General Discussion

RZM

(8,556 posts)

40. It's not about convoluted semantic arguments

Thu May 31, 2012, 10:41 AM

May 2012

It's about the impression left. And the president's remarks made the wrong impression, even if it's pretty obvious he didn't intend to offend anybody or rewrite history.

As for the role of Poles in the Holocaust, there's no shortage of scholarship on this.

If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend Timothy Snyder's 'Bloodlands,' which is a great recent book on Central/Eastern Europe in the 1930s-40s. He talks at length about the Holocaust and the interaction between Germans and Poles. Jan Gross' 1979 work about the Generalgouvernement still holds up as well.

If you have access to JSTOR, this article is an excellent recent assessment of Polish collaboration and the difficulties in studying it.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3649910?uid=3739256&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=56222087453

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"Polish death camps" [View all] Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 OP

Definetly an "oops" moment. brendan120678 May 2012 #1

It's an oops moment. Arkana May 2012 #2

Apparently the Polish government is not satisfied Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #3

A personal letter from a head of state... FBaggins May 2012 #8

I think an apology would magnify the President's standing. Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #10

Concern noted. trumad May 2012 #4

Your concern for my concern is noted. Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #6

Originality and cleverness noted (nt) Nye Bevan May 2012 #36

All of the real life and death issues on the planet.. 99Forever May 2012 #5

I smell a Ratzo. GoCubsGo May 2012 #7

Then why give them an opportunity to make an issue of it? FBaggins May 2012 #9

He owes the Pope an apology? GoCubsGo May 2012 #13

Who ever said that? FBaggins May 2012 #16

You said it. GoCubsGo May 2012 #18

No... I really didn't. FBaggins May 2012 #32

You "don't need to accept my description"? GoCubsGo May 2012 #65

That's my take, too Mairead May 2012 #14

Sadly, he doesn't really have a choice at this point. GoCubsGo May 2012 #17

'Marching orders from the Vatican?' That's pretty ridiculous RZM May 2012 #19

It's a conspiracy. Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #20

The President was giving the medal to a member of the Polish Underground. GoCubsGo May 2012 #24

Oh yes it is ridiculous RZM May 2012 #27

It's a shame what we're seeing here. catholics weren't even mentioned in the article Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #30

"I just think he misspoke." Mairead May 2012 #53

Thank you. GoCubsGo May 2012 #61

It's ridiculous because you just made it up with not a shred of evidence and keeping on repeating it sabrina 1 May 2012 #83

I never said I had evidence. GoCubsGo May 2012 #84

But the Polish government has no reason to jump on it, Sabrina Mairead May 2012 #93

Of course, but they did, probably disingenuously because it's clear to any rational person sabrina 1 May 2012 #94

And Jews Are Still Waiting For Appologies From The Poles... KharmaTrain May 2012 #11

No... they aren't. FBaggins May 2012 #15

Why not accentuate the positive, too aint_no_life_nowhere May 2012 #73

Really, that is what I was thinking. The worst camps were in Poland adigal May 2012 #88

I Try To Keep My Prejudices Under Control... KharmaTrain May 2012 #89

Words can't express the sorrow I feel for your family adigal May 2012 #97

Of course they knew about it -- who else do you think were in the camps? obamanut2012 May 2012 #96

Yes, I know many Poles suffered, and as I said, many were brave adigal May 2012 #101

Nobody has claimed that "all Poles were innocent" FBaggins May 2012 #104

I would expect a personal apology from any president - lynne May 2012 #12

I agree and I think it's like calling Abu Ghraib an 'Iraqi prison' RZM May 2012 #22

Well said, RZM. n/t ChazII May 2012 #33

Thanks n/t RZM May 2012 #35

No apology needed. Period. No-one thinks the Poles ran the death camps. truebrit71 May 2012 #21

You're placing way too much blame on the Poles here RZM May 2012 #26

I respectfully disagree. truebrit71 May 2012 #37

It's not about convoluted semantic arguments RZM May 2012 #40

Again I disagree. I knew what the President meant when he said 'Polish Death Camp'... truebrit71 May 2012 #58

Auschwitz wasn't in Poland obamanut2012 May 2012 #95

It most definitely IS (and was). Take a look at a map and get back to me... truebrit71 Jun 2012 #105

I took his comment as meaning "Polish death camps" as in "Nazi death camps in Poland" Zalatix May 2012 #23

YES, this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ maggiesfarmer May 2012 #68

Yes. It seems stupid to me to make an issue of it treestar May 2012 #71

Poland should drop it leftynyc May 2012 #25

You tell 'em, cowboy. Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #28

No kidding. redwitch May 2012 #29

Post #15 Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #31

Lol! That's the ticket! FBaggins May 2012 #34

A bizarre tactic. What causes that? Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #41

He already said he misspoke leftynyc May 2012 #43

Whatever happened to improving our image in the world? Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #45

Sorry, that doesn't include leftynyc May 2012 #50

What nation received the most Righteous Among the Nations awards? FBaggins May 2012 #85

Word. Brickbat May 2012 #90

Did he? FBaggins May 2012 #47

Try reading more carefully leftynyc May 2012 #49

Your link doesn't support your claim. FBaggins May 2012 #52

Oh for Heaven's sake leftynyc May 2012 #56

Interesting that you expect a head of state to "stand up for their country"... FBaggins May 2012 #64

That's some ego you got there leftynyc May 2012 #67

You would have been much better off... FBaggins May 2012 #69

Awww - poor baby leftynyc May 2012 #79

AS IF it hasn't been fully and impartially studied already... cherokeeprogressive May 2012 #42

It's not about saving face leftynyc May 2012 #44

You're saying he misspoke but that he didn't misspeak. Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #46

They are claiming leftynyc May 2012 #48

'Transported them to the camps?' RZM May 2012 #51

Uh - no leftynyc May 2012 #59

Poland was invaded and lost. FBaggins May 2012 #60

That's a whitewash of history leftynyc May 2012 #63

No... it really isn't. FBaggins May 2012 #66

I was taking this as a simple faux pas Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #70

"Their "victimhood" is bullshit." Mairead May 2012 #55

"many"??? Seriously??? leftynyc May 2012 #57

Yes, many. Seriously. Mairead May 2012 #75

You don't even know what the leftynyc May 2012 #81

I'm certainly beginning to see a pattern emerging. (nt) Mairead May 2012 #82

And there were just as many that were more than eager to assist the Nazis in their task... truebrit71 May 2012 #62

If you want to focus on disgusting, look at the Zionists. Mairead May 2012 #80

It totally eclipses his "Corpse Man" pecadillo slackmaster May 2012 #38

I voted for #1. It was clearly a kind of slip of the tongue. His advisors and speech writers CTyankee May 2012 #39

They need to get over it Happydayz May 2012 #54

So what would be the proper way to say this? DCBob May 2012 #72

"Nazi Death Camp in Poland". truebrit71 May 2012 #74

Were there Polish Nazis? DCBob May 2012 #76

No doubt there were collaborators Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #78

Sarah's Key is a very good movie about France's complicity with rounding up Jews for CTyankee May 2012 #87

Coco Chanel was a Nazi collaborator, every time they discuss her company's clothes adigal May 2012 #98

absolutely disgusting. CTyankee Jun 2012 #107

"Konclager w zajmowanym Polsce" Mairead May 2012 #77

I like that. DCBob May 2012 #91

The Poles and Poland were just gutted by the Nazis obamanut2012 May 2012 #86

It would be good if he could visit Auschwitz. We run the risk of having future generation forget CTyankee May 2012 #103

But there were MANY that were more than happy to help their occupiers... truebrit71 Jun 2012 #106

We already said we regretted it. They should get over it Blue_Tires May 2012 #92

He is usually pretty good about apologizing deaniac21 May 2012 #99

'Other' - Do nothing. Drunken Irishman May 2012 #100

Is the DU defined by being anti? sarisataka May 2012 #102

He mispoke... ellisonz Jun 2012 #108