Note to self: Don't drink out of the DU punchbowl today.

[stupidicus]

56. indeed dude

I didn't begin to cover all the potential flaws involved with the "victory".

The biggest to me is the potential machinations or intented effort at them from Roberts, who no doubt sees himself as a master of subterfuges. As soon as I heard the vote and his involvement in it with the taxing power -- not commerce clause -- justification, I smelled a rat.

That post was all about the all too often forgotten message in your closing comment, and the way so many around here and elsewhere forget about the importance of solidarity in their dittofests like this one has turned into, that are designed to embarrass and humiliate any and all dissent that isn't accompanied by an "But I love those screwing me anyway", even if 26M Americans remain screwed, etc.

I don't have any substantial problems with them following their principles and consciences in terms of thinking more about this victory than what wasn't or hasn't been gained in this ongoing fight for a fundy right to health care, I merely expect reciprocation in terms of civility, etc, not just as a personal matter, but also and moreso in the interest of preserving the solidarity lacking and so sorely needed if we lefties are to prevail this fall so as to take further baby steps in the direction of universal health care -- the goal we all presumably share. We aren't gonna get there with the silence of complacency, and pointing out and acknowledging the flaws in the formulation, creation, implementation, and drawbacks to the ACA is the only avenue to improvement and hopefully, the achievement of the shared goal that has or at least had, widespread support. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002866261

It just slays me the way so many around here insist (and try to enforce it with efforts like this top post) upon solidarity, then do everything they can to break it with nonsense. Solidarity imo, is something that is derived from common goals, and the goal is universal health care and the breaking of the lobbying influence of one more corporate/fascist entity, not something that lets them continue with their evils at the expense of 26M that will remain without healthcare. To be insulting those who remain unsatisfied is just plain wrong, if for no other reason than who they are speaking for -- those that will remain uninsured -- not to mention as noted, a threat to the crucial solidarity they laughably consider themselves the champions and creators of.

I see this on every board I've ever posted on, whether purely "liberal" like here, or where cons and lefties have at it. These online/pixelworld "commmunities" differ little from those to be found in the "real" world in terms of the social dynamics, and especially ones as old as this one where many of the posters have had the time to get to know one another and align themselves and what they post accordingly. If one wants to "fit in" with most of the old timers around here it seems, one must be willing to either forget what shouldn't be forgotten -- like the content of your response -- or be willing to make sure that you add that you love the dems/BHO despite their flaws like family or something, no matter what the offense in terms of deeds or inaction.

This is exactly how and why the divide and conquer strategy of the monied interests has been so effective in creating a faux duopoly in DC and the good cop/bad cop tactic that obscures it, so productive and profitable, and why things like the abandonment of the public option way back when, were quickly excused and forgotten.

It's also why the OWS movement sprang into existence. I'm guessing I'd be unsurprised and amused to find out that the majority of those under discussion here would defend OWS and its goals, and yet here they are daily playing popularity contest like schoolchildren in an effort to silence those who are really doing little but promoting the OWS cause. I can only speak for myself of course, but as an OWS preemie, that's my take on their efforts. BHO and the dems may be much preferable to the rightwingnuts, and especially now as they near the insanity cliff, but that should serve as no bar whatsoever to efforts to pull the dem leadership leftward. They can hang their hat on the excuse of "what's politically possible" if they want, but that imposes no duty of silence or the dismissal of the quest for more in the interest of the helpless others, or even ourselves in dedicated and selfish self-interest. I find your stance quite admirable, given the selflessness element to be seen in it.

It's almost like anything stronger than "please" in that pulling pursuit, is something akin to a mortal sin, regardless of the issue. They simply won't tolerate anything that might make the modern dems look like even the rightwingnuts of old, even though the mandate itself was their idea, amongst many.

And indeed, as a baptised Catholic, now atheist lefty, your parting comment about the redemptive and character defining value of "good works" over "faith" it's there, isn't lost on me, either in meaning or real world benefits.