HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Why are young feminists s... » Reply #28

Response to uawchild (Original post)

Sun Oct 25, 2015, 02:26 PM

28. it's worth reading the piece that is Wente's subject

rather than just her slant on it. Coincidentally, I read it a few days ago.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/10/why-consensual-sex-can-still-be-bad.html?wpsrc=nymag

So it was only natural that when feminism was resurrected by young women creating a new movement, it was self-consciously sex friendly, insouciant in its approach to the signs and symbols of objectification. No one would ever mistake these feminists for humorless harridans or frigid dick-rejectors. But the underpinning philosophy had shifted slightly. Sex positivity was originally a term used to describe a theory of women, sex, and power; it advocated for any kind of sexual behavior — from kink to celibacy to conscious power play — that women might enjoy on their own terms and not on terms dictated by a misogynistic culture. Now it has become shorthand for a brand of feminism that was a cheerleader for, not a censor of, sex — all sex. Feminism’s sexual focus narrowed in on one issue: coercion and violence. Sex that took place without clear consent wasn’t even sex; it was rape.

In this line of thinking, sex after yes, sex without violence or coercion, is good. Sex is feminist. And empowered women are supposed to enjoy the hell out of it. In fact, Alexandra Brodsky, a Yale law student and founder of anti-rape organization Know Your IX, tells me that she has heard from women who feel that “not having a super-exciting, super-positive sex life is in some ways a political failure.”

Except that young women don’t always enjoy sex — and not because of any innately feminine psychological or physical condition. The hetero (and non-hetero, but, let’s face it, mostly hetero) sex on offer to young women is not of very high quality, for reasons having to do with youthful ineptitude and tenderness of hearts, sure, but also the fact that the game remains rigged.

It’s rigged in ways that go well beyond consent. Students I spoke to talked about “male sexual entitlement,” the expectation that male sexual needs take priority, with men presumed to take sex and women presumed to give it to them. They spoke of how men set the terms, host the parties, provide the alcohol, exert the influence. Male attention and approval remain the validating metric of female worth, and women are still (perhaps increasingly) expected to look and fuck like porn stars — plucked, smooth, their pleasure performed persuasively. Meanwhile, male climax remains the accepted finish of hetero encounters; a woman’s orgasm is still the elusive, optional bonus round. Then there are the double standards that continue to redound negatively to women: A woman in pursuit is loose or hard up; a man in pursuit is healthy and horny. A woman who says no is a prude or a cock tease; a man who says no is rejecting the woman in question. And now these sexual judgments cut in two directions: Young women feel that they are being judged either for having too much sex, or for not having enough, or enough good, sex. Finally, young people often have very drunk sex, which in theory means subpar sex for both parties, but which in practice is often worse (like, physically worse) for women.


Wente can maunder on about the innate nature of men and women all she likes, but unless and until those factors - yeah, the entitled men one and the sexist culture one - are eliminated, we do not have the conditions for an experiment to prove or disprove her thesis.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
uawchild Oct 2015 OP
6chars Oct 2015 #1
uawchild Oct 2015 #3
Chan790 Oct 2015 #2
yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #7
Chan790 Oct 2015 #15
jberryhill Oct 2015 #39
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #4
6chars Oct 2015 #5
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #6
BeanMusical Oct 2015 #27
lame54 Oct 2015 #41
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #13
ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #47
Cal Carpenter Oct 2015 #8
jwirr Oct 2015 #9
REP Oct 2015 #10
jwirr Oct 2015 #14
REP Oct 2015 #18
shrike Oct 2015 #21
REP Oct 2015 #36
catrose Oct 2015 #53
BlueJazz Oct 2015 #12
Avalux Oct 2015 #11
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #16
shrike Oct 2015 #22
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #23
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #26
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #33
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #35
riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #24
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #48
Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #51
closeupready Oct 2015 #17
REP Oct 2015 #19
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #46
closeupready Oct 2015 #49
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #50
closeupready Oct 2015 #52
phylny Oct 2015 #54
Rex Oct 2015 #20
tabasco Oct 2015 #25
LineReply it's worth reading the piece that is Wente's subject
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #28
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #34
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #40
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #43
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #45
Skittles Oct 2015 #55
Oneironaut Oct 2015 #29
riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #30
MisterP Oct 2015 #31
smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #32
REP Oct 2015 #38
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Oct 2015 #44
gollygee Oct 2015 #56
FLPanhandle Oct 2015 #37
Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #42
Please login to view edit histories.