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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
62. I didn't change my mind. I said "Dynasties are a terrible principle by which to run democracies"
Mon Mar 13, 2017, 08:19 AM
Mar 2017

And I think that is a fairly self-evident truth, actually.

(I guess you got tired and gave up trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say to argue against, so now you're doing the "declare victory and go home" shtick. Ok, well, have fun.)

I hate to have to repeat myself, but I'll do it- I think it's pretty damn obvious that some peoples' reflexive desires to 'go there' in terms of dynastic rule dates back to monarchal eras or even earlier sort of primate pack behaviors, shit, I'm sure it's hard wired in the social mammalian brain. You probably see dogs doing similar stuff, in the wild, I'd imagine.

Does that mean that there NEVER can be a good or wise or effective leader who comes from a family of other good or wise or effective leaders? Fuck, no. And just like sometimes an actor's kid can make it in Hollywood more effectively because they're connected and know how the business works, I'm sure it even sometimes makes good sense.

But personally, I don't give anyone any extra points if their last name is "Kennedy", and frankly when I see people in our party operating under what appears to be the magical thinking, delusional belief that what is keeping us from winning isn't inspirational leaders who aren't afraid to lead, to articulate our values, to take potentially unpopular but ethical and forward-thinking stands (my view) but rather that we just haven't found the right face with the right name... well, know what? it's fucking tiresome. Just like it's tiresome that here we are 3 and a half years out from the next presidential election, and we're ALREADY being presented by those 'in the know' with an unappetizing buffet of well-connected boring East Coast party insiders, all universally clueless about issues that the Western half of the country cares about, that we're presumably going to be "allowed" to pick from in 2020. Andrew Cuomo? Boy, I can hardly wait for the primaries.

But, a lot of things are tiresome. Maybe this red-haired kennedy kid is the future of our party. Like I said, I'll certainly give him a chance (he's gotta be better than his cousin the anti-vaxxer or the other cousin who is on the anti-weed crusade) ... but again, I think it's worth noting that the most impressive piece of oratorical leadership I've seen, personally, in the past month came from a dude I'd never heard of whose last name is "Buttigeig".

Joseph Kennedy lll in 2020 [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 OP
Democrats need to get him out there. Vinca Mar 2017 #1
He has a commitment to liberal values which he is able to articulate. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #2
He has been showing up on the radar recently. TexasTowelie Mar 2017 #4
Possible VP candidate Chasstev365 Mar 2017 #3
Youth and wisdom are not mutually exclusive. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #5
However, youth and long experience are. ehrnst Mar 2017 #16
Obama was only in the senate 3 years Motley13 Mar 2017 #11
Let's see what happens. He made a good start. He is promising... CTyankee Mar 2017 #36
Dynasty wasn't even a very good television show. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #6
Maybe we need more "rags to riches" stories like Donald Thump. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #7
No, but Barack Obama and, even Bill Clinton both came out of nowhere. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #8
That argument was made about Ted Kennedy in first Senate run. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #9
Suggesting that we've gotten some of our best recent leadership where people might not Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #15
Do you think that should be a qualification for running? ehrnst Mar 2017 #14
No. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #18
You gave a great description of what is enough for an activist, or leader of a movement. ehrnst Mar 2017 #25
That guy (Trump) is not charismatic, inspirational, nor is he a natural leader. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #30
Because she had the last name Clinton, she didn't merit the office? ehrnst Mar 2017 #38
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were both complete products of meritocracy, as much as such a thing is Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #43
So you're saying Yes, because of her last name, HRC was not running on merit. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #47
If i had ten bucks for every time someone did the "So you're saying..." followed by something Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #48
You omitted her in your list of those who merited office. Your post - right up there... ehrnst Mar 2017 #50
Jesus fuck. The fact that you have to construct arguments Ive never made, here Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #54
Perfectly. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #58
So we disqualify him automatically on the basis of his family tree? That's democracy? ehrnst Mar 2017 #13
Look, man, anyone who knows me knows how hard it is to get me to shut up. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #17
That is the effect of your point, isn't it? Whether you put it that way or not. ehrnst Mar 2017 #39
I've said repeatedly in this thread I'm not "excluding" anyone. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #44
So you've changed your mind since the "Dynasty was a bad TV show...." ehrnst Mar 2017 #51
If Joe Kennedy III is really all that, i will gladly suppport the guy. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #55
Wow, what an odd response. n/t USALiberal Mar 2017 #33
...is it? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #34
Yes. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #40
K&R! stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #10
He's good, but he's got time to build the resume. And we need him where he is right now. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #12
My problem with him is that - as I understand jimlup Mar 2017 #19
That's his first cousin once removed Robert Kennedy Jr. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #20
We do owe Donald Trump a debt of gratitude. gordianot Mar 2017 #21
Anyone who doesn't think his family's history nocalflea Mar 2017 #22
You mean the family history of giving three lives in service to their nation ? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #23
I hope it is, it'll tie him to good people... Benedict Donald is tied to a white supremacist uponit7771 Mar 2017 #24
This is about a general election. The Kennedy nocalflea Mar 2017 #26
No politician, living or dead, is universally loved. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #28
Hmmmm, then we're making the mistake of proffering the perfect while they proffer the horrible uponit7771 Mar 2017 #29
Yep - people will accuse him of being part of a "dynasty" some of whom died before he was born ehrnst Mar 2017 #41
Okay, let me play the devil's advocate for a minute, here, then- Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #45
Um... I'm not one of those people suggesting that we "fast-track" him. ehrnst Mar 2017 #46
And I'm not suggesting we exclude him. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #49
So you've changed your mind since the "Dynasty was a bad TV show...." ehrnst Mar 2017 #52
Nope. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #56
Smokescreen.... ehrnst Mar 2017 #57
I didn't change my mind. I said "Dynasties are a terrible principle by which to run democracies" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #62
Hopefully by 2020, we won't be all the way back to hating Irish Catholics Starry Messenger Mar 2017 #27
Ted Kennedy didn't lose because of "Chappaquiddick, womanizing, and hard partying" brooklynite Mar 2017 #31
Did history begin and end in 1980? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #32
No, but his Presidential campaign did brooklynite Mar 2017 #35
Precisely for the reasons I cited. Thank you for the confirmation. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #37
Was thinking that when I saw him.... kerry-is-my-prez Mar 2017 #42
No IMO GitRDun Mar 2017 #53
we didn't lose because her name was Clinton... was far more complicated than that Fast Walker 52 Mar 2017 #59
Not really GitRDun Mar 2017 #63
You said "Joseph Kennedy lll" (with three lower-case L's) but I keep seeing "Joseph Kennedy Ill" ... NurseJackie Mar 2017 #60
Is it just me? JKIII reminds me a lot of Conan... NurseJackie Mar 2017 #61
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