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OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
21. Regarding that quote,
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 01:37 PM
Oct 2015

you're missing what the "catastrophic and catalyzing event" is the catalyst for, i.e. an increase in military defense spending.

Addressing the necessity of an informed populace to prevent war, Miller proclaims that “Ignorance of the desires, aims, and characteristics of other peoples leads to fear and is consequently one of the primary causes of aggression.”44 Waltz also acknowledges that war can be the result of a failure to properly educate the mass public, “Their instincts are good, though their present gullibility may prompt them to follow false leaders.”45

Schumpeter asserts that capitalist societies oppose imperialism, and argues that “It must be cloaked in every sort of rationalization”40 in order to avoid the disdain society has for imperialism. From Schumpeter’s research a theory was derived that society’s impression of the motives for imperialism had descended from a ruthless time in history when “kill or be killed” was necessary for survival.41 Schumpeter notes that these beliefs are fostered by the ruling class, which they find serves their needs.42 Thus the elite class crafts a mythos of primal savagery and disseminates it to the other classes to encourage support for its agenda.43

-According to Gramsci, this ideology becomes the base from which politics and economics arise.47 The state becomes the educator, a hegemonic force which constructs the views, ideals, and beliefs of the society it governs.48 “The State is the entire complex of practical and theoretical activities with which the ruling class not only justifies and maintains its dominance, but manages to win the active consent of those over whom it rules.”49 The state professes an ideology that convinces the proletariat that it is operating in the interest of all.50 51 Quoting Bodin, Waltz suggests:

{T}he best way of preserving a state, and guaranteeing it against sedition, rebellion, and civil war is to keep the subjects in amity one with another, and to this end find an enemy against whom they can make common cause.52


Gilpin addresses the need for common cause by noting that “Nationalism, having attained its first objective in the form of national unity and independence, develops automatically into imperialism.”53 And it is Waltz who observes that to set this belief system into motion, a profound and powerful catalyst is necessary: “In every social change... there is a relation between time and force. Generally speaking, the greater the force the more rapidly social change will occur.”54

Rather than continuing to miss the forest for the trees, it would be more productive to pull back and examine how the Bush Administration used 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq and provide lucrative contracts for defense contractors. This is a conspiracy which can actually be proven.

The Logical Bipartisan Insanity of Endless War
https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-logical-bipartisan-insanity-of-endless-war/

War Pays for Some: “A Hunt for Cash”

That’s something for the leading liberal pundit, partisan Democrat, and converted Obama fan Paul Krugman to reflect on. “War,” Krugman informed New York Times readers last August, “doesn’t pay” anymore, if it ever did for “modern, wealthy nations.” This is particularly true, Krugman feels, in “an interconnected world” where “war would necessarily inflict severe economic harm on the victor.”

There’s truth in his argument if by “war” we mean only major military conflicts between large and industrialized states. Such conflagrations are more than unlikely in our current “ultra-imperialist” (Karl Kautsky’s term) era marked by massive cross-national capital investment and global market inter-penetration.


More on Karl Kautsky:

Marxian, Liberal, and Sociological Theories of Imperialism Author(s): E. M. Winslow Reviewed work(s):Source: Journal of Political Economy, Vol. 39, No. 6 (Dec., 1931), pp. 713-758

To Hilferding imperialism is a policy of capitalism and not a stage of capitalism itself. Kautsky also held this view, but he differed with Hilferding in regarding imperialism as a policy of industrial (albeit a "highly developed&quot capitalism rather than of financial capitalism. From the policy viewpoint, regardless of how it expresses itself, capitalism conceivably possesses the power to turn competitive imperialism into a cooperative economic internationalism. Kautsky, indeed, came to the conclusion during the war that imperialism is not inevitable or unalterable under capitalism but may yet attain a still higher synthesis, an "ultra-" or "super-imperialism," under which a peaceful policy may be adopted as in the days of Manchesterism, as the best means of eliminating the wastes of competitive warfare and of insuring uninterrupted profits.36 Hilferding likewise thought such an eventuality possible economically but not politically, because of antagonistic interests between the powers.37

Turning to the radical communist representatives of Marxian thought, we find very little originality, but a vast amount of polemical criticism of the theories of imperialism held by Kautsky, Hilferding, and all center and right-wing socialists. The outstanding example of this sort of criticism is found in Lenin's Imperialism.38 Embittered and disillusioned, particularly by the failure of Kautsky, so long regarded as Marx's direct successor, to go the whole way with violent revolution, Lenin makes him the scape-goat for all revisionist "renegades" from true Marxism.

Lenin and the communists generally are hostile to the notion that capitalism is capable of adopting a peaceful policy, even temporarily. The fact that capitalism once went through a peaceful stage is regarded as a mere episode in its development.39 Lenin identifies imperialism with the monopoly stage of capitalism and scornfully rejects the view that it is a mere external policy. He looks upon imperialism as "a tendency to violence and reaction in general,"40 and he brands any suggestion that it is otherwise as the talk of bourgeois reformers and socialist opportunists which glosses over the "deepest internal contradictions of imperialism."4I Granting, says Lenin, that capitalist nations should combine into such an "ultra-imperialism" or world-alliance as that visualized by Kautsky and others, it could be no more than temporary, for peaceful alliances prepare the ground for wars.42


But many elites in rich nations, the US (the world’s sole military superpower) above all, still and quite reasonably see an economic payoff in undertaking military engagements in mostly poor and “pre-modern” but resource-rich nations and regions. In a more classically national-imperialist vein, Washington remains committed to the use of military force in pursuit of the control of Middle Eastern oil (and other strategic energy concentrations around the world) because of the critical leverage such control grants the US over competitor states.

The biggest flaw in Krugman’s argument is his failure to make the (one would think) elementary distinction between (a) the wealthy Few and (b) the rest of us and society as whole when it comes to who loses and who gains from contemporary (endless) war, As the venerable U.S. foreign policy critic Edward S. Herman asks and observes:

“Doesn’t war pay for Lockheed-Martin, GE, Raytheon, Honeywell, Halliburton, Chevron, Academi (formerly Blackwater) and the vast further array of contractors and their financial, political, and military allies? An important feature of ‘projecting power’ (i.e., imperialism) has always been the skewed distribution of costs and benefits…The costs have always been borne by the general citizenry (including the dead and injured military personnel and their families), while the benefits accrue to privileged sectors whose members not only profit from arms supply and other services, but can plunder the victim countries during and after the invasion-occupation.”
He was expecting them... KansDem Oct 2015 #1
Just watch his reaction to this question: Trailrider1951 Oct 2015 #116
in my office, a young man got a call from his sister hollysmom Oct 2015 #2
Seeing that young Worried senior Oct 2015 #12
I had to walk away, I was a basket case and it was happening to him. I could not help him. hollysmom Oct 2015 #15
I'm sure it was hell Worried senior Oct 2015 #19
PNAC elleng Oct 2015 #3
+1 Never forget! nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #37
When the question is "Who is behind something horrible?" hifiguy Oct 2015 #97
That gang was and continues to be a bunch of bad actors, elleng Oct 2015 #101
List of PNAC members ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2015 #111
I think he was expecting an attack. mainstreetonce Oct 2015 #4
That is what I have long suspected Siwsan Oct 2015 #6
It was just a coincidence he was out of town that day. PADemD Oct 2015 #17
He was out of town the entire MONTH: arcane1 Oct 2015 #58
I've always thought this - theyexpected an attack, hedgehog Oct 2015 #22
exactly . . .n/t annabanana Oct 2015 #24
I'm not sure Bush knew much. Someone did. Cheney. Rummy. elehhhhna Oct 2015 #60
Cheney was commanding military exercises with the Air Force in New England.[n/t] Maedhros Oct 2015 #67
I remember that very well. truebluegreen Oct 2015 #86
Yup. I describe my position as "LIHOP Lite". KamaAina Oct 2015 #53
His administration certainly benefited greatly. Chemisse Oct 2015 #5
He Had People Around Him That Were Shrewd Enough To Plan This Or Allow It To Happen.... global1 Oct 2015 #9
It's ludicrous that he could still be considered the 'presumptive nominee' when he is in 6th place. Chemisse Oct 2015 #30
Rubio is more likely. nt tblue37 Oct 2015 #41
It Ain't Over Till It's Over.... global1 Oct 2015 #66
That's one of the reasons I least want Bush to win this. Chemisse Oct 2015 #90
I agree. It did just happen treestar Oct 2015 #64
can't start a war of choice without motivating the people first and 9/11 definately did that. craigmatic Oct 2015 #7
“some catastrophic and catalysing event Ernesto Oct 2015 #14
Regarding that quote, OnyxCollie Oct 2015 #21
The Truth Is Never A Conspiracy Yallow Oct 2015 #8
You seem to have decided, so not much point debating the issue... brooklynite Oct 2015 #10
^this^ Adsos Letter Oct 2015 #27
Oh? RobertEarl Oct 2015 #31
+1 NobodyHere Oct 2015 #39
one thing that doesn't require speculation Enrique Oct 2015 #11
Trump didn't seem to imply that at all. Chemisse Oct 2015 #32
Richard Clark repeatedly warned Bushco about the threats until they fired him. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #36
Excellent post malaise Oct 2015 #113
Election 2000 mainstreetonce Oct 2015 #13
"Welcomed"? Not so much IMHO Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2015 #16
^this^ Adsos Letter Oct 2015 #29
Well stated sarisataka Oct 2015 #35
I don't know ... He certainly had no qualms about slaughtering tens of thousands of Iraqis. Arugula Latte Oct 2015 #50
I'm not sure they cared too much about the potential consequences of their actions in Iraq Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2015 #89
I didn't say he welcomed it; my opinion is that it didn't bother him much. Arugula Latte Oct 2015 #108
exactly! sociopaths all! n/t wildbilln864 Oct 2015 #92
He said so himself: Trifecta. SalviaBlue Oct 2015 #18
He was asleep at the wheel Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2015 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author uppityperson Oct 2015 #23
Agree! UCmeNdc Oct 2015 #25
No. I worked for government. HassleCat Oct 2015 #26
But we knew already that Bush and Cheney were warned by the intel community Rex Oct 2015 #28
^^^THAT^^^ onecaliberal Oct 2015 #38
There is also documented proof the CIA had surveillance on some of the terrorists in Florida Rex Oct 2015 #40
Ding! onecaliberal Oct 2015 #42
it is so obvious, that the people making excuses for the Bush WH are like open books. Rex Oct 2015 #45
That would be the Clinton WH, correct? hack89 Oct 2015 #43
Yes and the Clintons passed on all that information to the Bush WH. Rex Oct 2015 #44
Why didn't Clinton simply arrest the hijackers if they knew everything about them? hack89 Oct 2015 #46
You mean for the two weeks he was still in office? Rex Oct 2015 #48
The hijackers were in a America for an entire year before Bush took office hack89 Oct 2015 #51
And when The Clinton WH told the Bush WH about it and gave them all the intel Rex Oct 2015 #52
If the Intel was that detailed than why didn't they arrest the hijackers? hack89 Oct 2015 #55
They were leaving the WH because the term was up and a new group of people were inbound. Rex Oct 2015 #56
So for a year they were clueless and two weeks before leaving they knew everything? hack89 Oct 2015 #62
The Clintons had far less time then the Bush team did and all the info. Rex Oct 2015 #68
You said Clinton gave them all this great intel. hack89 Oct 2015 #82
They ignored it all, boy are you a funny one. Nice defence of Bush and Cheney but fail. Rex Oct 2015 #96
If it was actionable intel hack89 Oct 2015 #98
Obviously they didn't ignore anything and had it all in the report Bush ignored. Rex Oct 2015 #100
So writing a report is action in your mind? hack89 Oct 2015 #102
No in my mind Bush ignored all warning signs from every security report handed to him Rex Oct 2015 #103
You said Clinton gave him everything he needed to stop 911 hack89 Oct 2015 #104
Yes that is what I meant, fail at mind reading. Rex Oct 2015 #105
You said all the WH had to do was tell the CIA to pick up the hijackers hack89 Oct 2015 #106
I said Clinton gave Bush all he needed and Bush ignored it all and failed the country on 9/11. Rex Oct 2015 #107
No. That is exactly what you said in the post hack89 Oct 2015 #109
No you asked me why Clinton did not do something and you would have to ask him personally Rex Oct 2015 #110
For suspicion? B Calm Oct 2015 #57
LOL! I love this! Rex Oct 2015 #59
The poster I am replying to seems to think it was enough for Bush to arrest them hack89 Oct 2015 #63
Maybe Bush should have kept an eye on them since he was briefed about it? B Calm Oct 2015 #65
He didn't read the briefing. He said as much. Rex Oct 2015 #72
But was he? hack89 Oct 2015 #83
A lot more intel and terrorists flying by mid 2000? Rex Oct 2015 #70
It said nothing about flying into buildings jberryhill Oct 2015 #69
True it just mentioned hijacking a plane. Rex Oct 2015 #73
It mentioned explosives, which weren't used... jberryhill Oct 2015 #76
It also mentioned OBL was thinking about hijacking plane(s). Rex Oct 2015 #77
There WAS Intel about them hijacking planes and flying them into buildings. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #84
Not in that memo jberryhill Oct 2015 #87
I said Intel. Did you read the comment. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #91
Bush had a chance to be a hero and ignored his own intel community for 8 months. Rex Oct 2015 #33
Expecting yes, because he was never in charge anyway Puzzledtraveller Oct 2015 #34
Newspapers in Florida was going to announce the results of their presidential recount B Calm Oct 2015 #47
"You've covered your ass" ... Arugula Latte Oct 2015 #49
Why else would he take a month-long vacation 8 months into his term? arcane1 Oct 2015 #54
He had to be ready to maybe jump on the Saudi plane that flew out of country the next day. Rex Oct 2015 #61
Well, PNAC did say they needed a "new Pearl Harbor" so that we could go to war with Iraq jfern Oct 2015 #71
Yeah well that is something else not supposed to be talked about. Rex Oct 2015 #75
I'm in the "Let it happen" camp That Guy 888 Oct 2015 #74
Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #78
I wouldn't say he welcomed the attacks. louis-t Oct 2015 #79
Why would you say that? Rex Oct 2015 #80
This type of conspiracy theory TeddyR Oct 2015 #81
No what is sad is that supposed progressives don't know the history so they post like you do. Rex Oct 2015 #99
Absolutely. I recall it vividly. Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #85
I think Cheney welcomed the attacks. I just am not able to give Shrubby that much credit even for Tipperary Oct 2015 #88
9/11 Trillions: Follow The Money wildbilln864 Oct 2015 #93
Bin Laden Didn't Blow Up the Projects mhatrw Oct 2015 #94
I wouldn't say welcomed, exactly, but LIHOP... Wounded Bear Oct 2015 #95
I'll call the Donald and raise him a: not only did he not keep us safe, but key people associated ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2015 #112
Bush Knew. Cheney did it! pandora nm Oct 2015 #114
yes rockfordfile Oct 2015 #115
I absolutely hate the what the man did to our country LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #117
Without that day he would've been a shitty footnote in history. A failed one termer. At the Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2015 #118
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