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benEzra

(12,148 posts)
124. "Semantics" is the study of the meanings of words.
Thu Jul 14, 2016, 07:29 AM
Jul 2016

Definitions matter.

If the anti-abortion lobby introduces a bill to ban "late term abortions" and defines a late-term abortion as anything after 10 weeks' gestation, then pointing out the bait-and-switch does indeed deal in semantics. It is also true.

The gun control lobby isn't trying to ban 31-round magazines; they are trying to ban 11-round magazines, or even 8-round magazines (e.g. the NY SAFE Act as passed). Unfortunately for that approach, the very first Winchesters ever made (since 1866) had 15-round magazines, as did their predecessor, the Henry carbine of 1860-1861. That's why the compliance rate with New York's magazine and rifle-handgrip ban is estimated at 5%, and the compliance rate with Sunnyvale's magazine ban was zero; it's like setting the national speed limit on the Interstates to 35 mph.

A couple of years ago, I guesstimated the number of over-10-round magazines in U.S. homes at around a third of a billion, owned by around 50 million people. I don't know how many are sold a year, but it is probably in the many tens of millions, so that number may be half a billion now. You'd likely double that number if you want a 7-round limit. That would make the "war on magazines" much bigger than the "war on drugs".

As to the "saving lives" aspect, the head of Americans for Gun Safety a couple years ago stated that the most dangerous bullets in a magazine are the first 10, not numbers 11 and up. Rifles are used in only ~270 murders/year out of ~12,000; of those, magazine capacity is almost always irrelevant for offensive use if the shooter plans their tactics around reloads; the rate of aimed fire between a 10- or 15-round magazine and a 30-round magazine is not that different. Capacity matters a lot more for defensive use than offensive.

The semantics of gun control... [View all] Photographer Jul 2016 OP
Great TeddyR Jul 2016 #1
That I believe is the key Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #2
What do you do with the billions in circulation? Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #6
Fast reply and the expected question. Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #10
It will never fly, however sensible it is. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2016 #12
Not thousands but hundreds of millions Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #20
I do not believe it impossible to accomplish Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #61
Not as difficult as you think. Jerry442 Jul 2016 #78
But more difficult than YOU think... Straw Man Jul 2016 #102
The point is not to achieve sterility, which no one believes possible. Jerry442 Jul 2016 #108
Yet only sterility achieves the goal ... Straw Man Jul 2016 #115
Oh, by the way, did I mention my law... Jerry442 Jul 2016 #119
More authoritarian daydreams. Straw Man Jul 2016 #120
Yes. NT Jerry442 Jul 2016 #122
Moral compass ... MH1 Jul 2016 #145
So ... Straw Man Jul 2016 #156
But I'd have to ask - "so then we do NOTHING?" calimary Jul 2016 #141
Look at the bright side... Jerry442 Jul 2016 #148
I think there is plenty that can be done...when in most cities, less then 1% of the people jmg257 Jul 2016 #152
Exactly. You mean there's NOTHING we can do? I can't buy that for a nanosecond. calimary Jul 2016 #154
Hear hear - Cheers! jmg257 Jul 2016 #155
I agree, way too hard to accomplish. Calista241 Jul 2016 #92
Not in 50 years; maybe 500 years, if not stored carefully. benEzra Jul 2016 #123
How do you plan on compensating the owners? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #15
Dang that pesky 'takings' clause! n/t X_Digger Jul 2016 #33
Personally I wouldn't, however Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #60
Private citizens were still free to sell cars amongst themselves. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #69
and.... Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #72
If people are allowed to engage in private commerce they will. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #90
Yes Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #91
It's not opinion. It's observed fact and you can't just wish it away. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #98
Yes, they are going to do so Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #101
"When those are detected by law enforcement they generally have some repercussions." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #106
So now at least 40,000,000 refuse to comply. They are all heavily armed and you have instantly made MohRokTah Jul 2016 #51
No, Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #64
Some may comply. I don't believe most will. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #66
Your opinion Sherman A1 Jul 2016 #71
If the experiences of CO, NY and VT (hardly rock-ribbed conservative bastions, they) serve as Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #70
They can be 3D printed now Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #4
"now is just a matter of getting that used 3D printer on Craigslist and downloading a program." lol. morningfog Jul 2016 #57
No - the means have been around for a while now... SeattleVet Jul 2016 #82
Look around, it's already being done Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #105
False. Kang Colby Jul 2016 #87
And when you espouse your opinions from a place of ignorance on the subject Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #3
And when you refuse to acknowledge or even recognize the problem baldguy Jul 2016 #7
The problem is a very small number of individuals who are determined to act. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #9
The problem is too many guns. baldguy Jul 2016 #11
Were there too many guns in France when the Charlie Hebdo office was attacked? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #13
Refusing to acknowledge the problem - and slipping in a few RW talking points. baldguy Jul 2016 #18
How do you hope to effectively deal with anything, let alone something as profound as gun Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #23
Didn't you hear? If you label something an NRA talking point Calista241 Jul 2016 #93
They get angry when their initiatives fail but their initiatives fail Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #99
The problem was accurately acknowledged. beevul Jul 2016 #38
Over 8000 gun deaths in the US in just one year. Exilednight Jul 2016 #125
In a nation of 300+ million... beevul Jul 2016 #126
It's the ease of access to guns that is the biggest Exilednight Jul 2016 #129
Again, thats an opinion, not supported by ALL the facts. beevul Jul 2016 #131
yet America has the softest gun laws of Exilednight Jul 2016 #134
Threefold - the sheer number of people in the US who don't mind killing other people... jmg257 Jul 2016 #127
I'm sure other countries have just as many loons, the difference Exilednight Jul 2016 #128
What about all the places with the ease of acccess and little to no gun violence? beevul Jul 2016 #132
Every country and post industrial country in the Exilednight Jul 2016 #133
That doesn't negate the high gun ownership states in America... beevul Jul 2016 #138
At least one too many guns in each case sanatanadharma Jul 2016 #30
This can be addressed without trampling the rights of others. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #36
Yup. I likes to shoot things and killum dead. That's my right like it done said in that Photographer Jul 2016 #140
That's that same constitution thingy what lets you post banal non-answers. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #143
Ha ha - sorry - just funny that someone who ignores linguistics and logic jmg257 Jul 2016 #146
Are you suggesting the poster you responded to talks like this? Marengo Jul 2016 #147
Out of 80-100 million Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #41
More toddlers are killed by toppling televisions onto themselves each year. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #44
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #135
Can you come up with an argument that is not a personal attack? MohRokTah Jul 2016 #136
And another reason is people crafting the proposed laws are clueless about what they try to regulate Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #14
LOL,@ "allowed". beevul Jul 2016 #37
I used to sell them back in the 80's and was a sport shooter since before you were born Photographer Jul 2016 #39
A subjective definition of 'scary' is not enough to establish law or policy... TipTok Jul 2016 #5
At some point, semantics have to matter. Captain Stern Jul 2016 #8
And when gun manufacturers start selling 29 round magazines Calista241 Jul 2016 #94
I understand what you're saying. Captain Stern Jul 2016 #95
I'm now seeing the same tactic used regarding healthcare. "Those nurses don't know the difference .. Scuba Jul 2016 #16
It appears semantics do matter because you are learning aikoaiko Jul 2016 #17
"Ignorance is strength" Taitertots Jul 2016 #19
Way simple then - ban ammunition reserve holders* with a capacity of 30+ rounds. jmg257 Jul 2016 #21
"Magazines" is the term you want. Straw Man Jul 2016 #104
Sure - 30 round mags are quite copious. jmg257 Jul 2016 #107
Of course semantics matter Matrosov Jul 2016 #22
It's really pretty simple,you put a lock down on any gun that can be used Photographer Jul 2016 #24
That isn't so clear...now you need to define "lots" & "short amount of time". jmg257 Jul 2016 #27
Australia again ? DustyJoe Jul 2016 #62
lol at "go the Australian route" AntiBank Jul 2016 #103
Because when it's time to actually form a real opinion Igel Jul 2016 #25
A BIG K&R. Gunners playing the nomenclature game is just obfuscation. Hoyt Jul 2016 #26
Legislators without understanding of specifics write pointless law. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #46
Bull. Just ban semi-autos, or write the basics of legislation and let a gun nut with integrity Hoyt Jul 2016 #47
semi-automatic weapons are the most popular and numerous type of firearm in this country. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #50
Who cares what lethal weapons are the most popular. Slavery was popular, smoking was popular, etc., Hoyt Jul 2016 #53
Slavery was only ended by a bloody war. I don't imagine you'll be joining a 'war on guns'... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #54
A "bloody war" worth the sacrifice of the victors, don't you think? Hoyt Jul 2016 #55
So you would actually advocate going to civil war over guns???? MohRokTah Jul 2016 #56
Not sure you are correct, but we can start with banning future production and restricting how many Hoyt Jul 2016 #58
Not going to happen MohRokTah Jul 2016 #59
We are about to get a Supreme Court that doesn't agree with you on guns. Hoyt Jul 2016 #63
Do you think the Stevens Dissent in Heller will become the interpretation of the 2nd? jmg257 Jul 2016 #68
Actually, the legislation says people under 45. I'd like to see all the old white wingers have to Hoyt Jul 2016 #73
Pistols and rifle are both viable weapons of the militias, which I have no problem relating jmg257 Jul 2016 #75
If you want to go by a point at each word interpretation of Constitution, you gotta do it with Code. Hoyt Jul 2016 #79
They may indeed...but I don't get too worried or all worked up over it - I have lots of hobbies! jmg257 Jul 2016 #83
Not really, states will get tough on guns and Supreme Court will uphold those laws. Hoyt Jul 2016 #84
As I'm sure you are aware, that has already begun, but not all states are NY, CT or CA. jmg257 Jul 2016 #85
Ban the most commonly class of firearm sold in the world in direct violation of the Heller ruling? Statistical Jul 2016 #74
I think you need to reread Heller, as well as Stevens' Dissent. Hoyt Jul 2016 #80
You also need to look closer at Austrailia and UK laws. Actually, getting guns out of the hands of Hoyt Jul 2016 #81
Sorry; a nation of laws needs to pay attention to semantics. Brickbat Jul 2016 #28
Two semantic sides in the public safety debate": technical and moral sanatanadharma Jul 2016 #29
And your argument just left out a key specific about this issue and it is both moral and technical. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #48
Here's why semantics matter citood Jul 2016 #31
Over 1/3 of all firearms in this nation are semi-automatic. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #49
I'm a gun control advocate who knows plenty about guns. Paladin Jul 2016 #32
"You see it every day here at DU---and it needs to stop." Ask the Admins. awaits your request: friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #43
You can't ban your way outta guns, and you damn well can't ban free speech. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #45
Naw. Eko Jul 2016 #52
You can't ban your way out of guns HERE. DU can indeed ban free speech. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #130
Why cant we? Eko Jul 2016 #137
There isn't enough of you... beevul Jul 2016 #139
Ya, Eko Jul 2016 #142
Did I mistake you for someone who uses the terms ammosexual and gun humper? beevul Jul 2016 #153
Dont believe I have ever used those words. I tend to not use deragatory words instead of logic. Eko Jul 2016 #159
Fair enough. beevul Jul 2016 #160
You are welcome to try and change the Constitution, and then pile on the restrictions. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #149
Opinions are wonderful to form, but you need to be a bit more specific if you want to articulate, jmg257 Jul 2016 #65
This is an on-line talk site, not a Senate mark-up session. Paladin Jul 2016 #76
Gotcha - and understood. But there is often much discussion over Assault Weapon Bans, jmg257 Jul 2016 #77
Fair enough. (nt) Paladin Jul 2016 #86
I certainly understand your passion and your point bighart Jul 2016 #34
bingo Locrian Jul 2016 #35
Technical issues of semantics don't matter when you're ranting. Dr. Strange Jul 2016 #40
Actually there's very little doubt that the laws on crack cocaine... Jerry442 Jul 2016 #89
Come on Mendocino Jul 2016 #42
Cartridge limits are silly. An experienced operator can fire almost continuously, jack_krass Jul 2016 #67
Time and again, those "almost continuously" pauses are shown to save lives. Paladin Jul 2016 #110
How about some examples? hack89 Jul 2016 #111
I don't believe that, but hey if it makes you feel good, go ahead and ban the jack_krass Jul 2016 #113
Magazines can be "high capacity." Cartridges: not so much. Paladin Jul 2016 #114
Why does gun control lose every damned time? karadax Jul 2016 #88
Amazing to me yhst so many repies are from low post counts than even me. Photographer Jul 2016 #96
What's the implication ? karadax Jul 2016 #97
Take what you will from the question. Photographer Jul 2016 #100
Pro-gun advocates turn up in clusters at DU. Over and over again. Paladin Jul 2016 #112
Why the quotation marks around "good democrats"? Marengo Jul 2016 #117
I expect a typical insult Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #121
Pro-gun advocates turn up in clusters at everywhere. beevul Jul 2016 #118
I believe that poster is suggesting you are a troll. Marengo Jul 2016 #109
Fair enough. Nt. karadax Jul 2016 #116
"Semantics" is the study of the meanings of words. benEzra Jul 2016 #124
It should be as simple as the new GMO labeling act. JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2016 #144
All this talk of gun control is just making us buy more guns. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2016 #150
Might I recommend a Ruger 556. oneshooter Jul 2016 #157
Thank you. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2016 #158
Agreed. deathrind Jul 2016 #151
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