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calimary

(82,699 posts)
31. Actually, I did have a problem with her vote. I supported Barack Obama in 2008
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:25 PM
Jul 2016

much as I was as big a fan of Hillary's back then as I am now. That vote was the ONLY thing that separated them in my mind, and the ONLY thing that pushed me into the Obama column.

But since then, I have heard her explain why. And I can fully understand, accept, and sympathize with her reasoning - why she trusted dubya on this. She was misled, FOR SURE, on the Iraq War vote. But she gave him the benefit of the doubt based on previous personal experience, and it sounded completely valid to me.

Here's what she explained:
After 9/11, she, as a Senator representing New York (coincidence! That's where 9/11 hit!) went to the White House for funding for the first responders OF 9/11 - that they get the health care and all the assistance they needed, fully-funded, no questions asked.
Guess what happened? dubya was pResident at the time she made her request for that additional funding for the 9/11 responders.
He promised her personally that she'd get that funding.
Guess what happened after that? That same george w. bush, the asshole squatter in Al Gore's White House and future war criminal (whom we all despise for multiple good reasons, myself VERY much included) made good on his promise. She GOT that additional funding that she'd asked for, for this key group of her constituents and fellow New Yorkers. And right away, too, as she recalled.
She then concluded he had passed some sort of test - that if he said something, she could count on it - and in this case almost literally take it to the bank. Frankly, knowing how I personally feel about that bastard, I was surprised to hear this. I'd never heard it before. He kept his promise? He was true to his word and backed it up and delivered on it as he said? SERIOUSLY??? That doesn't sound like the dry-drunk I know. But that's what he did.
Hillary then explained that, based on this template, this experience she'd just had with him, she therefore had no reason NOT to believe him on other things. After all, he sure came through for her on this matter. Surprising, I know.
So when he presented his case for the Iraq War vote, she took him at his word, and gave him the benefit of the doubt.

She, and the rest of us, couldn't foresee that he would use that vote in bad faith, to go ahead with his already pre-decided plans to go straight to war.

All she had was first-hand experience where she asked for something and trusted him, and he came through for her.

Under THOSE circumstances, I would have to give HER the benefit of the doubt. She trusted him based on direct past personal experience of him having proven to be worthy of that trust. How could she know he'd do an about-face and pull a fast one - on her and on everyone else? WE certainly didn't trust him but then again, don't forget, WE'RE partisans. We're wired not to trust him. She had to work with him and he'd passed the test with her.

So, my friend, I have to accept that. I STILL disagree with her vote. I HAD, in the past, felt that she should have known enough not to trust him, and vote against it. But I have since learned that she DID know - enough, anyway, to give him the benefit of the doubt after that. I'm sure when it all started to shake out, she probably felt betrayed - that this wasn't the same seemingly sympathetic and even-handed dude she'd asked for - AND QUICKLY RECEIVED - funding assistance for her state's 9/11 first responders.

Knowing that context, if I were her, I might actually have done something similar.

I feel differently about her Iraq War vote now, having learned the context in which she decided to vote the way she did, and to trust that he'd do the right thing, considering those details of her direct experience with him, surrounding and leading up to it. When I learned what went into it, and WHY she voted the way she did, I changed my mind about it.

This is not news to most. peace13 Jul 2016 #1
+1,000 malaise Jul 2016 #3
What? Can't hear you! chapdrum Jul 2016 #50
I remember about six years ago watching Rachel Maddow, when Akamai Jul 2016 #54
Are we really supposed to believe that governments, media corps, etc., Frank Cannon Jul 2016 #5
+1,000 malaise Jul 2016 #11
the truth is heaven05 Jul 2016 #34
Gee, they ban you here if the important folk deem anything "consiracy theory" n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #36
Blair was Bush/Cheney's poodle Martin Eden Jul 2016 #2
But there's no discussion in the US malaise Jul 2016 #4
Exactly Martin Eden Jul 2016 #12
The US is behaving like an empire malaise Jul 2016 #13
I don't know what we can do yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #18
way more important for Repugs to investigate the investigations NoMoreRepugs Jul 2016 #28
Bush and Cheney had a kennel of poodles beating the drums for their war. All deserve our contempt. Scuba Jul 2016 #15
I hope none of them were Democrats Martin Eden Jul 2016 #24
Resistance if future and the past does not matter. Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #37
Not in my morning paper at all. Octafish Jul 2016 #6
Of course not malaise Jul 2016 #10
My mistake! Freep buried story at bottom of ''U.S./World'' column on page 2 of print edition... Octafish Jul 2016 #16
Folks are only just now finding this out? Blue_Tires Jul 2016 #7
Of course the Iraq war was a crime. joshdawg Jul 2016 #8
Along with everyone who enabled them n/t arcane1 Jul 2016 #27
Are there enough prisons? We could cast a wide net and create a ruckus here for doing so. n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #38
K&R... spanone Jul 2016 #9
935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on Botany Jul 2016 #14
935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on AlbertCat Jul 2016 #17
But OMG let's make sure we draw and quarter Hillary for some stupid emails... calimary Jul 2016 #19
+1,000! maddiemom Jul 2016 #23
What justice could we have reached if THIS level of inquisition had been applied to kkkarl rove, calimary Jul 2016 #25
Hillary Schmillary AlbertCat Jul 2016 #26
Actually, I did have a problem with her vote. I supported Barack Obama in 2008 calimary Jul 2016 #31
If I had been her I still would have voted against. chknltl Jul 2016 #46
So the emails can be played into a useful distraction by those with different agendas? n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #39
"How could anyone have voted to let such a obvious scam proceed?" Botany Jul 2016 #22
How?? $$$. They were paid; they profited. lastlib Jul 2016 #52
The word is obfuscation malaise Jul 2016 #20
Lying About WMD's Was A Crime - Will Never Be Prosecuted Yallow Jul 2016 #21
You're right malaise Jul 2016 #30
I think that "looking for a pretext for war" is evil. Electric Monk Jul 2016 #29
You see shadowmayor Jul 2016 #32
You know what's tragic about this? matt819 Jul 2016 #33
Been thinking about the two SAS captured in Basra and how the mask slipped suffragette Jul 2016 #35
BBC kept changing the story. OnyxCollie Jul 2016 #41
Yep. DU is a great source for that history, since people here posted the evolving suffragette Jul 2016 #45
Nothing will convince me that it wasn't men like these who blew up that malaise Jul 2016 #51
The Iraq War paved the way for the humanitarian tragedy that is present in that region today IgelJames4 Jul 2016 #40
The Democratic Party Honor Roll: bvar22 Jul 2016 #42
The remaining cowards pretended "Oh, that clever Bush fooled me with his guile!" arcane1 Jul 2016 #43
+155 Martin Eden Jul 2016 #53
I believe this story has been stored since 2003 in the file marked "N S, S." WinkyDink Jul 2016 #44
Yup. The one person I would vote for in an instant sangfroid Jul 2016 #47
The bush cartel The Wizard Jul 2016 #48
There are still Republicans in office today who claim Iraq was behind 9/11. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2016 #49
Now we are on the verge of Invading Libya and Syria, and who's cheering that on? Ford_Prefect Jul 2016 #55
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