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Response to Capt. Obvious (Original post)

Fri Sep 18, 2015, 03:55 AM

16. There are laws against institutional or systemic bias.

Yet the statement is constantly made that systemic racism exists. So then what is being done about it? Where are the black and PoC lawyers bringing the cases challenging this institutionally racist behavior? As long as the phenomenon of institutional racism exists, the cases need to keep coming. That is how wrongs are righted under our system of government.

Why is it suddenly now up to white people to be all introspective and soul-seaarching in order to make progress in civil rights, when it has never been done that way before and there's no reason to expect that it would make any difference?

PoC keep asking why whites are not engaging in the race discussions. It isn't hard to figure out: 1) it's being framed in a very hostile, aggressive manner on premises that most whites disagree with, carry on doing that but don't expect a response; and 2) whites are being told they aren't needed, their past assistance in the effort counts for nothing, and to shut up and keep out of the way, so they are saying to themselves "fine, no problem" and they are doing just that. Who wouldn't?

Don't expect a different response until the message is different.

Additionally, as was noted in the article, white people don't think about race 1/10 as much as PoC do, in fact hardly at all. Yes, that's because they don't have to, but saying that ignores the fact of it. It isn't big on their list of issues. Now. The intersecting point between issues of all races is classism which includes (in addition to economic justice which is serious for all races) similar mistreatment of poor whites by some of the same institutions in the same ways (maybe not to the same numerical degree). That is where the bridge exists, classism. If PoC don't want to go there, fine. But don't expect motivation where none exists. Simply lamenting the fact that it doesn't exist and pointing more fingers, and making up off-base reasons for it is just an exercise in make believe.

PoC are always saying that white people shouldn't speak for them, and that is entirely reasonable. But then those same PoC, like the OP writer, turn right around and assume the right to speak for white people, and don't notice or don't care that they're engaging in another double standard. Comments like whites are afraid, they feel guilty, they feel reverse-oppressed, blah, blah, blah, are all this kind of thing... and it goes on constantly. Ascribing motives to other people on the other side of your argument is dishonest in a basic way. Don't expect that convo to go anywhere either.

There is a principle in law called "clean hands" which means that when a person comes to the law to seek justice, they shouldn't be guilty of wrongdoing themselves. "Clean hands" is what is entirely missing from the discussion of race as it is usually framed today, and that's what has changed since the 1960's, and that is a great deal of the problem.

It is not about justice inclusively for all anymore as in the 1960's, it is about self-serving deliberately excluding all but oneself and one's group regardless of collateral injustice to oppressed others. You can argue about how righteous that is all you want, but it won't motivate people to join your cause (not more than a small number anyway).

I also don't feel any need to address the wrongs of the past. It's the wrongs of today that matter. Just as adults can't go back and get what they feel they missed in childhood, so it is just as unrealistic to bring up wrongs that were done 200, 300, or 400 years ago. Those people are gone, and only a small percentage engaged in slavery anyway (as my ancestors did not). Plus, the people who were wronged by it are dead, not those living today. What we can do today is have a level playing field and an effective safety net, with the same access to everyone. Some may disagree, but that is my point of view and a lot of whites agree with me. As a matter of fact, it's what's known as the American way, because it's what our system of government is intended to be. I'm just trying to be informative as a white person on this issue, I've been told that is what's wanted, so we'll see if that's true.

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 OP
Egnever Sep 2015 #1
Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #2
Egnever Sep 2015 #3
Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #4
Lars39 Sep 2015 #8
alcibiades_mystery Sep 2015 #14
Egnever Sep 2015 #15
MineralMan Sep 2015 #5
FuzzyRabbit Sep 2015 #6
Garrett78 Sep 2015 #7
Number23 Sep 2015 #9
Garrett78 Sep 2015 #22
Number23 Sep 2015 #28
steve2470 Sep 2015 #33
Scuba Sep 2015 #10
Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #11
KyleMcShades Sep 2015 #12
betsuni Sep 2015 #13
JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #19
Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #21
KyleMcShades Sep 2015 #25
Garrett78 Sep 2015 #27
LineReply There are laws against institutional or systemic bias.
Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #16
Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #24
Nevernose Sep 2015 #29
Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #30
oberliner Sep 2015 #17
eridani Sep 2015 #18
romanic Sep 2015 #20
Cali_Democrat Sep 2015 #23
HassleCat Sep 2015 #26
MisterP Sep 2015 #31
quaker bill Sep 2015 #32
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