspiracy theories. Parenti (1993) suggested that the beneficiaries of said social welfare may be an entire class interest. Following this reasoning, conspiracy theories may be eliminated to prevent exposure of particular factions, or they may be furnished to enable a certain objective.

Book Excerpt: ‘Conspiracy Theories’
By Cass R. Sunstein
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/04/02/sunstein-conspiracy-theories

In many nations, rational people end up believing crazy things, including (false) conspiracy theories. Those crazy thoughts can lead to violence, including terrorism. Many terrorist acts have been fueled by false conspiracy theories, and there is a good argument that some such acts would not have occurred in the absence of such theories. The key point—and, in a way, the most puzzling and disturbing one—is that the crazy thoughts are often held by people who are not crazy at all.


The US attacked Iraq through a false conspiracy theory.
Funny how that works. [View all] Octafish Aug 2015 OP
. annabanana Aug 2015 #1
Along with Dylan, Leslie West and Ozzy did that one, too. Octafish Aug 2015 #3
An odd bit of musical trivia: deutsey Aug 2015 #26
Father? Yes, son? Octafish Aug 2015 #54
Actually, no. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #57
What Adm. Morrison said. Octafish Aug 2015 #59
'Tis what he said Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #64
Jim Morrison's dad breaks silence about estranged son Octafish Aug 2015 #65
The link I provided also has the quote. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #66
LOL. So now you say Adm. Morrison didn't hate on his son? Octafish Aug 2015 #69
Dearest 'fish, my upstanding compatriot. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #72
Cool story. I like it. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2015 #71
Mountain's "Flowers of Evil" hifiguy Aug 2015 #63
Righteous band that was. Octafish Aug 2015 #70
Amen to that. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2015 #9
And we thought it would end with Obama. zeemike Aug 2015 #18
Ignore what? My friends are home from Bush's wars. tabasco Aug 2015 #51
Modern American blood baths don't need boots on the ground truedelphi Aug 2015 #58
I would hazard a guess that zeemike meant the dealers rather than the fighters erronis Aug 2015 #67
Exactly. Octafish Aug 2015 #81
It's the only jobs program we have... haikugal Aug 2015 #53
How far would some people go to become billionaires? Now, assume those people are GoneFishin Aug 2015 #2
That is a good question. Octafish Aug 2015 #5
RICO violations couldn't be any more glaring Doctor_J Aug 2015 #4
I like how the wall-to-wall domestic NSA spying has helped round them up. Octafish Aug 2015 #7
Kick! Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #6
Funny how things don't change...DU from 2002... Octafish Aug 2015 #10
It's a damn dirty history. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #15
What a fascinating article, Octafish. hedda_foil Aug 2015 #23
Wish I'd written it, my Friend! Octafish Aug 2015 #34
Thanks. bvar22 Aug 2015 #45
Profiteering scum. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2015 #8
Rupert Murdoch's employee Roger Ailes and the turds outta Corporate McPravda. Octafish Aug 2015 #14
Thanks for the great links. Will need to bookmark and read most later. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2015 #21
I just finished the truthout piece above. WOW! Talk about a "must read." hedda_foil Aug 2015 #42
Television, the drug of the Nation OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #47
I LOVE that record. Octafish Aug 2015 #49
As I lay awake at night, OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #74
Most excellent links Octafish..thanks! haikugal Aug 2015 #55
News Corp, a rogues gallery. OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #76
K&R. nt OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #11
Carlyle Group pioneered the way forward. Others, like Trireme Partnerships followed... Octafish Aug 2015 #40
Hot & bothered, and itchin' for a new war. OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #44
Dan Quayle? The Potatoe? Octafish Aug 2015 #52
to read later Thanks for posting this. snagglepuss Aug 2015 #12
A warmonger's take on democracy Octafish Aug 2015 #61
Now now. Don't go getting sanctimonious. Scootaloo Aug 2015 #13
Who remembers John Kokal? Octafish Aug 2015 #77
K&R..... daleanime Aug 2015 #16
Who remembers Col. Westhusing? Octafish Aug 2015 #78
These are the folks who should be experiencing 2naSalit Aug 2015 #17
Yep, conspiracy theory is a powerful trump card zeemike Aug 2015 #19
It is too! 2naSalit Aug 2015 #20
The real victim is the truth. zeemike Aug 2015 #22
And so goes the 2naSalit Aug 2015 #29
Well Rome was considered civilized too. zeemike Aug 2015 #31
So true! nt 2naSalit Aug 2015 #32
Michael Parenti studied how the Republic descended into Empire... Octafish Aug 2015 #35
Fascinating lecture, thanks. zeemike Aug 2015 #41
Thanks for posting 2naSalit Aug 2015 #82
If conspiracies didn't exist, there wouldn't be laws against them. OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #48
War Pigs shadowmayor Aug 2015 #24
You have summed up the situation, shadowmayor. These are the par'lous times. Octafish Aug 2015 #68
Helter Skelter shadowmayor Aug 2015 #73
K&R Bookmarked. Scuba Aug 2015 #25
BFEE Line of Warmongers & Imperialists in service of War Inc. Octafish Aug 2015 #75
Morning Kick! (eom) CanSocDem Aug 2015 #27
Who remembers Paul Sanford? Octafish Aug 2015 #79
R & K! /nt RiverLover Aug 2015 #28
Who remembers Mark Lombardi? Octafish Aug 2015 #80
But but but...the BFEE...tee hee giggles! Rex Aug 2015 #30
It's to show them for what they are: supporters of warmongers, war criminals and traitors. Octafish Aug 2015 #36
True and they have done that, supporters of warmongers etc.. Rex Aug 2015 #39
k and r nashville_brook Aug 2015 #33
The Jeb Bush Adviser Who Should Scare You Octafish Aug 2015 #87
The pig in the photo looks so happy fadedrose Aug 2015 #37
2003 George W. Bush interview about 9/11: "...we got a laugh out of it." Octafish Aug 2015 #38
Three months after 911, the Dubya said: Oilwellian Aug 2015 #46
It all went swimmingly well! Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #50
K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2015 #43
Jeb Bush and His Brother’s Wars Octafish Aug 2015 #84
Kick and Rec! haikugal Aug 2015 #56
Bush Family War Profiteering Octafish Aug 2015 #85
This thread rocks Octafish...BOOKMARKED!!!!!! haikugal Aug 2015 #86
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #60
Why the Mainstream Media Is Gung-Ho on War and Silencing Antiwar Voices Octafish Aug 2015 #88
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #62
People who say: ''Bush lied America into war'' are like NAZIs, BFEE Judge Silberman said. Octafish Aug 2015 #89
Plus one to the absolute fucking Max! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #90
K&R blackspade Aug 2015 #83
Warmongering Today Octafish Aug 2015 #91
They got the police state to keep themselves in power too. nilesobek Aug 2015 #92
Police State of the Art Octafish Aug 2015 #93
Thanks for your reply. I've read where you mentioned Frank Church. nilesobek Aug 2015 #94
dupe NT Octafish Aug 2015 #95
Frank Church warned us. Octafish Aug 2015 #96
I was born in '63, the year of the coup. nilesobek Aug 2015 #98
Rummy & Cheney are conspirators from WAYYY back, to the Ford Administration IIRC... One was Ghost in the Machine Aug 2015 #97
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