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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
14. I don't think the dehumanization argument is that mysterious.
Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:20 PM
Jun 2012

Full disclosure: Straight, have seen enough porn to know what it is, and that it doesn't appeal to me.

I scan this issue when it pops up from time to time, and it seems like people are continually talking past each other.

Most of the objection (to the objections to porn) seems to come from a free speech / you can't ban that point of view. That's deliberately obtuse. It's not a puritanical argument suggesting sex is inherently bad or demeaning. It's critical argument suggesting that bad, demeaning porn is bad and demeaning.

It's a cultural issue, and it's largely to do with male / female power dynamics. Respectfully, I think it's a little glib for a gay man to say he doesn't see what they're talking about vis a vis gay porn. You wouldn't. That's not the issue. Men are equals in our society in a way that men and women are not. Whether they prefer men or women, men outside of prison don't worry about being perceived as a piece of sexual toilet paper to be used and discarded. But what I think they're talking about is that a huge proportion of (hetero) porn not only comes from exactly that place, but celebrates the fact. No humanity. No emotion. Porn itself makes an argument that sex is an empty, meaningless itch to be scratched, violently and mindlessly.

I say what "they" are talking about, because I don't propose to have the answer to all of this either -- it's complicated. Certainly puritanical bans on sexual content of any kind won't fly in any kind of open society.

But that doesn't mean there's not a huge point to be made about the crass, juvenile, soulless depictions of sex, and women in particular, that make up the bulk of "porn." Is that somehow not true? Or, are people not supposed to point it out, because even shitty, animalistic depictions of sex must get a pass from everyone, lest we become too repressive?

Bullshit. There's a lot of bad, ugly porn in the world, a lot of it insulting and demeaning to women in particular, and people who care about free speech and open discussions of sexuality ought to be helping point that out, not standing on some detached notion that we have to tread lightly so as not to cramp anyone's style.

We can make qualitative distinctions about things -- that's what progressives are supposed to be good at. It's not "porn: yes or no?" It's about bad art informed by bad ideas. Art tells stories, and if those stories rely on debasing stereotypes or a celebration of human cruelty or depredation, we ought to talk about that.






It's all good until the whips, chains and apples are brought out snooper2 Jun 2012 #1
and then it`s even better! opiate69 Jun 2012 #7
Way to beat me to it. Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #21
I actually like gay porn a lot more than straight porn. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #2
Oh, there is plenty of choking, slapping and hitting... zappaman Jun 2012 #3
All that needs to be said. Kurska Jun 2012 #5
I've only ever seen one gay porno. Ian David Jun 2012 #6
Well you are watching the wrong kind then.... Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #22
I have never seen this porn where people get hit and choked obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #23
It's not dehumanizing until you put on the panda suit. n/t Ian David Jun 2012 #4
Touche, sir n/t Kurska Jun 2012 #8
I think the argument is about how the industry treats the actors, not the viewers. Child porn, ... GodlessBiker Jun 2012 #9
But how do you regulate that? Kurska Jun 2012 #10
Straight woman here WilmywoodNCparalegal Jun 2012 #11
Straight woman here, too. Staph Jun 2012 #13
But *I* don't CONSENT to the objectification some men Fawke Em Jun 2012 #29
Thank you for posting this....I've been mulling over how to phrase this question for months.... Rowdyboy Jun 2012 #12
I don't think the dehumanization argument is that mysterious. DirkGently Jun 2012 #14
here's the irony RainDog Jun 2012 #15
A separate, unrelated point. DirkGently Jun 2012 #17
but there is a correlation b/t religious conservatism and sex crimes RainDog Jun 2012 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author DirkGently Jun 2012 #19
I don't think anyone "focuses" on porn to the exclusion of everything else. DirkGently Jun 2012 #20
Sanity, thank you! Taverner Jun 2012 #16
Porn is just a symptom of the problem Shankapotomus Jun 2012 #24
I'd add something to the conversation Aerows Jun 2012 #25
The vast majority of porn rrneck Jun 2012 #26
Bumping for more discussion. DURHAM D Jun 2012 #27
until it comes to gay rights issues and how you are portrayed/perceived? ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #28
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