Of course. As did low participation, and many other factors... See Post #525 (Reply #526)

In the discussion thread: The "extreme left" didn't give us Trump. The path to hell was paved by [View all]

Response to democratisphere (Reply #421)

Sun Mar 12, 2017, 05:29 PM

pat_k (9,287 posts)

526. Of course. As did low participation, and many other factors... See Post #525

Post #525
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8783229

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Replies to this discussion thread

536 replies	Author	Time	Post
The "extreme left" didn't give us Trump. The path to hell was paved by [View all]	pat_k	Mar 2017	OP
What 'extreme left?'	dchill	Mar 2017	#1
The OP is Wrong.. Jill Stein spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton Gave us trump	Cha	Mar 2017	#111
What makes you think that those Jill Stein voters	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#116
I stand by the article.. "Jill Stein spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton "	Cha	Mar 2017	#119
That comes with the assumption that Hillary would have received the votes	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#173
It's doesn't matter.. if they voted or stayed home.. they still fucked it up.	Cha	Mar 2017	#176
I simply don't like the idea	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#180
Didn't say they "owed" anything. Apparently not even the Planet..	Cha	Mar 2017	#181
15% of voters nationwide	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#183
How Jill Stein and Donald Trump became allies of Vladimir Putin	Cha	Mar 2017	#191
I read that this morning	True Blue American	Mar 2017	#251
And here is another level truly salient in the 2016 election results -- "Nobody won..."	Samantha	Mar 2017	#193
and there's biggest problem and our challange is to get them on our side	Ligyron	Mar 2017	#330
The leadership has done a great job...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#370
We've been naming "one of the factors" -- spreading	Hortensis	Mar 2017	#229
One hundred million Trump- and non-voters fucked it up.	Orsino	Mar 2017	#243
I agree with this.	SpankMe	Mar 2017	#279
I'm not sure we can even lump all the non-voters together, tempting as it is.	Orsino	Mar 2017	#286
Absolutely!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#377
In my view...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#374
And people on this very site bragged about voting	cwydro	Mar 2017	#305
You are missing the fact that both Stein and Johnson votes increase exponentially since 2008/2012.	boston bean	Mar 2017	#244
Because Stein did get votes	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#321
Well lets see, in Michigan Hillary lost by .3%. Stein received 1.1% of the vote	still_one	Mar 2017	#139
"Noam Chomsky made that very clear that those "Progressives who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton	Cha	Mar 2017	#152
The numbers are there Cha, thanks	still_one	Mar 2017	#155
Not that I don't see the point	angrychair	Mar 2017	#258
Of course the responsibility with what we will be going through the next 4 years lies	still_one	Mar 2017	#314
I don't disagree - the elephant in the room is that a hostile foreign power	PatrickforO	Mar 2017	#329
Keep fighting the good fight!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#395
I've also looked at the 2012 and 2008 results in those states	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#177
As I said those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary by either voting third	still_one	Mar 2017	#187
and I'm saying that a majority of those voters	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#238
I understand your point. You may not be aware, but we lost a good number of folks here who said	still_one	Mar 2017	#246
Even if you were to accept the premise that every Stein vote....	pat_k	Mar 2017	#393
It not just Stein voters	Trumpocalypse	Mar 2017	#521
Absolutely.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#525
Just out of curiosity....	vi5	Mar 2017	#308
And Comey, and Putin ...	Lil Missy	Mar 2017	#135
YES! Mahalo, Lil Missy	Cha	Mar 2017	#140
....	Lil Missy	Mar 2017	#265
Let's don't take any responsibility for any of this.	KPN	Mar 2017	#159
I posting the article in response to the first sentence of the OP.. there are other	Cha	Mar 2017	#163
I get all that.	KPN	Mar 2017	#165
You may get it.. but the OP doesn't or that wouldn't have been the 1st	Cha	Mar 2017	#170
What is it that you think I "don't get'??	pat_k	Mar 2017	#190
I disagree with you on that too.	KPN	Mar 2017	#375
Exactly. You'd think that four months later,	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#287
+1	JudyM	Mar 2017	#503
How curious that you're beating up the female candidate, when Gary Johnson (L)...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#282
Very good point	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#288
LOL So much ire toward Stein when good ol' Gary was the bigger menace...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#303
It does seem lately that there is an effort to shut down (or shout out) progressives in here.	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#315
The "angry, bitter minority" had vastly different positions at one time. VASTLY.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#323
+ 1000	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#345
Show me anywhere where ANY of "these same folks" have EVER shown ANY tendency to support cuts to	Squinch	Mar 2017	#480
Agree completely.	JudyM	Mar 2017	#504
You call exposing "beating up".. "How Jill Stein and Donald Trump became allies of Vladimir Putin"	Cha	Mar 2017	#347
Will you do a 180 on Stein like you did with Hillary?	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#351
Oh good.. all you have are insults.. no defending stein on being a putin troll?	Cha	Mar 2017	#353
Exactly... "no defending stein on being a putin troll."	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#354
Good there is no defense of the Liar stein.. she owns a chunk of trump	Cha	Mar 2017	#355
Gary Johnson owns a bigger chunk. And how much...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#356
Hey.. don't forget about fuckng james comey of the FBI.. and the Russians..	Cha	Mar 2017	#382
Is that what you call it.. "an enquiring mind"? lol	Cha	Mar 2017	#383
Post removed	Post removed	Mar 2017	#318
No, Hillary did not "spoil" the Election... and your saying that does not	Cha	Mar 2017	#364
Do you ever hear Republicans unloading on Ross Perot?	BlueWI	Mar 2017	#492
The "Extreme left gave us..." post..	pat_k	Mar 2017	#130
Your list in your post "It is not a left/moderate/right "divide." isn't complete...	George II	Mar 2017	#455
Me? Group 1.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#461
Are you serious? Let's review:	George II	Mar 2017	#462
I stand with Democrats even when they are idiots because I KNOW they are capable of better.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#463
Bashing the crap out of them for things that happened more than a decade and a half ago...	George II	Mar 2017	#464
You've made that pretty clear.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#467
P.S. You neglected to say what group I need to add	pat_k	Mar 2017	#468
If you hate the party so much, then why post at a place for Democrats?	bravenak	Mar 2017	#2
Who's worse, a criminal committing a crime, or a cop that looks the other way?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#9
Fight Trump for fuck's sake!	bravenak	Mar 2017	#10
Exactly bravenak.	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#23
It's kinda strange that we should only listen to those who are fighting us	bravenak	Mar 2017	#25
strange...	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#30
We've seen this show before. Tiresome.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#68
This is not fighing you!!!	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#138
exactly	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#272
...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#46
"For fuck's sake" the way to fight DT is to kick Dems in the butt to go all out	pat_k	Mar 2017	#40
You fight him by kicking our asses? How the hell does that make any sense?	bravenak	Mar 2017	#65
The point is to get MORE of them to vote no.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#70
No you're kicking the Democratic Party over stupid shit.	JHan	Mar 2017	#83
+1	bravenak	Mar 2017	#88
I can't take the motherfucking bullshit anymore I swear...	JHan	Mar 2017	#90
Half the shit they mad at happened before we were born	bravenak	Mar 2017	#98
and Iran-fucking-contra really?	JHan	Mar 2017	#103
I was still in Buster Browns during Iran Contra.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#105
+100000000000000000000	JHan	Mar 2017	#108
Anyone who likens anger over Iran-Contra to a "grudge"...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#143
I know because I study history..	JHan	Mar 2017	#144
Right-o. You "study history," but are you LEARNING from it?	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#146
what makes you think I am not aware of the impact of history ?	JHan	Mar 2017	#147
Meh.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#157
Naw you keep thinking about past fevers from long ago and keep misconstruing my point..	JHan	Mar 2017	#158
Be sure to let us know...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#162
Nighty night, sweet dreams!	JHan	Mar 2017	#167
LEARN FROM HISTORY.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#171
Lol.	JHan	Mar 2017	#179
"Iran-Contra taught the Republicans that they can get away with anything"...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#293
I blame Republicans.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#299
And Democrats who didn't fight that are off the hook in your world?	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#301
Who? I don't know who you're talking about.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#302
Seems to be a deafening silence in response.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#422
Actually, when Ford pardoned Nixon	charlyvi	Mar 2017	#322
Very good point.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#324
IKR! But sometimes it needs to be reinforced	charlyvi	Mar 2017	#326
But nothing matters since certain posters were still in their Buster Browns!	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#331
Here is a thread I recently started about Iran-Contra and its relation to what is happening today.	StevieM	Mar 2017	#186
Thanks, that's a rational analysis.	JHan	Mar 2017	#192
"Iran-Contra taught the Republicans that they can get away with anything."	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#294
Let's not forget the destruction of Acorn.	StevieM	Mar 2017	#185
Ugh, yes. PERFECT example.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#296
Thanks.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#188
Absolutely no one in this thread is saying to ignore history...	JHan	Mar 2017	#197
Someone who can rationalization doing nothing to stop torture...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#205
What are you going to impeach him on right now as of this moment?	JHan	Mar 2017	#207
For starters...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#212
that doesn't answer the question about impeachment:	JHan	Mar 2017	#237
I have answered the question.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#276
And secondly, your accusations that Democrats have not made the moral case for issues...	JHan	Mar 2017	#200
I didn't say "Democrats" I said "Democratic Leadership"...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#203
I don't understand that assessment..	JHan	Mar 2017	#206
Who said anything about demonizing corporations?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#210
You said it,	JHan	Mar 2017	#241
All good	pat_k	Mar 2017	#274
Ok. I get that..	JHan	Mar 2017	#285
Good post. My awareness started with seeing the body bags from Vietnam...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#300
And that diminishes it... how? (n/t)	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#141
if you want to whip the democratic party over some shit over 3 decades ago here.. hell..	JHan	Mar 2017	#145
Newsflash: It ain't all about you... things are CRITICAL right now for all ages.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#148
I just answered all this in the other post.	JHan	Mar 2017	#149
I was not of age to vote then, but I was alive at least.	herding cats	Mar 2017	#211
You two are both blind to why trying to fight Trump with Democratic politicians	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#270
Funny how the folks with the least wins think they have all the answers on winning	bravenak	Mar 2017	#271
Funny how the folks that keep losing...House,....Senate.....SCOTUS......State governorships...	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#289
"Build it and they will come."	pat_k	Mar 2017	#397
Excellent, JH.. and Just to be Clear about the "extreme left".. "not" giving us trump as the OP ..	Cha	Mar 2017	#97
they should collectively slap themselves.	JHan	Mar 2017	#113
They should most certainly give a shit.. but they don't.	Cha	Mar 2017	#114
+2	betsuni	Mar 2017	#106
+1000	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#142
The point is to get more of us to run locally to get in. Not forcing ones already in to vote no.	haele	Mar 2017	#325
It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#333
In our system apathy is not an unreasonable response.	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#433
I would LOVE to see instant runoff/ ranked choice voting in primaries!!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#443
We need DEMOCRATIC elections... and IRV is crucial...	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#453
YES!!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#458
are you really thinking this through?	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#485
My only point is that absent clarity and sufficient consensus on basic principles, there...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#486
there's will be no snowball effect...	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#489
I am an optimist at heart.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#493
where's the evidence Dems believe in....	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#509
It is to get more voters	treestar	Mar 2017	#77
Dems will get more voters if the Dem leadership...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#283
+1000!	mcar	Mar 2017	#52
It's tiresome. It's why I'm trying to pull myself away from here	bravenak	Mar 2017	#66
Haven't we learned anything?	mcar	Mar 2017	#73
Me too. I'm at the point of simply ignoring them and not giving them traction anymore	bravenak	Mar 2017	#86
This thread is alive and well in spite of your "ignoring them"...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#304
Bashing?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#82
thankyou pat_k for facing the storm paralized paranoid thinkers.	LiberalLovinLug	Mar 2017	#110
Nothing brings out the claws more than...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#160
excellent post, excellent point	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#273
Amen Bravenak!	Justice	Mar 2017	#182
you could say the same for people who want to spend their energy taking it to the "far left." Which	JCanete	Mar 2017	#214
I can't help but wonder how many...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#218
I wouldn't say it. We are fighting republicans constantly while they simply fight us	bravenak	Mar 2017	#291
that isn't true of this poster, and he's listed that over and over. It isn't true that nobody is	JCanete	Mar 2017	#298
Get your head out of the sand.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#290
All you have all insults.. maybe you just heed your own orders.	Cha	Mar 2017	#386
can you agree we should reform to fight Trump HARD???	Fast Walker 52	Mar 2017	#92
And, trying to absolve jill stein's LIES and part ownership of trump.	Cha	Mar 2017	#17
Jill Stein has never been a friend of the democratic party	bravenak	Mar 2017	#24
If you bothered to actually read anything I've posted...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#45
All you have are insults.."The "extreme left" didn't give us Trump" stein owns a Chunk of it..	Cha	Mar 2017	#60
Where did you get the bizarre idea...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#67
The "extreme left" was part owner of giving us trump.	Cha	Mar 2017	#71
Stein would be completely irrelevant to this discussion	Warpy	Mar 2017	#80
You're wrong.. stein won by more in Michigan, Pennsylvania, & Wisconsin	Cha	Mar 2017	#89
I'll say it again	Warpy	Mar 2017	#117
She LIED to get those votes... stein is a russian stooge.. if she were	Cha	Mar 2017	#390
Nailed it. Our outlooks and behaviors define	Hortensis	Mar 2017	#19
Yeah, I see they feeling themselves today	bravenak	Mar 2017	#22
They need to feel shame for their part in electing 45,	Hortensis	Mar 2017	#35
They will never feel bad for or admit their part in that	bravenak	Mar 2017	#39
Silence would be great, and maybe they'll dislike	Hortensis	Mar 2017	#53
Oh yeah. That gets me	bravenak	Mar 2017	#61
What "They" are you talking about?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#398
How many meetings with Members of Congress have you attended?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#57
So did you tell them their failure to impeach	treestar	Mar 2017	#232
The "Do you know who am AM?" defense is hilarious.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#235
Also assuming no one else here has done anything like it	mcar	Mar 2017	#247
No assumption. Just wondering.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#278
No. Focused on eliciting, and challenging, the rationalizations for inaction.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#277
There are many reasons why Hillary lost.	kacekwl	Mar 2017	#29
I want to hear ideas from people who know how to win and know who the enemy is.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#55
That would seem to support the OP's point then.	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#91
And how has kicking Dems in the ass been a winner? It hasn't. The far left as not racked up	bravenak	Mar 2017	#100
I wish someone would have kicked them into useful action long before now.	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#102
I long for the far left to help or be silent.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#104
Maybe I am just old enough to remember when Democrats didn't buy into Reaganomics.	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#107
+1	Go Vols	Mar 2017	#134
Thank You Gore1FL	pat_k	Mar 2017	#217
Hey, there are still six states to lose!	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#307
The graphic below, since 1995, is not something to be proud of.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#309
thanks!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#64
And, one reason is "extreme left" jill stein's LIES who owns a chunk of trump...	Cha	Mar 2017	#75
Takeoff on that old Broadway hit: "A funny thing happened on the way to Democratic Underground".	George II	Mar 2017	#33
lol	bravenak	Mar 2017	#59
Your response blows chunks	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#260
They love it so much that they refuse to fight trump	bravenak	Mar 2017	#266
who is "they" ?	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#268
If you dont know... That's too bad, cause I don't have time to repeat myself all day.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#269
you apparently have more than enough time	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#275
Not for you today. No time. Got class.	bravenak	Mar 2017	#280
"We can learn from RW wingnuts" ?	bettyellen	Mar 2017	#3
Not sure what the question is.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#12
I've commented several times, only once here, about my disappointment that single	notdarkyet	Mar 2017	#48
THERE WERE NEVER ENOUGH VOTES FOR SINGLE PAYER!	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#69
Forget single payer!	cannabis_flower	Mar 2017	#93
The public option was killed because of Joe Lieberman, that was his price for his vote	betsuni	Mar 2017	#120
This drives me nuts. How do people not know this?	betsuni	Mar 2017	#121
I am beyond angry.	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#123
Just because you can't win you don't try?	Exilednight	Mar 2017	#127
Do the math.	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#132
Okay, let's follow your logic to its logical conclusion.	Exilednight	Mar 2017	#227
Seems to be a deafening silence in response.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#401
Really pat?	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#497
Apologies	pat_k	Mar 2017	#498
We were talking about ACA!	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#496
I didn't put words in your mouth, I just followed your logic.	Exilednight	Mar 2017	#510
They should not be blaming the Dems but out there	treestar	Mar 2017	#234
So, free the leaders of the burden of leading?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#402
We have the push the other voters	treestar	Mar 2017	#431
Of course, but it's possible to "walk and chew gum" at the same time.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#445
I do not understand why you are so antagonistic to Dems.	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#499
Bottom up/Top Down	pat_k	Mar 2017	#500
Utterly and completely irrelevant. You're putting the cart before the horse.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#400
but those who attack obama and other dems for it do NOT fight for it either	JI7	Mar 2017	#198
I don't live in Colorado.	Exilednight	Mar 2017	#219
"Everyone loves an underdog, but everyone hates a quitter."	pat_k	Mar 2017	#494
While I agree that single payer didn't have a chance	NewJeffCT	Mar 2017	#256
You prove the OP's point	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#429
Which is why you make the case...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#495
And keep talking about it!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#201
Universal Health Care must be front and center.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#399
Great post!	True Dough	Mar 2017	#511
True. And if we don't make the case -- loud and proud -- we will never generate the political will.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#512
Not just a great post...	True Dough	Mar 2017	#514
One thing I've learned is that...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#518
I read the entire post	True Dough	Mar 2017	#523
Apologies for length	pat_k	Mar 2017	#527
As well as constantly trying to reach out to right wing lunatics	RoadhogRidesAgain	Mar 2017	#4
Yes. The notion that it's a left/moderate/right divide is flat wrong.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#14
The extreme left did give us trump..	Cha	Mar 2017	#109
I didn't vote for Stien	RoadhogRidesAgain	Mar 2017	#125
agreed!	gopiscrap	Mar 2017	#5
All that and not a single line about racist vote suppression	Starry Messenger	Mar 2017	#6
I agree	MountCleaners	Mar 2017	#13
Sorry I don't explicitly list all the things I work for in one post.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#36
+1000	brer cat	Mar 2017	#18
"Astounding" that I don't list every issue in every single post?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#199
You've been around long enough.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#26
+1000.	Hortensis	Mar 2017	#28
In re: my supposed bigotry, see post #36	pat_k	Mar 2017	#475
I noticed that too.	bettyellen	Mar 2017	#51
See post #36	pat_k	Mar 2017	#474
Right.. or that jill stein Gave us trump..	Cha	Mar 2017	#112
Regarding my supposed bigotry, see Post #36	pat_k	Mar 2017	#473
We've been losing ground for forty years	truebluegreen	Mar 2017	#126
Oh, and BTW, mass incarceration,	pat_k	Mar 2017	#136
in their world there is no racism .	JI7	Mar 2017	#150
See post #36	pat_k	Mar 2017	#472
+1	La Lioness Priyanka	Mar 2017	#444
See post #36	pat_k	Mar 2017	#471
Agree. An example of the contrast is Inslee and WA delegation stand against travel ban.	suffragette	Mar 2017	#7
Hey Suffragette!!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#476
While I think your rant is a wee bit 'over the top'	Stonepounder	Mar 2017	#8
It is Democratic Party	brer cat	Mar 2017	#15
...	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#27
Really	mcar	Mar 2017	#58
It happens to be.. The Democratic Party, Stonepounder.. and jill stein owns	Cha	Mar 2017	#62
Cory Booker is 44, Chris Murphy is 39, Kamala Harris is 52,	moonscape	Mar 2017	#87
The extreme left caused Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, throw in Nixon and Ford.	Blue_true	Mar 2017	#11
You will not absolve jill stein's LIES.. she owns a chunk of trump and those who got suckered..	Cha	Mar 2017	#16
Sing it, sister!	brer cat	Mar 2017	#21
Yeah, let's get some ******* Reality here.	Cha	Mar 2017	#31
We don't have time for this shit.	brer cat	Mar 2017	#37
No, we do not have time for this BLAME the DEMS game Absolve	Cha	Mar 2017	#54
Like Ralph Nader in 2000,	lapucelle	Mar 2017	#63
I wonder if any investigation	brer cat	Mar 2017	#78
We also would't have Chief Justice Roberts,	lapucelle	Mar 2017	#81
+1	treestar	Mar 2017	#79
Why are you conflating the poster's points with Jill Stein?	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#99
Beating a fucking dead horse.	alarimer	Mar 2017	#245
Tell that to fucking jill stein	Cha	Mar 2017	#249
Gary Johnson (L) was the much bigger issue...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#313
Lame Blame Game	Dem2	Mar 2017	#20
was this the inspiration?	DonCoquixote	Mar 2017	#32
Yes.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#220
You forgot to add this:	George II	Mar 2017	#34
...	brer cat	Mar 2017	#41
.	George II	Mar 2017	#43
THIS	sheshe2	Mar 2017	#72
Baloney, this is entirely the fault of the extreme left.	Foamfollower	Mar 2017	#38
Not so.	warmfeet	Mar 2017	#56
Yep	Go Vols	Mar 2017	#76
No they didn't	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#94
No, 308,000 Bush-voting Florida Democrats gave us Duyba.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#166
This obvious fact will never be addressed by Third Way apologists.	BlueWI	Mar 2017	#505
Mostly disagree.	Act_of_Reparation	Mar 2017	#42
Excellent points. You'll get flamed. Hang in there n/t	leftstreet	Mar 2017	#44
So someone didn't get their pony so they figure screw everyone else?	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Mar 2017	#47
A little too much hyperbole, but I agree with the poster.	PatrickforO	Mar 2017	#49
AMEN! nt	Susan Calvin	Mar 2017	#306
The extreme left that voted for Bush in Florida in 2000? The extreme left that picked Reagan?	Rex	Mar 2017	#50
any proof any of that	treestar	Mar 2017	#74
Could we at least start bu calling crimes "crimes"? nt	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#96
Agree. They have good	zentrum	Mar 2017	#84
I agree with much of what you say. Voter apathy is consequence.	jalan48	Mar 2017	#85
The Sane "Progressive" Makes the Exact Same Points!	TomCADem	Mar 2017	#95
Turned it off after she said both sides. FUCK RON PAUL.	Raine1967	Mar 2017	#128
The So-Called "Sane" Progressive...	LovingA2andMI	Mar 2017	#161
You nailed it	emulatorloo	Mar 2017	#254
My brother has a very good theory about company names and monikers	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#365
Jill Stein spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton.. there goes your premise..	Cha	Mar 2017	#101
I blame James Comey a lot more than I do Jill Stein.	StevieM	Mar 2017	#336
Oh comey was at fault too but the LIES stein told and in Swing States Cost us the election..	Cha	Mar 2017	#339
I don't dispute that Stein, like Nader, cost us the presidency.	StevieM	Mar 2017	#344
You are correct, of course. Too many here don't remember when the Democrats weren't cowards	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#115
as opposed to...what exactly?	Chitown Kev	Mar 2017	#118
As opposed to democrats who cower in a corner and cry "don't hurt me." nt	Gore1FL	Mar 2017	#124
Also, as much as I love Obama, I also criticize him for not calling out the Republicans enough	Akamai	Mar 2017	#122
K&R	burrowowl	Mar 2017	#129
The push to convince us we can only be center right to alt-right is well underway. It's	brewens	Mar 2017	#131
Another "Show us on the dolly where the Democratic Party touched you" post.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#133
everytime they post things like that on the internet they feel like tough rebels	JI7	Mar 2017	#151
yes	mike_c	Mar 2017	#137
LOLOLOL, So White people supported Trump because REagan,Bush etc wasn't impeached , indicted Etc ?	JI7	Mar 2017	#153
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but note the absolution this gives to racist whites. nt	msanthrope	Mar 2017	#419
I understand where youre coming from. But since we cant go back, we must go forward and keep this	caroldansen	Mar 2017	#154
I don't think anyone in particular gave us The Con. For DECADES I've been told we should elect	napi21	Mar 2017	#156
Good, honest post.	KPN	Mar 2017	#164
It's not really 'so many' that take it personally	melman	Mar 2017	#168
All you have are insults.. you need to take a look at yourself.	Cha	Mar 2017	#172
"The usual group of obnoxious trolls that has made this place so unbearable."	betsuni	Mar 2017	#174
Yeah, sounds like projection to me.	Cha	Mar 2017	#178
It is! Typical.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#184
...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#316
Post removed	Post removed	Mar 2017	#317
No, it is not a "good honest post".. the first sentence is wrong..	Cha	Mar 2017	#175
Lets just say we disagree.	KPN	Mar 2017	#371
Brave words on DU at this time. But I agree.	Crunchy Frog	Mar 2017	#169
Meanwhile people are going to die.	herding cats	Mar 2017	#189
Excellent Post, herding cats! Some freaking Reality.. How Refreshing even	Cha	Mar 2017	#194
Thanks, Cha.	herding cats	Mar 2017	#202
I know.. it seems ridiculous to me.. lets blame the Dems because	Cha	Mar 2017	#204
Ridiculous, that's an excellent choice of words.	herding cats	Mar 2017	#208
+1	betsuni	Mar 2017	#195
Yep, and the excuse from the OP and those that agree with them for not opposing this is that those	stevenleser	Mar 2017	#436
Excuse for not opposing what?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#469
No, it is not the extreme left and who is the extreme left by your	akbacchus_BC	Mar 2017	#196
Here's the post I'm responding to:	pat_k	Mar 2017	#216
Albeit late but thanks for your response. In hindsight, trump promised people things he	akbacchus_BC	Mar 2017	#378
You have no moral high ground	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#209
exactly, black members get no recognition	JI7	Mar 2017	#213
Re-read my post.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#223
Congress, and only Congress, can Impeach.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#215
Your argument still lacks logic	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#222
Standing ovation	betsuni	Mar 2017	#224
Re-read my post.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#221
You are justifying collaboration with the right in electing Trump	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#225
The hell I am.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#226
Your phrase "self-entitled ourgeoisie" to describe the "left" who voted against Hillary	delisen	Mar 2017	#239
Please quote something I said that does any of the things you claim I'm doing.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#284
Nixon was forced from office	nolabels	Mar 2017	#230
I don't usually. . .	pat_k	Mar 2017	#281
Eight or ten years ago things were much more worthwhile at DU	nolabels	Mar 2017	#312
Yes, "back in the day"...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#332
+100000000	treestar	Mar 2017	#228
Thread win!	mcar	Mar 2017	#248
Excellent series of posts.	emulatorloo	Mar 2017	#252
your response is cowardly	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#261
mostly white men who see attacks on minorities as strength	JI7	Mar 2017	#292
that's bull	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#295
lol. they do and white men mostly go for the bigots. thats why they still approve of trump	JI7	Mar 2017	#319
What they respond to is STRENGTH	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#357
What does Donald Trump believe?	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#362
I'm not talking about revolutionaries	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#416
yes, they agree with hating and attacks on minorities. that's what matters to them . Trump is strong	JI7	Mar 2017	#369
Strength doesn't have to be tied to racism	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#413
if strength is truth than trumps bigotry is truth	JI7	Mar 2017	#430
Keep fighting that strawman.	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#434
they voted for an openly racist candidate and continue to support him	JI7	Mar 2017	#438
and what does that have to do with Democrats fighting hard	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#439
because it's important to know where voters stand if you want their votes	JI7	Mar 2017	#440
right. And your thesis is that racism is more enticing than strength/dominance behavior	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#441
in their case it's about racism. many who voted Hillary saw her as strong	JI7	Mar 2017	#442
I saw her as pretty strong myself.	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#446
that was before Obama became president. with non white people	JI7	Mar 2017	#451
I'm going to explain this to you one more time, slowly, just in case we can have a meeting	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#454
you need to first admit they are bigots then it's not difficult to understand	JI7	Mar 2017	#456
Of course there are bigots, and reactionaries, and authoritarians...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#466
There is "Strong and Wrong" and "Strong and Right"	pat_k	Mar 2017	#465
"Strength is truth, spoken with conviction, framed in a moral matrix, and backed up by action"	pat_k	Mar 2017	#460
Strength, like Donald Trump?	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#361
What in the fucking hell are you going on about?	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#414
They are being very vocal	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#515
You are objectively pro-fascist	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#516
Of course your response isn't "cowardly".. all they have ignornant insults	Cha	Mar 2017	#264
And I'm sure that defending those victims meekly	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#418
Oh, good grief!	NurseJackie	Mar 2017	#231
That OP is an example of the propoganda against Democrats	Progressive dog	Mar 2017	#233
No it is not.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#470
I read what you said here.	Progressive dog	Mar 2017	#479
"Apparently even to you???"	pat_k	Mar 2017	#483
you wrote "This is NOT about 'bashing'"	Progressive dog	Mar 2017	#502
Yeah, um, no. The extreme left gave us Jill Stein. It also gives us calls 2 primary current Dems	msanthrope	Mar 2017	#236
No, that road was paved by presumed "democrats" (not Democrats)....	George II	Mar 2017	#240
Don't forget the DLC and Third Way nonsense.	alarimer	Mar 2017	#242
+1,000.	HughBeaumont	Mar 2017	#253
The DLC hasn't been in existence for more than six years. How could they have driven people away...	George II	Mar 2017	#257
They need to get up to speed with their insulting labels.	Cha	Mar 2017	#262
It's all Harry Truman's fault.	George II	Mar 2017	#263
Senator Joe Lieberman (D), 2008 John McCain (R) supporter...	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#328
you really should let that go. Hillary won me over just like she	Cha	Mar 2017	#425
Or not.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#342
Twenty-six years of damage is not easily undone.	SMC22307	Mar 2017	#327
"Third-way" was born out of the leadership's fear of "backlash"..	pat_k	Mar 2017	#341
Totally Disagree with you!	DownriverDem	Mar 2017	#250
Not sure what post you are responding to...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#338
A lot of people don't want to admit that the dems had any responsibility in this clusterfuck.	CrispyQ	Mar 2017	#255
Hear fucking hear	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#259
Thank you so much!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#337
glad to be able to help, in some small way	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#358
if they fight to go after black and brown people. Trump supporters LOVE	JI7	Mar 2017	#372
Do you/others really think that strength equals racism?	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#417
Grab them by the pussy Strength	JI7	Mar 2017	#373
Say what you will about the Oaf of Office	ProfessorPlum	Mar 2017	#412
NONSENSE ALERT!!!	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#267
And if more of us...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#335
if you're blaming the Dems for not reforming the Constitution....	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#363
Did you even bother to look at the link??	pat_k	Mar 2017	#368
I'm well aware of the NPV... what's your point?	eniwetok	Mar 2017	#376
Spot on!	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2017	#297
Maybe that's why the GOP is winning elections	Trumpocalypse	Mar 2017	#424
Your assumption is weak.	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2017	#426
Not an assumption	Trumpocalypse	Mar 2017	#508
I don't know, but to me it sure seems like voter apathy put...	iscooterliberally	Mar 2017	#310
In my view...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#320
Understood. I actually signed up as a Democrat because or Bernie Sanders & Elizabeth Warren.	iscooterliberally	Mar 2017	#437
The OP you are referring to is total garbage.	Rex	Mar 2017	#311
Oh you're wrong, Rex.. dead wrong. There was no "revisionist" history	Cha	Mar 2017	#340
Thanks to all who Recommended!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#334
Of of all the reasons to pick	Eko	Mar 2017	#343
"Strong and Wrong" v. Weak and Right" v. "Strong and Right"	pat_k	Mar 2017	#346
Sure, what you are saying is correct to a point.	Eko	Mar 2017	#349
What? Where am i "asking us to be wrong.."??	pat_k	Mar 2017	#360
These people were "weak but right"	Eko	Mar 2017	#352
Are you kidding? Those people are icons of strength!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#359
Mahalo, Eko!	Cha	Mar 2017	#348
nope,	Eko	Mar 2017	#350
This thread has twice the recs	Go Vols	Mar 2017	#366
Cha and Bravenak, thanks for doing a Great Job keeping the OP kicked!!	pat_k	Mar 2017	#367
Let me put it to you another way	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#380
"You and others had repeatedly argued that the left didn't affect the election results in any way."	pat_k	Mar 2017	#384
Damn the torpedos ...	Go Vols	Mar 2017	#385
That post does not support what you claim	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#391
No, I said none of that.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#394
Let's review then	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#396
Are you kidding?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#403
Non responsive. Nt	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#406
P.S.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#404
I asked a simple question	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#405
A request for a tally of votes lost the party over three decades is NOT "a simple question."	pat_k	Mar 2017	#407
I told you I was not asking for a tally	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#408
No	pat_k	Mar 2017	#409
"The extreme left didn't give us Trump"	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#410
This is pointless.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#411
You have an aversion to logic	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#415
You are being intentionally obtuse.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#420
It's a War on Logic.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#423
Deleted reply to wrong post	pat_k	Mar 2017	#477
Logic based on erroneous assumptions is fatally flawed.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#478
I've never made that claim either, and I've had a few recent conversations with you on this topic.	JCanete	Mar 2017	#447
Take the hint	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#448
You don't have to be interested. It's still here if other people are. Personally, I find it	JCanete	Mar 2017	#452
I appreciate the post.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#481
that is going to be very hard to do. It just takes continuing to be patient i think, and putting in	JCanete	Mar 2017	#501
Takes a lot of work to count up everyone's posts in a thread. But...	George II	Mar 2017	#457
Nah. Pull the "index" into a table and sort by poster. Piece of cake.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#459
I want to thank them too, for proving your assertions wrong so all can see. nt	stevenleser	Mar 2017	#534
See #532	pat_k	Mar 2017	#536
The "extreme left" was only reason #3 for Trump	Ruy Lopez	Mar 2017	#379
Except there is significant overlap	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#381
Let me know how	Ruy Lopez	Mar 2017	#388
The overlap	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#392
You must have misread my post	Ruy Lopez	Mar 2017	#528
You mentioned voters motivated by race	BainsBane	Mar 2017	#530
I think I see where the misunderstanding comes from	Ruy Lopez	Mar 2017	#531
Both reasons pale in comparison.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#387
Bill Clinton's campaign mantra: "It's the economy, stupid"	Ruy Lopez	Mar 2017	#389
The alt-left certainly did help.	democratisphere	Mar 2017	#421
Of course. As did low participation, and many other factors... See Post #525	pat_k	Mar 2017	#526
if stein voters weren't extreme left...then who is?...every vote for her was a vote for trump	beachbum bob	Mar 2017	#427
What paved the road to the "balance point"?	pat_k	Mar 2017	#449
Exactly what comprises the monolithic "party leadership" circa 1985-2017?	lapucelle	Mar 2017	#482
It will take me awhile to dig up quotes from the leadership...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#484
Why not simply define what you mean by "leadership"?	lapucelle	Mar 2017	#487
Sorry. Thought that was a given.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#488
You forgot "president"	lapucelle	Mar 2017	#490
Of course...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#491
I feel this thing needs a musical interlude.	betsuni	Mar 2017	#428
LOL Grieg never knew	treestar	Mar 2017	#432
Nope, wishing doesn't make it so. There is no evidence for what you write. You just want it to be	stevenleser	Mar 2017	#435
See Post #449	pat_k	Mar 2017	#450
I saw it. Just more wishing to make it so. All unproven wild assertions. nt	stevenleser	Mar 2017	#532
So, it was right to...	pat_k	Mar 2017	#535
Strong, well-conceived OP. I'd toss in also the bandwidth and high ground our leadership loses	JudyM	Mar 2017	#506
The Democrats lost because they hollowed out their principles.	backscatter712	Mar 2017	#507
Yes they did...they are spoilers who refuse to face reality and consider winning strategies...they	Demsrule86	Mar 2017	#513
See Post #393	pat_k	Mar 2017	#519
Every eligible voter who didn't vote for Clinton gave us this.	dawg	Mar 2017	#517
See Post #393	pat_k	Mar 2017	#520
Um ... yeah, I already saw that one.	dawg	Mar 2017	#522
Our primaries are great places to start ranked choice.	pat_k	Mar 2017	#524
What manner of absurd infighting is this?	VOX	Mar 2017	#529
Yes. The beating up on the so-called "extreme left" needs to stop (nt)	pat_k	Mar 2017	#533

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