Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

AntiBank

(1,339 posts)
112. Bullshit. But you knew that already.
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 10:35 AM
Jul 2016
Glenn Greenwald Responds to Widespread Lies About Him (on Cato, Iraq War, and more)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/1/30/1182442/-Glenn-Greenwald-Responds-to-Widespread-Lies-About-Him-on-Cato-Iraq-War-and-more

Anyone who develops any sort of platform in US political debates becomes a target of hostility and attack. That's just the nature of politics everywhere. Those attacks often are advanced with falsehoods, fabrications and lies about the person. In general, the point of these falsehoods is to attack and discredit the messenger in lieu of engaging the substance of the critiques.

There are a series of common lies frequently told about me which I'm addressing here. During the Bush years, when I was criticizing George Bush and the GOP in my daily writing and books, there was a set of lies about me personally that came from the hardest-core Bush followers that I finally addressed. The new set comes largely from the hardest-core Obama followers.

I've ignored these for awhile, mostly because they have never appeared in any consequential venue, but rather are circulated only by anonymous commenters or obscure, hackish blogs. That is still the case, but they've become sufficiently circulated that it's now worthwhile to address and debunk them. Anyone wishing to do so can judge the facts for themselves. The following lies are addressed here:

1. I work/worked for the Cato Institute
2. I'm a right-wing libertarian
3. I supported the Iraq War and/or George Bush
4. I moved to Brazil to protest US laws on gay marriage
5. Because I live in Brazil, I have no "skin in the game" for US politics
6. I was sanctioned or otherwise punished for ethical violations in my law practice



snip


I supported the Iraq War and/or George Bush

These claim [sic] are absolutely false. They come from a complete distortion of the Preface I wrote to my own 2006 book, How Would a Patriot Act? That book - which was the first book devoted to denouncing the Bush/Cheney executive power theories as radical and lawless - was published a mere six months after I began blogging, so the the purpose of the Preface was to explain where I had come from, why I left my law practice to begin writing about politics, and what my political evolution had been..

The whole point of the Preface was that, before 2004, I had been politically apathetic and indifferent - except for the work I was doing on constitutional law. That's because, while I had no interest in the fights between Democrats and Republicans, I had a basic trust in the American political system and its institutions, such that I devoted my attention and energies to preventing constitutional violations rather than political debates. From the first two paragraphs:

I never voted for George W. Bush — or for any of his political opponents. I believed that voting was not particularly important. Our country, it seemed to me, was essentially on the right track. Whether Democrats or Republicans held the White House or the majorities in Congress made only the most marginal difference. . . .

I firmly believed that our democratic system of government was sufficiently insulated from any real abuse, by our Constitution and by the checks and balances afforded by having three separate but equal branches of government. My primary political belief was that both parties were plagued by extremists who were equally dangerous and destructive, but that as long as neither extreme acquired real political power, our system would function smoothly and more or less tolerably. For that reason, although I always paid attention to political debates, I was never sufficiently moved to become engaged in the electoral process. I had great faith in the stability and resilience of the constitutional republic that the founders created.
When the Iraq War was debated and then commenced, I was not a writer. I was not a journalist. I was not politically engaged or active. I never played any role in political debates or controversies. Unlike the countless beloved Democrats who actually did support the war - including Obama's Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton - I had no platform or role in politics of any kind.

I never once wrote in favor of the Iraq War or argued for it in any way, shape or form. Ask anyone who claims that I "supported" the Iraq War to point to a single instance where I ever supported or defended it in any way. There is no such instance. It's a pure fabrication.

At the time, I was basically a standard passive consumer of political news: I read The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Atlantic: the journals that I thought high-end consumers of news would read and which I assumed were generally reliable for getting the basic truth.What I explained in the Preface was that I had major objections to the Iraq war when it was being debated:

During the lead-up to the invasion, I was concerned that the hell-bent focus on invading Iraq was being driven by agendas and strategic objectives that had nothing to do with terrorism or the 9/11 attacks. The overt rationale for the invasion was exceedingly weak, particularly given that it would lead to an open-ended, incalculably costly, and intensely risky preemptive war. Around the same time, it was revealed that an invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein had been high on the agenda of various senior administration officials long before September 11.

Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in support of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that Saddam posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being done ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.&quot .

Like many people, I became radicalized by those early years of the Bush administration. The Preface recounts that it was the 2002 due-process-free imprisonment of US citizen Jose Padilla and the 2003 Iraq War that caused me to realize the full extent of the government's radicalism and the media's malfeasance: "I developed, for the first time in my life, a sense of urgency about the need to take a stand for our country and its defining principles."

As I recount in the Preface, I stopped practicing law and pursued political writing precisely because those people who had an obligation to act as adversarial checks on the Bush administration during the start of the war on civil liberties and the run-up to the Iraq War - namely, Congress, courts, and the media - were profoundly failing to fulfill that obligation.

I wasn't a journalist or government official during these radical power abuses and the run-up to the Iraq War, and wasn't working in a profession supposedly devoted to serving as watchdog over government claims and abuses. I relied on those people to learn what was going on and to prevent extremism. But I quickly concluded that those who held those positions in politics and journalism were failing in their duties. Read the last six paragraphs of the Preface: I started writing about politics to bring light to these issues and to try to contribute to a real adversarial force against the Bush administration and its blind followers.

It is true that, like 90% of Americans, I did support the war in Afghanistan and, living in New York, believed the rhetoric about the threat of Islamic extremism: those were obvious mistakes. It's also true that one can legitimately criticize me for not having actively opposed the Iraq War at a time when many people were doing so. Martin Luther King, in his 1967 speech explaining why his activism against the Vietnam War was indispensable to his civil rights work, acknowledged that he had been too slow to pay attention to or oppose the war and that he thus felt obligated to work with particular vigor against it once he realized the need ("Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam&quot .

I've often spoken about the prime benefit of writing about political matters full-time: namely, it enables you to examine first-hand sources and not have to rely upon media or political mediators when forming beliefs. That process has been and continues to be very eye-opening for me.

Like most people who do not work on politics or journalism full-time, I had to rely back then on standard political and media venues to form my political impressions of the world. When I first began writing about politics, I had a whole slew of conventional political beliefs that came from lazy ingestion of the false and misleading claims of these conventional political and media sources. Having the time to examine political realities first-hand has led me to realize how many of those former beliefs I held were based on myth or worse, and I've radically changed how I think about a whole slew of issues as a result of that re-examination.

The purpose of the Preface was to publicly explain that evolution. Indeed, the first sentence of this Preface was this quote from Abraham Lincoln: "I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday." When I still trusted and relied upon the claims of the political and media class - when I was basically apolitical and passive - I tacitly accepted all sorts of views which I've come to see are warped and misleading. I've talked often about this process and am proud of this evolution. I have zero interest in hiding it or concealing it. Quite the contrary: I want readers to know about it. That's why I wrote the Preface.

But anyone using this Preface to claim I was a "supporter" of the Iraq War is simply fabricating. At worst, I was guilty of apathy and passivity. I did nothing for or against it because I assumed that those in positions to exercise adversarial scrutiny - in journalism and politics - were doing that. It's precisely my realization of how profoundly deceitful and failed are American political and media institutions that motivated me to begin working on politics, and it's those realizations which continue to motivate me now.
No right is beyond limits. I can't slander Glen, despite free speech. Terrorists shouldn't get guns. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #1
How about suspected terrorists? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #3
How often will someone NEED that gun before they can prove their innocence? CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #19
Exactly. Justice Jun 2016 #26
I'm not okay with the burden being on the individual discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #33
How does a person on that list "prove their innocence"? anoNY42 Jun 2016 #51
Just read today that someone got off after an eight-year appeal scscholar Jun 2016 #76
I can't tell anoNY42 Jun 2016 #86
Obviously, we're fine with it since we're fighting for that right no in congress! (ntxt) scscholar Jun 2016 #91
Passing a law to limit sales to folks on the watch list anoNY42 Jun 2016 #92
" ... prove their innocence?" dumbcat Jun 2016 #57
"Proving ones innocence" is found where in American jurisprudence? Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #125
I never thought I would argue this side but no Florencenj2point0 Jul 2016 #133
Many feel the same way discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #138
Thanks, CrowCityDem. elleng Jun 2016 #31
You can slander or defame Glen all you want, and you won't be charged with a crime. Captain Stern Jun 2016 #62
I've yet to see a gun nut that didn't change their The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #2
IME, the opposite is true... jack_krass Jun 2016 #42
where did that happen? maxsolomon Jun 2016 #82
Yes, I would like to hear of this mythical place where guns are "strictly controlled." Orrex Jun 2016 #90
still waiting to hear about your experience maxsolomon Jun 2016 #103
Sorry, casual, but I have seen people arm up when "affected by gun violence." Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #126
amazing how this became a due process issue when guns got involved nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #4
Isn't it a due process issue? hack89 Jun 2016 #6
the point was the due process concern existed when this geek tragedy Jun 2016 #7
Not sure that getting on a airplane is a civil right. hack89 Jun 2016 #9
the right to travel is considered a constitutional right nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #11
Yes....but use of airports, drivers licences are considered privileges. nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #13
The right to travel doesn't mean the right to get on a private plane. n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #40
with respect to international travel, the courts have ruled that it does JustinL Jun 2016 #44
Umm, no. Read your own excerpt, dear. n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #46
Um, read post 54. Is that clear enough for you? n/t JustinL Jun 2016 #55
Perhaps you should read it yourself. n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #84
It isn't. The right to travel is a fundamental right. But using airports is a privilege. nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #12
with respect to international air travel, your position has been rejected by the courts JustinL Jun 2016 #43
Thanks.....but what you cite actually proves my point. Google Law School is generally msanthrope Jun 2016 #45
You should tell that to the Court. They continued to reject your point in a later ruling. JustinL Jun 2016 #54
Yes....It's interesting how you think a single decision in the 9th circuit confers a fundamental msanthrope Jun 2016 #58
The Ninth Court didn't "confer" a right. It recognized a restriction of a constitutional liberty. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #128
Thank you for agreeing with me. nt msanthrope Jul 2016 #142
People complained about that too. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #14
Maybe you didn't notice before now. Scootaloo Jun 2016 #78
It was a due process issue ten years ago... arendt Jun 2016 #16
Been an issue since the Bush years. Just thought we'd be rid of these lists by now. NutmegYankee Jun 2016 #25
But... but, GUNZ! Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #130
Opposed "no-fly," oppose "no buy," then and now... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #127
Greenwald calls it a war on due process but if anybody ever MattP Jun 2016 #5
Everybody knows his game by now... Blue_Tires Jun 2016 #8
+1 JoePhilly Jun 2016 #94
^^^AMEN to this!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #116
This would mean his White Supramacist civil clients would not be able to buy guns. msanthrope Jun 2016 #10
When Ted Kennedy couldn't fly cuz Watchlist, we all hated it... arendt Jun 2016 #15
^^^This. Kang Colby Jun 2016 #17
We all hated the watchlist until 1/20/2009 n/t arcane1 Jun 2016 #27
Clever generalization, sir. n/t arendt Jun 2016 #28
Funny how that goes. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #34
Inaccurate and unsupported generalizations are often funny. LanternWaste Jun 2016 #60
That's the problem with it treestar Jun 2016 #88
This is true..nt G_j Jun 2016 #99
THIS^^^^^^^+1 AntiBank Jul 2016 #111
He's correct. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2016 #18
They are trying to legitimize the no-fly list. Guns are the excuse. n/t arendt Jun 2016 #22
^^^This^^^ Gormy Cuss Jun 2016 #87
The Feds already have: the 4th Amendment the Feds took away our rights without due process MagickMuffin Jun 2016 #98
Yep. One prohibition (the WOD) got the 4th; the other attempt (on GUNZ!) goes after the 5th. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #131
Lynch refuses to say even how many Americans are on the terror watch list cali Jun 2016 #20
Not even Ted Kennedy-- the no fly list included the name, "T. Kennedy" X_Digger Jun 2016 #41
"Maybe the Libertarians can get two percent of the vote this year!" struggle4progress Jun 2016 #21
Dream big! zappaman Jun 2016 #72
I think most Democrats would prefer stricter gun control for everyone.The terror watch list femmedem Jun 2016 #23
how about a process to *get off* the watch list? 0rganism Jun 2016 #24
I wouldn't expect anything less from the man who supported President Bush when he signed the Patriot still_one Jun 2016 #29
Don't like GG's criticism? Quit giving him reason to criticize. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #30
He needs no reasons other than his gigantic ego and tiny mind. nt arely staircase Jun 2016 #32
His hair is unkempt also. How childish. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #35
I never said a word about his.appearance. nt arely staircase Jun 2016 #38
LOL. You don't get it. You are attacking him personally and not what he says or what he rhett o rick Jun 2016 #39
You need a dictionary. arely staircase Jul 2016 #110
What do you fear from those that want the truth? Will they rock your comfy bubble rhett o rick Jul 2016 #114
--Asshat who lives in Brazil. NuclearDem Jun 2016 #36
Many same sex couples had to live outside the US because the US did not give LGBT any rights Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #70
Greenwald is right as usual. DesMoinesDem Jun 2016 #37
Bernie Sanders vs. Greenwald re Citizens United? TomCADem Jun 2016 #61
Greenwald is an asshole. He's always been an asshole. baldguy Jun 2016 #47
Once we get this passed we can change the definition of terrorist to suit us. ileus Jun 2016 #48
We all hated the watch list when Dim Son was president. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #49
Yep, the new normal Hydra Jun 2016 #50
We wanted gun control when he was president oberliner Jun 2016 #52
So by any means necessary then? NickB79 Jun 2016 #75
No oberliner Jun 2016 #80
I don't object to the watch list.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #53
I didn't hate the watch list...believe it is needed for some sick fucks out there snooper2 Jun 2016 #74
Did we? treestar Jun 2016 #89
The problem is that it is easily turned into a way for the government to persecute... Odin2005 Jun 2016 #100
greenwald sucks for not being able to read the first part of the second amendment. La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #56
Maybe he's right, maybe not Bradical79 Jun 2016 #59
I think Glenn right. That just illustrates the insanity of the 2nd Amendment and why it needs to go RAFisher Jun 2016 #63
Why is this idiot always against Democrats.. even to the point of siding with Republcans?? DCBob Jun 2016 #64
He was a big George W. Bush cheerleader. Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #66
Then why is he seen as such a hero by many on this board? DCBob Jun 2016 #67
Bullshit. But you knew that already. AntiBank Jul 2016 #112
Mark it on your calendars: I disagree with Glenn Greenwald about something. nt Electric Monk Jun 2016 #65
Why do we have to mark it on our calendars? Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #68
To Protect Hillary Clinton, Democrats Wage War on Their Own Core Citizens United Argument Electric Monk Jun 2016 #69
Greenwald Trying to Deflect Again TomCADem Jun 2016 #71
To Protect Hillary Clinton, Democrats Wage War on Their Own Core Citizens United Argument Electric Monk Jun 2016 #73
Wow! Bernie is Actually Protecting Hillary! TomCADem Jun 2016 #83
Greenwald thinks he's 'cool' by taking contrary positions on almost everything. randome Jun 2016 #77
Contrary to who? You? Someone always has a contrary position. DesMoinesDem Jun 2016 #81
As in contrarian. One who takes provocative posititions arely staircase Jul 2016 #144
The ACLU is a bunch of trolls! DesMoinesDem Jul 2016 #148
libertarian nut laureate - I am so stealing that! Rex Jun 2016 #79
+1 JoePhilly Jun 2016 #95
Much as I loathe and despise Greenwald, on this specific point he's not wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #85
well, since the only purpose of an assault weapon is for the killing of people renate Jun 2016 #93
And Glenn Greenwald issues another Manichean screed. MineralMan Jun 2016 #96
So imagine this scenario - Vinca Jun 2016 #97
That senerio shows more about your ignorance of the current laws oneshooter Jun 2016 #104
A person calling me ignorant should check their spelling and punctuation. Vinca Jun 2016 #105
So you do not deny that what was said is true. oneshooter Jun 2016 #108
It would be nice if you would elaborate. Vinca Jun 2016 #109
These "young arab men" are not legal residents nor are they citizens of the US. oneshooter Jul 2016 #117
Well, I hope you have the opportunity to fly with them. Vinca Jul 2016 #120
????? oneshooter Jul 2016 #122
The point of the thread is "no fly, no buy." Vinca Jul 2016 #123
Then run away. n/t oneshooter Jul 2016 #136
To quote you: ??????????????????????. Vinca Jul 2016 #140
The picture you paint is silly, like a caricature jack_krass Jun 2016 #107
I know a couple people on the watch list. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #101
who? stonecutter357 Jun 2016 #102
I Agree with Glen. The establishment wants a "quick fix" so they can pat themselves on the back jack_krass Jun 2016 #106
nothing like a little Greenwald to get the authoritarians buzzing. AntiBank Jul 2016 #113
I would agree if guns weren't weapons and being denied guns was a burden. It's not. kcr Jul 2016 #115
So you would not mind it if your name is on the list? n/t oneshooter Jul 2016 #118
Of course I would mind if my name was on the list. kcr Jul 2016 #119
And a eight year process to be removed from the list, and the funds needed to do so. oneshooter Jul 2016 #121
Why would you ask that? Are you assuming they would be? kcr Jul 2016 #124
You keep going back to guns. I am speaking of loosing the right to board an airplane, possably oneshooter Jul 2016 #135
No one said you had to reply to my post in the first place n/t kcr Jul 2016 #139
OK then, be rude THEN run away. n/t oneshooter Jul 2016 #141
Remember when liberals were against the government declaring people terrorists with no due process? portlander23 Jul 2016 #129
Hats off to the DUers here who support gun-control, but do not support the Terrah Watch List. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #132
What the hell were these 10 people doing on the terrorist watch list? portlander23 Jul 2016 #134
Not getting on an airplane? n/t oneshooter Jul 2016 #137
Fuck that rat fucking libertarian fool. bettyellen Jul 2016 #143
I disagree profoundly. He is a vital force that uplifts the country. AntiBank Jul 2016 #145
Brazil? nt arely staircase Jul 2016 #147
The lists are badly flawed and arbitrary bluestateguy Jul 2016 #146
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Greenwald: People on watc...»Reply #112