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thucythucy

(8,045 posts)
28. As I understand it, separation of church and state
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 10:59 PM
Jun 2012

means that the state can't and shouldn't throw its support behind one or another particular religion, or religion in general; that government shouldn't be used to force people to believe (or not to believe) in any particular faith.

On the other hand, "legislating morality" is precisely what Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. wanted to accomplish by passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. According to his Christian belief, it was immoral for people to be excluded from jobs, from housing, from education, from medical care, simply because of the color of their skin. He, as leader of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, was at the vanguard of the struggle for civil rights. Are you saying Rev. King should have "checked his religious baggage at the door" when he went to Congress and the White House to support the Civil Rights Act? Along with Rev. Ralph Abernathy, Rev. Jessie Jackson, and all the other ministers who led the marches in Selma, in Birmingham, in Washington? Do you disagree with President Kennedy when he said the struggle for civil rights was the great moral issue of the time? And when Rev. King denounced the Vietnam war as violating his Christian faith, and called for an end to funding for the war, and to use the money instead to build schools, hospitals, and housing, wasn't he trying to legislate his own morality (or at least get others--notably liberal Democrats like George McGovern -- to legislate it for him)?

It all depends on which morality you see as important. Personally, I think the government should have absolutely no say whatsoever in what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own lives. This is in direct opposition to the religious right, who have a fixation, an obsession really, with what other people do with their genitals. I DO think government has a role in providing access to comprehensive health care for all women--including contraception for women who can't afford it otherwise. That, to me, is the moral thing to do. If my reasoning for this is religious, why should I, as a liberal Democrat, be expected to deny it?

Similarly, I think the moral thing to do is to acknowledge the existence of global climate change, and our responsibility for it, and to act to stop it so that future generations won't pay the cost for our own selfishness and consumerism. (To progressive Christians, our consumerism is a form of idolatry: the god of America is money, and if anyone tells you otherwise...well, their eyes still need to be opened). So asking government to step in to regulate carbon emissions is in fact legislating morality--passing laws to force us to do the moral thing by our children and grandchildren.

Again, if you and I have the same goals, including specific legislation and policy we want to see passed and implemented, why should the fact that I might be motivated by religious belief be such a problem?

I think the Democratic Party made a huge mistake in the late 1960s in ceding the religious high ground to conservative Republicans. This happened after the assassination of Rev. King, which left a vacuum in American religious leadership on the left. Richard Nixon pursued a strategy of wooing and co-opting religious conservatives like Billy Graham; Ronald Reagan continued that strategy with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson; G.W. Bush with Ted Haggart and Focus on the Family. By contrast, Democrats have done nothing that I can see to reach out to the religious left.

As I said, whether you have faith or not, it's time we undid that mistake.

Democrats should pull the Jesus card [View all] sandyshoes17 Jun 2012 OP
Nah, the fastest growing demographic in this country is the non-religious. LAGC Jun 2012 #1
Yes, the non-religious are a growing consitutency . . . MrModerate Jun 2012 #9
It would bring religious liberals into the fold. Zalatix Jun 2012 #2
I got news for you ... religious liberals are ALREADY in the fold. Bake Jun 2012 #52
Good idea SoutherDem Jun 2012 #3
Nice contrast, huh? freshwest Jun 2012 #5
I don't elect politicians to be my spiritual counselors. kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #4
Yeah, but so many believe Obama is the Anti-Christ. We need a buffer zone. freshwest Jun 2012 #6
Here's a perfect example of how this would work: thucythucy Jun 2012 #7
Exactly sandyshoes17 Jun 2012 #10
i like knowing that when little kids tease old prophets and pull their beards iemitsu Jun 2012 #24
The problem is.... Xolodno Jun 2012 #8
"This will piss off the militant atheists here..." LAGC Jun 2012 #11
It doesn't matter which side someone is on turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #13
I don't really care what your religious beliefs happen to be. LAGC Jun 2012 #14
If you will please forgive me, but.... aka-chmeee Jun 2012 #20
Read my post 28 below thucythucy Jun 2012 #34
There's a lot of excellent stuff in Isaiah thucythucy Jun 2012 #36
I think it may have less to do with tradition thucythucy Jun 2012 #16
I guess I just don't see how Separation of Church and State should alienate you. LAGC Jun 2012 #17
As I understand it, separation of church and state thucythucy Jun 2012 #28
The problem is, when you start legislating morality based on religious views... LAGC Jun 2012 #37
The right will do the same thucythucy Jun 2012 #39
Well, the civil rights movement was inevitable. LAGC Jun 2012 #40
There was nothing inevitable about the triumph thucythucy Jun 2012 #44
You're pretty quick to discount Marx. LAGC Jun 2012 #49
Nothing you've written offends me, thucythucy Jun 2012 #51
right wing religious groups iemitsu Jun 2012 #26
There is in fact a long history of the religious left thucythucy Jun 2012 #12
This Athiest LOVES, LOVEs, to call out the right wing on Biblical terms. JoePhilly Jun 2012 #15
am blessed(??) with turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #19
I'm sure there are zealot Athiests. JoePhilly Jun 2012 #42
Yeah, its got to be a turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #43
There's a good reason why the wingnuts have the godnuts Major Nikon Jun 2012 #18
GLORY BE NOT TO THE REPUBLICAN JESUS!!! tomkoop Jun 2012 #21
I don't want the Democratic Party to be in bed with Big Religion. AJTheMan Jun 2012 #22
Define bias? Define exclusion? -thanks turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #31
Progressive and left Christians are not "Big Religion." thucythucy Jun 2012 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author AJTheMan Jun 2012 #35
Not that we should become wingnuts sandyshoes17 Jun 2012 #23
They are also trying to convince us that money is god; thucythucy Jun 2012 #38
This was done on a fairly large scale in the sixties. WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2012 #25
But much has been destroyed since then. turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #33
Ever read much about Anton Lavey and the Church of Satan? dawg Jun 2012 #27
How Would Jesus Govern Poiuyt Jun 2012 #29
Dems could say anything as long as frogmarch Jun 2012 #30
Maybe the Jesus action figure? trusty elf Jun 2012 #41
Great...religious wars between political parties...just what we need... cynatnite Jun 2012 #45
I get disgusted when any politician pulls their religion card out. Autumn Jun 2012 #46
Most of the right Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #47
Honey- that's how you do it in Red Texas w8liftinglady Jun 2012 #48
Why would I... 99Forever Jun 2012 #50
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