General Discussion

Orrex

(63,154 posts)

72. I disagree

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:22 PM

Feb 2016

A great deal of the current pro-gun rhetoric both on DU and in the real world is based squarely on the purported right of the individual to keep and bear arms. If it were decided, for example, that the 2nd Amendment applies to actual militias rather than to individuals, it would fundamentally transform the debate.

Time to stop using the 2A as an excuse. If you want to pass stricter gun control then convince the American people that you are right.

Oh, come on. You know as well as I do that "the American people" have little impact on the process when the NRA and its puppets have billions already in the system. Further, any law that gets passed will be swatted down as contrary to the very amendment that you pretend is irrelevant.

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Should Gun Owners Have to Join the Reserves? IE "A well regulated militia". [View all] marble falls Feb 2016 OP

Already a member Press Virginia Feb 2016 #1

Well, if George Mason said it, tabasco Feb 2016 #47

If we're going to suggest that gun owners be members of the Militia Press Virginia Feb 2016 #49

And you posted George Mason's opinion tabasco Feb 2016 #55

It happens to be the very definition of what the Militia is Press Virginia Feb 2016 #58

And now we have your opinion. tabasco Feb 2016 #67

Not my opinion....it's the actual definition of the word Press Virginia Feb 2016 #71

"Well regulated militia" is not every jackass walking down the street. tabasco Feb 2016 #81

This message was self-deleted by its author Press Virginia Feb 2016 #82

It's not? why? Press Virginia Feb 2016 #89

A jackass walking down the street is not "well regulated." tabasco Feb 2016 #94

The Guard and Reserve are State and Federal Military branches Press Virginia Feb 2016 #96

Well sheesh that's easy - oh right its the Congress,... jmg257 Feb 2016 #110

They can do that when they call forth the Militia to put down insurrection or fight invasion Press Virginia Feb 2016 #111

NO - they have the power all the time. It is quite clear how the Militias were to be regulated. jmg257 Feb 2016 #115

This message was self-deleted by its author Press Virginia Feb 2016 #116

Only when they have been called forth as prescribed in Art 1 Press Virginia Feb 2016 #118

Sorry you are wrong. It doesn't say that. You are confusing "governing" with "organizing..." jmg257 Feb 2016 #119

The militia is not currently in service to the US, right? Press Virginia Feb 2016 #120

Well- you or I are not in the Constitutional Militia, nor the new well-regulated jmg257 Feb 2016 #121

Actually we are. Press Virginia Feb 2016 #125

THE Militias are (or were) well-defined entities. They pre-dated the Constitution. jmg257 Feb 2016 #127

You are aware that the Guard is the government and the 2A wasn't intended to Press Virginia Feb 2016 #130

I am aware the NG is a federal entity, and serves as reserve for the military. jmg257 Feb 2016 #131

Commissions aren't from the state. So the state isn't appointing officers Press Virginia Feb 2016 #132

Now that's a good argument! I like it. jmg257 Feb 2016 #133

Thank you. Enjoyed the discussion Press Virginia Feb 2016 #134

It is the law of the land. former9thward Feb 2016 #88

Go read title 10 of the Federal code. The question has already been answered. nt hack89 Feb 2016 #2

The 2A protects an individual right to keep and bear arms hack89 Feb 2016 #3

Please speculate as to what would happen: Orrex Feb 2016 #65

Fair enough question. In your own words, how would this state of affairs be brought about? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #68

Nothing will happen since the 2A is somewhat irrelevant to the failure of gun control at the moment hack89 Feb 2016 #69

I disagree Orrex Feb 2016 #72

AWBs, registration, licensing, magazine size limit laws were not "swatted down" were they? hack89 Feb 2016 #76

And they are routinely mocked as useless "feel good" legislation Orrex Feb 2016 #84

So give me a concrete example of a law that was recently overturned in court due to the 2A hack89 Feb 2016 #85

I'm on a phone--can't give links now Orrex Feb 2016 #91

What did the AWB that was in effect at state level during sandy hook do... beevul Feb 2016 #92

So effective laws were passed against NRA opposition? hack89 Feb 2016 #93

Look, I know you're not stupid, so don't waste my time. Orrex Feb 2016 #100

No. You were going to show me effective laws that were "swatted down" because of the 2A hack89 Feb 2016 #102

I would agree that some form of reglulated entity... NeoGreen Feb 2016 #4

I agree with the individual right Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #5

I already served, so why should I have to join the Reserves, even if I were young enough? eom GGJohn Feb 2016 #6

I'm all for mandatory service for every citizen, not just for those who want to purchase a firearm TeddyR Feb 2016 #7

My grandfather owned 450 acres on the Brazos River in Texas Recursion Feb 2016 #8

You mean like these guys in Texas protesting undocumented kids at an INS center? marble falls Feb 2016 #9

No, I don't, thanks for asking! Recursion Feb 2016 #10

Not at all. I'm not talking about firearms as tools. I'm talking about firearms as ... marble falls Feb 2016 #16

A gun on farm seems OK. Carrying a gun because one is afraid of, or hates certain, people is another Hoyt Feb 2016 #28

How are the militia to be regulated and by whom? Press Virginia Feb 2016 #103

Are you saying these gun yahoos will be called up in an insurrection. Hoyt Feb 2016 #106

They may be. You didn't answer my question, though. Press Virginia Feb 2016 #109

Yes, any yahoo that needs to strap on a gun or two to go to the store, needs counseling. Hoyt Feb 2016 #136

As do those who... beevul Feb 2016 #137

Great. Still not an answer to the question I asked Press Virginia Feb 2016 #139

I did, you just can't get your mind off gunz long enough to recognize the answer. Hoyt Feb 2016 #140

Uh no you didn't. You did obsess over Ted Nugent and some fat guys at a Denny's Press Virginia Feb 2016 #141

Congress - Article I section 8 is quite clear... jmg257 Feb 2016 #112

Only when they are called forth to put down insurrection or defend from invasion Press Virginia Feb 2016 #114

They way some people here think of gun owners, I can't imagine they'd want them in the reserves. Brickbat Feb 2016 #11

They are just looking for a reason to deny access... TipTok Feb 2016 #12

Yep, or a way to "punish." Brickbat Feb 2016 #13

Heh. I saw that. Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #66

Makes sense to me Jim Beard Feb 2016 #14

A personality test? GGJohn Feb 2016 #15

I took one on Facebook Press Virginia Feb 2016 #18

How about to pull psychopaths, sociopaths out of the mix? marble falls Feb 2016 #19

You know how easy it is to fake one of those? GGJohn Feb 2016 #20

Or holding office. nt malokvale77 Feb 2016 #61

Yes. Every one of them. The English language isn't that hard. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #17

No. GGJohn Feb 2016 #21

Excellent rebuttal. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #22

Thank you. GGJohn Feb 2016 #23

Well, because the second amendment says so. Read it very carefully using all of your braincells. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #24

Sorry, but that's been long debunked, GGJohn Feb 2016 #25

No, the Constitution says Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #26

So, are all you gun fanciers over 45 gonna turn yours in per Title 10 USC, Section 311? Hoyt Feb 2016 #29

No, we will keep them in accordance with the Democratic Party platform. nt hack89 Feb 2016 #31

Nope, I'll keep mine in accordance with the SC decision of Heller v DC, GGJohn Feb 2016 #32

You'd keep yours if they were banned. You can't live without them. Hoyt Feb 2016 #33

Probably, but that's not something to worry about, GGJohn Feb 2016 #34

And to go to town. If you just kept one or two on the farm, wouldn't get criticism. Hoyt Feb 2016 #38

I could care less about your criticism, GGJohn Feb 2016 #40

The criticism of those who confuse keyboard use with real-life activism is merely noise... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #53

How about those that say gunz are preserving the Constitution or some such BS. Hoyt Feb 2016 #54

*They* work to meet their goals. You lot do little besides wear out keyboards complaining about them friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #56

Yep, they back the NRA and it's racist board members like this loser. Hoyt Feb 2016 #60

What have *you* done in the real world to counter the NRA besides reposting pictures? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #62

Answer: Nothing, apparently... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #144

You seem fascinated with this blowhole. Why? Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #70

Typical gun fancier/supporter, don't you think? Hoyt Feb 2016 #74

Nope. Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #75

Very common in my experience -- and an NRA Board Member to boot. Hoyt Feb 2016 #77

That's the problem woth your POV. Snobblevitch Feb 2016 #97

Haven't seen anything to change my mind. How many do you have and do you tote? Hoyt Feb 2016 #98

I have written many times on these threads that I do not have a CCW. Snobblevitch Feb 2016 #104

Here's another state and I can find plenty more. Hoyt Feb 2016 #105

Anecdotal and not representative of the vast majority of gun owners in ANY state. Snobblevitch Feb 2016 #107

What is it with you always posting pictures of your kin? GGJohn Feb 2016 #122

Your gun buddies is more like it. Hoyt Feb 2016 #135

I guess... beevul Feb 2016 #138

It's kind of humorous in a sad way Press Virginia Feb 2016 #101

Where does Title 10 USC, Section 311 require turning-in weapons after turning 46? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #35

Logic challenges you doesn't it. If you are 46, you aren't in the militia. Turn em in. Hoyt Feb 2016 #36

Please highlight the part where it says you have to turn in your weapons upon turning GGJohn Feb 2016 #39

There's no turn-in requirement. That's pretend wanna-beleev on your part. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #41

It doesn't, that's just Hoyt trying to look like he knows what he's talking about. eom. GGJohn Feb 2016 #37

If the militia was truly their genuine concern they'd be arguing to ensure civilians have access to Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #43

Perhaps it's your own braincells you shouold be concerned with. cleanhippie Feb 2016 #42

Damned commanists. At least they don't deal with the foulness of the semi-colon! Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #123

Having read it very carefully, Abq_Sarah Feb 2016 #143

Why then, are you having troubles understanding it? beevul Feb 2016 #79

What if that gun owner is a Quaker and opposed to warfare? NutmegYankee Feb 2016 #86

"I'm out of soda, I'm going to the store." -- do stores only sell soda? X_Digger Feb 2016 #142

No (nt) bigwillq Feb 2016 #27

Sure, why not. Iggo Feb 2016 #30

No: preserving the ability of states to summon a militia is (one) reason for petronius Feb 2016 #44

Im sure in those States with the gun deaths they contain large urban settings with gang/drug Waldorf Feb 2016 #45

Or be deputized by a local authority. KamaAina Feb 2016 #46

"Someone" is *already* responsible- the person with the gun. See how that works? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #59

This message was self-deleted by its author Kurska Feb 2016 #48

No... ileus Feb 2016 #50

Note that Federal law declares all males between 17 and 44 (inclusive) to be in the militia... PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #51

You left out an important part - "the UNORGANIZED militia"... jmg257 Feb 2016 #113

Heck, yeah libodem Feb 2016 #52

Who is "us"? Marengo Feb 2016 #99

Love the idea. nt valerief Feb 2016 #57

Fortunately, those with the author's viewpoint have little to no political efficacy... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2016 #63

Difficult question .... Myrina Feb 2016 #64

Even in GD, the controllers seem confused as to their "stand" on the OP's question... Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #73

Ummm....NO ! nt clarice Feb 2016 #78

Another misrepresentation from an ignorant author. beevul Feb 2016 #80

No. Phentex Feb 2016 #83

I always laugh at this interpretation. NutmegYankee Feb 2016 #87

Ha... Never heard that one... TipTok Feb 2016 #90

Nope SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2016 #95

Right, because what we really need to do with these people is invest them with civil authority. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #108

No, people should learn how to read, and interpret, the wording.... Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #117

The should be outlawed from purchasing any meat at retail ... LannyDeVaney Feb 2016 #124

Why try to limit the responsibility to gun owners? jmg257 Feb 2016 #126

No, deathrind Feb 2016 #128

K & R for visibility of this w0nderer Feb 2016 #129