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Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
16. There are laws against institutional or systemic bias.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:55 AM
Sep 2015

Yet the statement is constantly made that systemic racism exists. So then what is being done about it? Where are the black and PoC lawyers bringing the cases challenging this institutionally racist behavior? As long as the phenomenon of institutional racism exists, the cases need to keep coming. That is how wrongs are righted under our system of government.

Why is it suddenly now up to white people to be all introspective and soul-seaarching in order to make progress in civil rights, when it has never been done that way before and there's no reason to expect that it would make any difference?

PoC keep asking why whites are not engaging in the race discussions. It isn't hard to figure out: 1) it's being framed in a very hostile, aggressive manner on premises that most whites disagree with, carry on doing that but don't expect a response; and 2) whites are being told they aren't needed, their past assistance in the effort counts for nothing, and to shut up and keep out of the way, so they are saying to themselves "fine, no problem" and they are doing just that. Who wouldn't?

Don't expect a different response until the message is different.

Additionally, as was noted in the article, white people don't think about race 1/10 as much as PoC do, in fact hardly at all. Yes, that's because they don't have to, but saying that ignores the fact of it. It isn't big on their list of issues. Now. The intersecting point between issues of all races is classism which includes (in addition to economic justice which is serious for all races) similar mistreatment of poor whites by some of the same institutions in the same ways (maybe not to the same numerical degree). That is where the bridge exists, classism. If PoC don't want to go there, fine. But don't expect motivation where none exists. Simply lamenting the fact that it doesn't exist and pointing more fingers, and making up off-base reasons for it is just an exercise in make believe.

PoC are always saying that white people shouldn't speak for them, and that is entirely reasonable. But then those same PoC, like the OP writer, turn right around and assume the right to speak for white people, and don't notice or don't care that they're engaging in another double standard. Comments like whites are afraid, they feel guilty, they feel reverse-oppressed, blah, blah, blah, are all this kind of thing... and it goes on constantly. Ascribing motives to other people on the other side of your argument is dishonest in a basic way. Don't expect that convo to go anywhere either.

There is a principle in law called "clean hands" which means that when a person comes to the law to seek justice, they shouldn't be guilty of wrongdoing themselves. "Clean hands" is what is entirely missing from the discussion of race as it is usually framed today, and that's what has changed since the 1960's, and that is a great deal of the problem.

It is not about justice inclusively for all anymore as in the 1960's, it is about self-serving deliberately excluding all but oneself and one's group regardless of collateral injustice to oppressed others. You can argue about how righteous that is all you want, but it won't motivate people to join your cause (not more than a small number anyway).

I also don't feel any need to address the wrongs of the past. It's the wrongs of today that matter. Just as adults can't go back and get what they feel they missed in childhood, so it is just as unrealistic to bring up wrongs that were done 200, 300, or 400 years ago. Those people are gone, and only a small percentage engaged in slavery anyway (as my ancestors did not). Plus, the people who were wronged by it are dead, not those living today. What we can do today is have a level playing field and an effective safety net, with the same access to everyone. Some may disagree, but that is my point of view and a lot of whites agree with me. As a matter of fact, it's what's known as the American way, because it's what our system of government is intended to be. I'm just trying to be informative as a white person on this issue, I've been told that is what's wanted, so we'll see if that's true.

Anyone who ever thought they would Egnever Sep 2015 #1
LOL!!!!!!! Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #2
Yea that was my reaction to the article as well Egnever Sep 2015 #3
No it wasn't Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #4
My SIL is one, and I've come across her attitude quite a bit. Lars39 Sep 2015 #8
People get jobs because they're white all the time alcibiades_mystery Sep 2015 #14
Getting jobs because you are white is completely different Egnever Sep 2015 #15
Oh, for pete's sake! White people as an entire group MineralMan Sep 2015 #5
So true. Some whites think they are the truly oppressed. FuzzyRabbit Sep 2015 #6
It's even worse than the persecuted Christian. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #7
"a group dedicated to addressing white privilege has recently started in the town where I live" Number23 Sep 2015 #9
Thanks. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #22
I love this post so much I want to drizzle it in chocolate and eat it like a cookie Number23 Sep 2015 #28
yep you nailed it steve2470 Sep 2015 #33
OFFS Scuba Sep 2015 #10
It's oppression when you get to have what I get to have... Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #11
Great article. KyleMcShades Sep 2015 #12
Like the horror movie character who goes into the basement after being warned betsuni Sep 2015 #13
You never would have survived JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #19
Yeah, some of the comments on this DU thread are disappointing. Capt. Obvious Sep 2015 #21
Was referring to the comments on the article's page but KyleMcShades Sep 2015 #25
White liberals and millennials. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #27
There are laws against institutional or systemic bias. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #16
Here's the real reason more whites aren't engaged in race discussions: Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #24
What do you mean by "ceding the privilege?" Nevernose Sep 2015 #29
By ceding the privilege I mean being willing to give up the advantages Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #30
"Calling yourself color-blind is not progress—it's insulting" oberliner Sep 2015 #17
If you are poor, you are oppressed, regardless of color eridani Sep 2015 #18
Vice, Tim Wise...ehhh romanic Sep 2015 #20
White people are easily brainwashed it seems, especially white males. Cali_Democrat Sep 2015 #23
Key phrase is in your post HassleCat Sep 2015 #26
interestingly "Whites" might not be on the way out since most racewatchers (is that a word? MisterP Sep 2015 #31
Most all of us are oppressed quaker bill Sep 2015 #32
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