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onenote

(42,610 posts)
39. You would be wrong to think that what went on here is treason. For myriad reasons.
Thu Dec 29, 2016, 02:53 PM
Dec 2016

We can start with the fact that the constitution expressly limits the circumstances that can be prosecuted as "treason", which is why such prosecutions are as rare as hen's teeth in our history. It applies if someone levies war against the US or provides aid and comfort to an enemy.

So what is a state of war? It's a shooting conflict. And we're not in a shooting conflict with Russia. Statements that Russia's hacking of emails was an act of war are simply wrong, because if they were right then we'd be in a lot of wars since there are other foreign governments whose agents have engaged in cyber-espionage against the US government and/or its citizens.

And what about giving aid and comfort to an "enemy"? Well, the term enemy, while not defined in the treason provision, is defined elsewhere in the US Code and those definitions almost certainly represent the outer boundaries of what/who constitutes an "enemy" for purposes of the treason provision.


Thus, I refer you to the definition of enemy found in title 50 of the US Code (War and National Defense): Section 2204: "the term "enemy" means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States."

The term "hostilities" is not defined in title 50, but it is defined in title 10 (Armed Forces). Section 948a - "The term “hostilities” means any conflict subject to the laws of war."

Our differences with Russia do not amount to a conflict subject to the laws of war.

As has been pointed out numerous times, it is because treason is so very narrowly defined and so thus so difficult to prosecute (as was the intent of the drafters of the Constitution) those not prosecuted for treason have included the Rosenbergs, John Walker Lindh, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, Edward Snowden....the list goes on.

There is absolutely no chance that Trump will be prosecuted for "treason" nor would there be any chance of him being convicted if such a prosecution was brought.

Finally, foreign efforts to influence US elections and of themselves aren't considered criminal or the basis for any charges against those in the US that might be encouraging such efforts. I believe it was the president of France and the prime minister of Italy that publicly "endorsed" Hillary over Trump -- presumably because they felt the election of Hillary would be better for their countries (and probably for the world as a whole) than Trump's election. Did anyone from the campaign discuss those endorsements with them before or after the fact? Don't know. Don't care. Crimes may have been committed by the Russians and its even possible that Trump was in some way complicit, but even that wouldn't mean he would or could be charged with or convicted of treason.

Obama has to show proof atreides1 Dec 2016 #1
He has, there's 17 other agencies that says there's something and something is enough in this case uponit7771 Dec 2016 #9
17 agencies that truebluegreen Dec 2016 #49
That article was written before today's new sanctions announced and declassified reports released wishstar Dec 2016 #63
I don't get it either. Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #2
"why is this election not nullified?" jberryhill Dec 2016 #10
No surprise since neither you nor I are Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #16
The Constitution is an extremely short document. former9thward Dec 2016 #18
Collusion with a foreign govt. to win an election, Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #20
Hell, Trump broke this LAW when he violated Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #21
And so what? jberryhill Dec 2016 #24
Personally I think voting machines in rust belt states were hacked, but Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #30
Amen! redstatebluegirl Dec 2016 #51
I guess the founders treestar Dec 2016 #32
You would be wrong to think that what went on here is treason. For myriad reasons. onenote Dec 2016 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #54
The Constitution takes up four pages of parchment jberryhill Dec 2016 #22
there isn't Read it yourself. bowens43 Dec 2016 #35
Barack Obama is a Constitutional Law Scholar milestogo Dec 2016 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #60
I can't claim the mantle of constitutional marybourg Dec 2016 #55
The Framers never envisioned a scenario where they'd need one jmowreader Dec 2016 #40
Nonsense jberryhill Dec 2016 #42
The perception is locked in. Trump was bolstered by Russia. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #3
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #4
read this article bdamomma Dec 2016 #5
I know. ananda Dec 2016 #6
If there were a million people in the streets and if the media covered it we could doc03 Dec 2016 #7
"not until people gave their lives at Kent State did it finnaly get results" jberryhill Dec 2016 #11
I think that turned the tide and it started winding down then or we would doc03 Dec 2016 #19
Well, then, by that standard, MineralMan Dec 2016 #31
There's also the 25th Amendment jmowreader Dec 2016 #43
Two thirds of Congress is a very, very difficult bridge to cross. MineralMan Dec 2016 #44
Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you jmowreader Dec 2016 #47
The Constitution is quite clear. MineralMan Dec 2016 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #61
US involvement in the war ended in 1973 Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #34
Maybe the public, visible involvement, but dumbcat Dec 2016 #66
the is no provision in the constitution for nulification of an election. bowens43 Dec 2016 #36
A million people is less than 1% of the registered voter population. MineralMan Dec 2016 #45
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #8
Our Constitution is not set up for what we are witnessing, Raine1967 Dec 2016 #12
Sadly true Zambero Dec 2016 #13
I doubt the Founders thought we would ever elect a blue blooded plutocrat to the highest Rex Dec 2016 #57
Exactly. Raine1967 Dec 2016 #58
Most people would think the POTUS would have to give up his holdings. Rex Dec 2016 #59
If after an election an American President wanted to reconcile with the British empire? gordianot Dec 2016 #14
$10.6 Trilllion dollars lost in 8 years under GWB ffr Dec 2016 #15
LOL, I would have liked all those people to stick around or win, too.... LisaM Dec 2016 #17
yes, by space-agey I didn't mean outer space!! jodymarie aimee Dec 2016 #23
Also missing is any talk of cleaning it up for the next election LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #25
When there are hearings in Congress they will not be in the open, they will be with those with Thinkingabout Dec 2016 #26
I suppose Obama triron Dec 2016 #27
Not in any stretch of the imagination under these circumstances onenote Dec 2016 #41
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength and... Javaman Dec 2016 #28
If there's interference on the play, the touchdown is nullified. mac56 Dec 2016 #29
this is not a silly game bowens43 Dec 2016 #37
For pete's sake! This is not a football game. MineralMan Dec 2016 #46
What exactly can Obama do with our current Constitution and laws? nini Dec 2016 #33
He can be President for the next 21 days. MineralMan Dec 2016 #62
Yep, winner is all ours. No returns. LisaL Dec 2016 #50
Ooooh it's just not fair! truebluegreen Dec 2016 #52
The "winner" Turbineguy Dec 2016 #53
I said the same thing in 2000, why did the guy that lost get to become POTUS? Rex Dec 2016 #56
correct; get ready to do it again and again. we need all paper ballots, HAND-COUNTED; TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #65
yep; it is BS. we are in uncharted territory. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #64
Keeping the ole powder dry, dontchaknow! flvegan Dec 2016 #67
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