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J_J_

(1,213 posts)

74. Tony Blair, Bush's poodle, was on the other side

Reply to LeftishBrit (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:42 AM

Jun 2016

Perhaps we should learn to think for ourselves.

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Please, please stop spreading the lie that Brexit was to fight against neoliberalism [View all] DetlefK Jun 2016 OP

Add to that: Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #1

+ 10000000 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #2

Amen n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #5

The vote was a whole lot less about "bigoted nostalgia" than about pensions, or the loss of them. leveymg Jun 2016 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #9

They care a whole lot less about them than those who are facing poverty in old age. leveymg Jun 2016 #13

Thank you....n/t whathehell Jun 2016 #27

Your comments are always much appreciated. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #31

Pensions? I didn't hear pensions mentioned once in the campaign muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #19

Nice try - Scotland? Northern Ireland? any answer yet? pkdu Jun 2016 #30

I already answered that. Like Ireland, Scotland and N Ire gain from EU and global investment leveymg Jun 2016 #86

Thats a bullshit answer , Scotland and N.I. have been impacted just as much if not more so pkdu Jun 2016 #90

Take a look at these maps of UK income distribution and the Brexit vote leveymg Jun 2016 #92

Take a look at the color of NI in your own graphic! FAIL (again) pkdu Jun 2016 #93

The general pattern seems to line up otherwise. Agree? leveymg Jun 2016 #95

Nope...you are just plain wrong...look at all the expression of voters exiting below...especially pkdu Jun 2016 #116

See #111. The close split on capitalism most closely reflects the outcome of the referendum. leveymg Jun 2016 #117

No, the close split on capitalism means that capitalism has nothing to do with the referendum muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #124

Last name order is purely random. But, opinion on capitalism is relevant to one's Brexit vote leveymg Jun 2016 #125

Downloaded the detailed data. Some interesting findings: Retired and unemployed were mostly Leavers leveymg Jun 2016 #127

Detailed data at Table 33 says you're wrong, Muriel. Poorer areas-Leave, poorer respondents-Leave. leveymg Jun 2016 #128

Those figures you've quoted aren't about Remain or Leave, though muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #129

That merely obscures the data: Leave correlates strongly with class, employment, age, leveymg Jun 2016 #135

It correlates much more strongly with views against immigration and multiculturalism muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #136

The data does not show that older Britains are "quite happy with capitalism" Only 39% say leveymg Jun 2016 #137

No, 39% is the overall capitalism 'good' figure; for 65+, it's 47% muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #138

So, you didn't find anything that provides a ranking of these issues by importance? leveymg Jun 2016 #140

No, nothing ranking those issues muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #141

Seems to be a strange omission. I'll look later. Thanks. leveymg Jun 2016 #142

An ORB poll showed 52/37 considered the UK economy a bigger issue than immigration leveymg Jun 2016 #143

That's the figures for everyone; Leave were 31% economy more important, 57% disagreeing muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #144

The winners will create a "neoliberal fantasy island freed from EU regulations". Pensions are going pampango Jun 2016 #33

+1, /nt Marr Jun 2016 #57

Pensions?! That's an invented angle. And it's not Ageism to show the very clear divide in the vote Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #59

"Bigoted nostalgia", didn't see that, a new one and a variant of, appalachiablue Jun 2016 #91

There seem to be a lot of apologists for neoliberalism on DU, of late. leveymg Jun 2016 #94

Long Live Neoliberalism! The lengths gone to here to demolish appalachiablue Jun 2016 #98

Just because LWolf Jun 2016 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #10

And what evidence lead you to these conclusions??? DetlefK Jun 2016 #23

I didn't say LWolf Jun 2016 #28

+5 appalachiablue Jun 2016 #32

But where is the connection? DetlefK Jun 2016 #42

There is an abundance of connections LWolf Jun 2016 #66

Let's see: DetlefK Jun 2016 #112

I think the misunderstanding is over the basic ambiguity of neoliberalism seabeckind Jun 2016 #114

Yes. LWolf Jun 2016 #120

+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #134

"Neoliberalism is at the core of Brexit". No, pure bred conservativism is at the core of Brexit. pampango Jun 2016 #37

No. LWolf Jun 2016 #62

Baloney. FDR was neither neoliberal nor conservative. Sweden is not neoliberal nor conservative now. pampango Jun 2016 #73

wtf LWolf Jun 2016 #79

FDR viewed conservatives as the enemy. He welcomed their hatred. pampango Jun 2016 #88

Neoliberalism LWolf Jun 2016 #96

FDR talked a lot about conservatism because it was an issue of his era. It still is, IMHO. pampango Jun 2016 #99

Neoliberalism is a socioeconomic CONSERVATIVE LIBERTARIANISM. Hortensis Jun 2016 #68

Thanks for the definition. That does not prove anything with respect to Brexit. Polling date shows pampango Jun 2016 #76

Most people have no idea what neoliberalism is, Hortensis Jun 2016 #100

Except TubbersUK Jun 2016 #63

Trump is led on the right. LWolf Jun 2016 #69

But Conservative voters are predominantly MIDDLE class TubbersUK Jun 2016 #89

I would start by LWolf Jun 2016 #97

Sure, there are some, but they're Conservative voters nonetheless TubbersUK Jun 2016 #115

Plenty of conservatives are anti-establishment. LWolf Jun 2016 #121

"The anti-government, anti-intellectual bent is conservative. " TubbersUK Jun 2016 #122

The City of London is neoliberal with a gusto. The rest of England a lot less so, obviously. leveymg Jun 2016 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #7

Scotland's economy is more tied to Europe than the English Midlands and South. And Separatism. leveymg Jun 2016 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #12

Scotland is simple to expain. They were sitting in the catbird's seat. AntiBank Jun 2016 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #16

Scotland, Wales, and NI subsidise their students AntiBank Jun 2016 #21

As progressive countries will do. They voted to Remain. Smart move on their part. pampango Jun 2016 #40

the link works and it has no political bias AntiBank Jun 2016 #45

I agree that Scotland and Sanders are both progressive on lowering college fees. Both were Remain pampango Jun 2016 #52

here is newer article about the fees AntiBank Jun 2016 #65

Scot here. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #18

thanks for the detailed reply, you echo many of my Scottish mates AntiBank Jun 2016 #22

I'm not really anything 100%! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #35

Spot on TubbersUK Jun 2016 #26

Thanks for the input, interesting. Like the way you described civic nationalism. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #41

That outlook on nationalism/separatism is our ideal. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #46

Understood, there's always some rotters around appalachiablue Jun 2016 #85

Thank you for the inside skinny. And, thanks for the Scotch, too! leveymg Jun 2016 #107

You have provided the answer. Looks like no one is listening. yourpaljoey Jun 2016 #39

An odd little cheering section for the City of London has popped up here. leveymg Jun 2016 #108

Well, you tried yourpaljoey Jun 2016 #110

The City of London is different to Greater London! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #130

I used to work on the Floor of the NYSE. The City of London is Wall St East leveymg Jun 2016 #131

It wasn't clear from any of your posts what you know about the place, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #132

London voted heavily to stay n/t n2doc Jun 2016 #15

London has plenty serious pockets of deprivation. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #49

So open borders neoliberalism is better then closed borders neoliberalism runaway hero Jun 2016 #17

I am arguing that Brexit had nothing to do with being for or against neoliberalism. DetlefK Jun 2016 #24

Progressive like with strong labor and environmental standards, world class income equality, pampango Jun 2016 #44

They why did those same people just leave runaway hero Jun 2016 #101

Why did some Labour voters vote to Leave? For the same reasons that many, many Conservative pampango Jun 2016 #103

But the many didn't show up runaway hero Jun 2016 #104

"Young people didn't show when it mattered yet again." And old people did and got their way. pampango Jun 2016 #105

No problem runaway hero Jun 2016 #106

It's almost as absurd as saying they are racists because they didn't want open borders. modem77 Jun 2016 #20

Neoliberals are loving Brexit since it let's them force the UK... joshcryer Jun 2016 #25

17.4 million ignorant racists voted leave Teamster Jeff Jun 2016 #29

Maybe you aren't a person of color / Polish accent / headscarf who has spent time in Britain lately. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #70

If you're South Asian it's pretty bad Recursion Jun 2016 #119

I believe you. Sorry to hear that. Nm Teamster Jeff Jun 2016 #126

This chart completely demolishes that meme about Brexit being a rejection of neoliberalism YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #34

If you really, really want it to be about rejecting neoliberalism, polling data does not matter. pampango Jun 2016 #50

Interesting how the divide on capitalism most closely reflects the actual vote. leveymg Jun 2016 #111

Let us note that with a few exceptions the Brexit leaders were RIGHT wing LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #36

Boris is Bananas, even manic, albeit entertaining at times. Can't believe he'd be PM. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #43

Tony Blair, Bush's poodle, was on the other side J_J_ Jun 2016 #74

Yes, and a start would be not listening to the right-wing media LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #82

and Donald Trump and Sarah Palin were all for the exit still_one Jun 2016 #83

My thread regarding such did not claim that the vote was logical. appal_jack Jun 2016 #38

Did you mean the word embarrassing? Rex Jun 2016 #47

It's crossed the line from "embarrassing" to "shameful", honestly Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #48

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #55

Oh No!!! A typo derailed my whole argument!!! Foiled again!!! DetlefK Jun 2016 #54

Good luck preaching to the antineoliberalchorus who are mostly just parrots. Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #51

Is this NeoliberalismUnderground.com now? fbc Jun 2016 #53

I cannot be since it already is leftistconspiracytheories.com DetlefK Jun 2016 #58

It has to be. LWolf Jun 2016 #72

Profit = neoliberal?? Gosh. (It's not simplistic like that.) . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #56

profits while keeping down workers = neoliberalism. Exilednight Jun 2016 #77

None of your rant against neoliberalism (as you define it) has anything to do with UK, EU or Brexit. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #87

In other words "you asked a question that I can't answer so I'm going to Exilednight Jun 2016 #102

It's OK. You could have tied your def'n to UK, used UK/EU examples, but we don't need to go further. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #109

And we have your word for that? fasttense Jun 2016 #60

Bob Crow would also be bitterly opposed Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #71

Your correct, I don't need his words the rest of the article proves the point. fasttense Jun 2016 #75

LIVING HERE! That's where my proof is. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #78

The writer of the article also lives there. fasttense Jun 2016 #81

Pretty much 99% of the UK DUers Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #84

David Harvey uses the term neoliberalism to describe Lewis Powell's 1971 confidential memorandum to jtuck004 Jun 2016 #61

It is not quite as simple as that Dustbowl Observer Jun 2016 #64

Anyone claiming that BREXIT was driven by one thing is disingenuous Saviolo Jun 2016 #67

I don't believe layering over one neoliberal prone government with another is not fasttense Jun 2016 #80

Gutter-Populism ultimately degenerates into paranoid conspiracy theories about the "Powers That Be". Odin2005 Jun 2016 #113

If it was a rejection of neoliberalism, conservative voters are sure smarter than liberal voters pampango Jun 2016 #118

Yes TubbersUK Jun 2016 #123

Real estate fun and games might've played a role. proverbialwisdom Jun 2016 #133

+1000 Blue_Tires Jun 2016 #139