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the_sly_pig

(740 posts)
130. the equal and opposite should also be true...
Wed Aug 10, 2016, 03:39 AM
Aug 2016

I cant remember where I heard this concept. Should there be specific areas on college campuses called 'unsafe spaces'? I can't imagine a safe space for the same reason I can't imagine an unsafe space.

I believe there exists institutional bias based on race (and religion et al). Based on the original posting, the safe space is not designed to address institutional bias.

However, since individuals are able to control their feelings and perceptions, it would follow that safe spaces are impossible because other peoples feelings and perceptions cannot be controlled. Making a racial comment is an obvious example, but it is also possible that I could offend someone by asking if they like toast.

I don't oppose safe spaces, there is certainly no harm in trying, but in reality it would only take one person to ruin the attempt,

Ultimately, it is the individual that decides what is offensive. This is my opinion based on 50 years life experience.

tsp

Poor sensitive souls... TipTok Aug 2016 #1
Why isn't it enough that their ideas can be challenged everywhere ELSE? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #3
Never? TipTok Aug 2016 #5
The professor who did that apologized and resigned. That wasn't a "safe space" issue. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #12
So, the proper response to being surrounded by segregationists NuclearDem Aug 2016 #154
Except challenging ideas shuts down ideas counter to the rulers of the university... scscholar Aug 2016 #151
What? TipTok Aug 2016 #155
That first paragraph needs to be dissected. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #45
"Safe Spaces" are all about total control. ileus Aug 2016 #132
what objective evidence leads you to such a flawed conclusion? LanternWaste Aug 2016 #14
I calls 'em like I sees 'em TipTok Aug 2016 #23
You can gain that mental strength without being subjected to delegitimization. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #38
Self segregation is the ultimate in delegitimization. n/t lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #46
Not calling for self-segregation. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #117
I suspect your definition of persecution varies significantly from mine... TipTok Aug 2016 #49
It goes without saying that neither of us ever have or ever will experience persecution. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #109
Lol. You can't know that. Bonx Aug 2016 #161
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2016 #83
I calls 'em like I sees 'em MattBaggins Aug 2016 #59
You could avoid hearing it Bonx Aug 2016 #62
Are you suggesting that the ability to observe... TipTok Aug 2016 #108
That's not a very well thought-out argument considering -- Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #286
I agree. cwydro Aug 2016 #121
Perhaps a better sports analogy would be training camp petronius Aug 2016 #146
Same difference... TipTok Aug 2016 #156
Yes, as well as introspection, reflection, idea-sharing, encouragement, etc petronius Aug 2016 #158
Fair enough... TipTok Aug 2016 #190
Campus spaces are used by wide range of student groups for a wide range petronius Aug 2016 #200
5 year olds form "clubs" to keep people out cleveramerican Aug 2016 #234
Your safe space... Puha Ekapi Aug 2016 #153
every square inch of a college campus is supposed to fit your definition of a safe space. geek tragedy Aug 2016 #2
I pointed out that there aren't safe spaces outside college campuses. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #4
"some place where they don't have to be perpetually on guard" geek tragedy Aug 2016 #10
You shouldn't have to hide in your dorm room to feel safe. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #19
I don't talk to any college kids. geek tragedy Aug 2016 #20
No slurs. No hostility or delitimization An absolute guarantee of no violence. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #22
those are already the rules for college campuses. geek tragedy Aug 2016 #25
And women, POC, LGBTQ and Muslim student groups keep having to protest Ken Burch Aug 2016 #40
yes, that's what they do, instead of retreating into safe enclaves nt geek tragedy Aug 2016 #63
No one is calling for anyone to retreat. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #118
Of course they should life is a constant battle Egnever Aug 2016 #138
Are you aware that they can enroll at Safe Space University? snooper2 Aug 2016 #149
You lose your argument GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #86
Isn't that the way...? TipTok Aug 2016 #125
You should, then. Especially LGBTQ college kids. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #115
Oh within the last week cali Aug 2016 #31
I'd be interested in having a beer with your friend. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #36
And, if someone threatens to shoot every black person on said campus loyalsister Aug 2016 #119
no, of course not. geek tragedy Aug 2016 #120
That's exactly what happened on the MU campus. loyalsister Aug 2016 #122
I would say safe spaces could be interpreted as Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #197
I think Q addressed that Bok_Tukalo Aug 2016 #6
It's often much more than a bloody nose. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #13
There is nothing OK about punching someone in the face resulting in a bloody nose either in a Person 2713 Aug 2016 #58
Then press charges Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #178
Bloody nose stab to your back - you can take it and enjoy it right ? Person 2713 Aug 2016 #54
And Q is a bully and without his advantages he's a coward. LeftyMom Aug 2016 #110
I'm a white cis professional female lapucelle Aug 2016 #7
"The Coddling of the American Mind" trotsky Aug 2016 #8
Yes. cali Aug 2016 #33
^^ THIS ^^ nt. jonno99 Aug 2016 #43
That's a very good article, enjoyed reading it emulatorloo Aug 2016 #76
Good God. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #85
I'm indifferent to safe spaces. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #9
If college doesn't make you a little uncomfortable ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2016 #11
Safe spaces aren't for the priveliged-they're for the powerless, for the dispossessed. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #16
Who says someone from a small town, never exposed to gay people.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2016 #18
Not rich, but privileged in the sense that straight male people always have more power Ken Burch Aug 2016 #21
Yes even to delegitimization Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #177
If someone possesses the power to exclude, discriminate, segregate and deny physical passage to Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #257
Wow. The anger is palpable. And ugly. bettyellen Aug 2016 #262
Any perception of anger in my post is yours and yours alone. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #272
Having one bit of "power" in one area does not give you power others do not posess.... bettyellen Aug 2016 #274
Thank you for proving exactly why "safe spaces" is such a cancerous idea. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #276
You keep repeating yourself as if that suddenly makes you correct. Lol, nope. bettyellen Aug 2016 #278
That's almost as substantive an argument as "you're a racist." NuclearDem Aug 2016 #280
"Too uppity for you, amiright? We get it." Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #283
LBGT and POC have been sheltered from negativity all their lives? Are you fucking joking? bettyellen Aug 2016 #258
Are you talking to me? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2016 #261
Yep, you seem blissfully unaware as to why there is a need for safe spaces. bettyellen Aug 2016 #263
And you seem completely unaware.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2016 #270
I can see SMALL safe spaces. backscatter712 Aug 2016 #15
I'd forgotten about her... TipTok Aug 2016 #28
Is there no way to hold "a rational adult discussion"... Ken Burch Aug 2016 #34
Two things... TipTok Aug 2016 #44
Funny how no one wants to talk about equality anymore davidn3600 Aug 2016 #17
I want to talk about equality. We NEED equality. At the moment, we're nowhere near it. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #26
Equality means that they are as free to challenge me... TipTok Aug 2016 #32
What arguments do you feel you've been stopped from making? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #35
I certainly haven't because I was educated... TipTok Aug 2016 #47
You wonder why people call this "Generation Snowflake?" davidn3600 Aug 2016 #52
This kind of shit makes me embarrassed to be a Millennial. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #92
. Egnever Aug 2016 #140
Guess what GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #88
What exactly are you saying? nt clarice Aug 2016 #91
Probably that the open marketplace of ideas NuclearDem Aug 2016 #94
You would not think GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #97
This isn't an issue with liberals running the show. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #99
this clarice Aug 2016 #139
VERY well said.nt clarice Aug 2016 #137
I thought I was pretty clear GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #96
... NuclearDem Aug 2016 #89
Sound like you miss the "good old days" when people had less knowledge and understand of social bettyellen Aug 2016 #250
Political correctness run amok. nt clarice Aug 2016 #24
How do you run amok? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #29
LOL...hit it with a hammer.nt clarice Aug 2016 #230
Those who complain about PC just wish they can say "N*gger" in polite company. n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #163
Well that's certainly doubleplusungood. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #164
Ok, define it. I have yet to see it defined... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #166
Frankly, I think no matter what definition I provide NuclearDem Aug 2016 #170
You mean like all those men offended by an innocent comment by Rebecca Watson? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #176
Word. n/t. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #256
+1 Marr Aug 2016 #217
You figured me out. Throd Aug 2016 #165
Just an observation of those who complain the loudest about "Political Correctness"... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #167
Just because you're offended, it doesn't mean you're right. Throd Aug 2016 #173
What "trifling" matters? Can you give an example? n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #175
Black churches were traditionally thought of as a "safe space" for black Americans. That is until... Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #27
Very, very true. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #30
Those 4 little girls who died in the church in the south disagree big time with that. yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #55
Of course. But even after that tragedy, the black church continues to be an institution for Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #61
I hope they return to places they can pray in without worry. yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #69
Me, too most definitely! Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #70
An interesting range of responses. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #37
Thanks for that. You've described the situation more concisely and effectively than I did. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #41
I thought your description was very clear. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #57
On the "straight white male" privileges list anoNY42 Aug 2016 #131
That may have happened, but you weren't going to be drummed out of the service Ken Burch Aug 2016 #144
It was a civilian that did it, so there was no "reporting it" anoNY42 Aug 2016 #145
Which, again, means there was no power relationship involved. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #147
"But if you are a straight white male: anoNY42 Aug 2016 #150
A grope on a buttock is not the equivalent of being beaten up for marching in a parade. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #160
I agree anoNY42 Aug 2016 #193
Exceedingly rarely, then. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #207
Understood and agreed. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #159
Actually, whites are often stopped for travelling through the non-white neighborhoods Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #287
I'm sorry to say... tonedevil Aug 2016 #39
Thanks for pointing that out. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #42
Are you not a member of the dominant group deciding whether oppression has been dealt with? lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #51
All I've "decided" is that I'm NOT entitled to have the last word on the subject. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #111
Who is entitled to have the last word anyway? Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #181
Yep. And a lot of us black DUers have been trying, unsuccessfully, to point this out. Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #71
Unfortunately... tonedevil Aug 2016 #87
So what? Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #180
Your answer... tonedevil Aug 2016 #182
It is enough to be safe. It is an impossible goal to require that everyone feel safe. n/t lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #48
Ok so they have safe space for 4 years in college yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #50
Don't kid yourself about that GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #93
Is it the purpose of higher education to equip people to handle adversity? MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy Aug 2016 #192
Yep hate is now just a point of view one needs to be comfortable with for freedumb Person 2713 Aug 2016 #202
Except those "safe spaces" lead to authoritarian thought mythology Aug 2016 #53
Well said... TipTok Aug 2016 #56
Using your words: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #60
They become dogmatic as well, and brittle. Marr Aug 2016 #66
Any therapist worth their salt would know that the desire for a "safe space" is not Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2016 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author bluedye33139 Aug 2016 #77
Ugh this "authoritarian" bullshit again.... Seriously the resentment toward women and POC here since bettyellen Aug 2016 #251
Any post that has free speech in quotes.... TipTok Aug 2016 #253
Go bury your head in more Orwell. I'm sure no one has been going after your civil rights .... bettyellen Aug 2016 #260
Maybe you should just make a list of approved conversational topics... TipTok Aug 2016 #266
Libertarian paranoia. Lol. This is a private forum bettyellen Aug 2016 #268
Free speech isn't (or shouldn't be) only a libertarian ideal... TipTok Aug 2016 #269
It's not a right that is extended in many places and times- never was. bettyellen Aug 2016 #275
The USSR just wanted a safe space for the proletariat Seeking Serenity Aug 2016 #64
The Soviet leadership wanted a safe space for itself, not the proletariat. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #114
The concept is infantile. Marr Aug 2016 #65
There are no such thing as safe spaces in the real world ram2008 Aug 2016 #67
The idea is just really silly. No evil privelege involved. Throd Aug 2016 #68
A lot of the responses said my piece better than I could romanic Aug 2016 #72
"Safe spaces" were invented by very privileged white people. n/t Old Union Guy Aug 2016 #74
This message was self-deleted by its author bluedye33139 Aug 2016 #75
"Safe spaces" make no sense, no matter what color you are. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #78
Have you ever heard of verbal ABUSE? Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #199
And this person identifies as a teacher , so it is not just students who think verbal abuse is OK Person 2713 Aug 2016 #203
Someone once told me Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #205
Are you suggesting I am like this professor because I question the use of safe spaces at colleges? TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #213
No, I'm not. Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #215
Yet again you're making assumptions. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #218
What an offensive overgeneralization. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #212
Kids creating safe spaces on college campuses are not doing so because they are being abused. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #211
It really boils down to this Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #216
I agree. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #219
You can't know people's past experiences or personal issues Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #221
You're assumptions are arrogant. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #226
Let me come at this another way Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #227
That's a much better point to make. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #232
Ultimately, you're arguing against people's personal comfort Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #235
+1 Marr Aug 2016 #245
Are you a psychologist? Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #289
If we don't know someone's past experience or personal issues Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #288
Uhm, safe spaces were CREATED by LGBT and people of color as a means of protection... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #223
I'm gay and know the value of that space. TeacherB87 Aug 2016 #231
It isn't priviliged kids protecting themselves. THAT is a right-wing myth. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #242
The leader of the Mizzou protests where all this safe space nonsense started NuclearDem Aug 2016 #247
It depends what the "safe space" is. Oneironaut Aug 2016 #79
Seems okay, but... HassleCat Aug 2016 #80
"Safe spaces" exist for people who want to turn wider scrutiny of their ideas NuclearDem Aug 2016 #81
Spot on! Thank you! tritsofme Aug 2016 #95
Excellent essay nt MrScorpio Aug 2016 #82
Totally for safe spaces GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #84
Could be, cheapdate Aug 2016 #90
All the eye rolls melman Aug 2016 #98
because you learn to defend your opinion and position by being exposed to different ones. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #100
STOP IT WARREN NuclearDem Aug 2016 #101
If you were in your safe space... Dr. Strange Aug 2016 #102
try posting from an ipad Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #103
you want I should kick your stubby, long-winded, Ipad-ing ass, Warren Demontague? Skittles Aug 2016 #104
I only arm wrestle the ladies, these days Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #105
OMG Skittles Aug 2016 #106
Safe spaces are about respect, not ideological conformity. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #112
You did not address bullying or harassment Person 2713 Aug 2016 #208
I think it's important to distinguish bullying/harassment from someone having a different opinion Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #209
Some people equate hearing a different opinion as harassment. Throd Aug 2016 #228
College students are adults. Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #107
Most offices I've known discourage the simple free excange of ideas/argue with those you disagree Chathamization Aug 2016 #249
What is the difference between safe spaces and white flight? Renew Deal Aug 2016 #113
White flight is about defending the powerful and the privileged Ken Burch Aug 2016 #116
Defending them from what, the real world? romanic Aug 2016 #123
I agree bravenak Aug 2016 #124
What lesson(s) do you take from most of the responses received by this OP? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #126
Ohhh! I just see the same old same old. Nothing new in the responses bravenak Aug 2016 #129
The sneering indifference and condensation is embarrassing. bettyellen Aug 2016 #259
surprised at how some are behaiving bravenak Aug 2016 #281
btw, if anyone remembers what was in the auto-removed post(post #83) Ken Burch Aug 2016 #127
How are "safe spaces" operationalized? David__77 Aug 2016 #128
the equal and opposite should also be true... the_sly_pig Aug 2016 #130
So-called "safe spaces" are a ridiculous notion and the result of overprotective parents and schools Lee-Lee Aug 2016 #133
That's an interesting thought. Marr Aug 2016 #152
Can "safe spaces" be criticized without being "mocked" in your view? Orrex Aug 2016 #134
The amount of RW talking points in this thread is horrifying. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #135
Terrible ideas deserve to be mocked.... TipTok Aug 2016 #136
The whole concept? Really? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #183
That's what private property is for... TipTok Aug 2016 #191
I've been waiting for somebody to point this out. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #142
Oh please. romanic Aug 2016 #148
Most of DU? kcr Aug 2016 #188
Yes it does n/t gollygee Aug 2016 #240
I still say safe spaces are the internet coming to life The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #141
The internet is the OPPOSITE of a safe space. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #143
No filters? Of course there are filters. The person looking at the screeen being the biggest one. The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #171
We will fix that mwrguy Aug 2016 #252
I would suggest you look into apartments in Moscow or Beijing. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #254
Having a "safe space" IS a privilege Taitertots Aug 2016 #157
I always took safe spaces to be groups, clubs, and discussion forums.... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #162
"but, frankly, most of it is hyperbole from anti-PC "bigots" who hate diversity in general." NuclearDem Aug 2016 #168
I'm sorry, that's bullshit, what ideas are labeled as bigotry that aren't actually bigotry? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #169
Let's start with microaggressions. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #172
Oh my fucking god, really? Rebecca Watson makes a mild complaint about being... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #174
People went nuts over what Rebecca Watson said NuclearDem Aug 2016 #184
I'm frankly amazed at the level of tone-deafness you have just posted... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #185
"I was raised to NOT be an asshole. Is that really too much to ask?" NuclearDem Aug 2016 #186
The FIRST sentence out of that woman's mouth about micro-aggressions was differentiating... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #187
"using the question of "what" to ask about a person is dehumanizing" The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #194
If you are shitting on Rebbeca Watson I think you are on the wrong website. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #195
Exactly. n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #201
Rebecca Watson isn't an elected Democrat. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #206
What do you disagree with her on? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #210
"What are you?" tends to be mostly aimed at certain types of people. The same with "Where are you Chathamization Aug 2016 #255
It's one thing if it's just, say the LGBT student org office... backscatter712 Aug 2016 #198
I would agree that turning a campus into a "safe space" is a misuse of the term... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #204
Would you apply the same regimen if a progressive group wanted a progressive speaker to appear? Seeking Serenity Aug 2016 #220
It depends on whether they express beliefs that attack the existence of people's identities... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #222
Ok, here's one, not only from someone who was routinely asked to speak at colleges Seeking Serenity Aug 2016 #224
And I would apply the same standard as I would to a misogynist. Question is, does she still... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #225
It may be privilege Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #179
Wouldn't it be great if real life had a TOS / Jury system where one could alert on language R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2016 #189
Real life does have a jury system re: language. TwilightZone Aug 2016 #196
I can imagine the howls if I had demanded SAFE SPACE as a gal in the military in the 70's Skittles Aug 2016 #214
No one is saying anybody SHOULDN'T fight. I respect all who do. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #236
what kind of fantasy world do you live in? Skittles Aug 2016 #237
Of course they aren't different. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #241
"It's about having a few small places where you don't have to be on guard" romanic Aug 2016 #243
I listen to POC, LGBTQ people, women, Muslims, other groups subject to abuse and bigotry. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #244
And what do you do for them? romanic Aug 2016 #246
What about black folks that make fun of safe spaces, are they're displaying white privilege? ileus Aug 2016 #229
Safe from what? cleveramerican Aug 2016 #233
safe from the real world Skittles Aug 2016 #238
Safe from oppression gollygee Aug 2016 #239
Thanks for that. n/t. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #248
Thanks Ken. The most disturbing aspect of the primaries for me was to see bettyellen Aug 2016 #264
Social issues weren't actually peripheral to that candidate's interests. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #265
There were unfortunate quotes about them bettyellen Aug 2016 #267
I agree with all of that. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #271
Just saying I have seen some lingering resentment and I wonder if it figures into the hostility I bettyellen Aug 2016 #273
It may play something of a role, but I don't think it's a direct correlation. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #277
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #282
Sheesh...use names... TCJ70 Aug 2016 #284
I supported Bernie. My point in not using names was to avoid "refighting the primaries". Ken Burch Aug 2016 #294
So called "safe spaces" are used to censor opposing views. beevul Aug 2016 #279
"free of verbal abuse, free of slurs, free of the fear of violence" Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #285
"Finally, we must ask what enforcement would look like." NuclearDem Aug 2016 #290
You keep linking to conservative websites to prop up your positions.... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #291
Are you disputing whether or not the assaults occurred or are you just upset someone else noticed? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #293
Your concern seems to be over the source reporting an assault NuclearDem Aug 2016 #295
No. Just no. What those people are doing is not Progressivism. It isn't acceptable. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #292
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