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And we thought they were barbaric in medeivel times... HopeAgain Mar 2017 #1
So what are people to do if someone breaks in with a knife? cpamomfromtexas Mar 2017 #2
Ditto exboyfil Mar 2017 #7
One with a knife and the other with brass knuckles lostnfound Mar 2017 #22
Back to the Future! HAB911 Mar 2017 #55
How do you know their intent was theft? ileus Mar 2017 #210
You're right Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #218
Theft is the least serious possible motive Amishman Mar 2017 #248
what's your plan? hide in the closet and hope nobody finds you? frankieallen Mar 2017 #235
If he shot them with an arrow or stabbed them with a knife xor Apr 2017 #566
One of the suspects was found in the driveway... ExciteBike66 Mar 2017 #3
The one outside was shot inside and flee after being shot Amishman Mar 2017 #73
Gotcha, thanks for the info! ExciteBike66 Mar 2017 #98
These home invasion stories usually unravel SecularMotion Mar 2017 #4
Yup...something sounds fishy here..... Bengus81 Mar 2017 #24
Not to worry, our resident gun-rights people will inform us of any such developments. Girard442 Mar 2017 #60
I can inform you that this story isn't unraveling. LisaL Mar 2017 #405
If they came for drugs I'd think they'd be armed better. NWCorona Mar 2017 #25
Is there any evidence to suggest that? synergie Mar 2017 #258
No. LisaL Mar 2017 #402
I'm a fervent gun control advocate bigtree Mar 2017 #5
I'm not a big gun control advocate metalbot Mar 2017 #9
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #47
Why the snark? Poster was merely expressing an opinion. Fla Dem Mar 2017 #80
One wonders, but apparently there had been recent burglaries in the area. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #255
We had high school students robbing residences in the daytime with Jim Beard Mar 2017 #440
I not sure how it matters if there was a connection. aikoaiko Mar 2017 #376
Reports now are the connection is that the female Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #377
you and me both.. i actually sleep with a loaded glock under my bed... samnsara Mar 2017 #40
I have a weekend home with a 900' driveway that has been broken into HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #58
Same here, gun control and all, only it's a semi-auto shotgun. Hortensis Mar 2017 #225
I would do the same! IMO anyone breaking into a home like that is not coming for coffee. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2017 #245
Well, if you call out you are armed and they don't turn and get out, one assumes armed and dangerous Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #271
We don't have enough evidence to form a reliable impression, but... Bucky Mar 2017 #52
Justified; but probably a sociopath that took pleasure in his license to murder 3 people Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #67
Yeah, but you don't know Bucky Mar 2017 #81
Civilized people are more afraid of taking a life than their life being taken Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #93
Do you have children? Marengo Mar 2017 #125
Does that matter? Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #132
Can you provide a yes or no answer? Marengo Mar 2017 #147
I like how you've just assumed the victim feels guiltless. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #151
"I don't need to have certain primitive biological impulses that accompany rearing of offspring" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #162
"This is what makes the western world so much better" LexVegas Mar 2017 #126
Civilized people are usually more concerend with defending their families when people synergie Mar 2017 #261
Thank you for that link. It was a great article to read Bucky Mar 2017 #374
Did you actually read the article you cite? Straw Man Mar 2017 #394
Civilized people NCDem777 Apr 2017 #483
Warning shots and aiming for legs? nil desperandum Mar 2017 #129
The military trains you to overcome empathy in the line of fire and the social conditioning Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #134
Wrong, wrong, completely and utterly wrong. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #141
Fight or flight is all about survival. Nothing unnatural about it at all. jmg257 Mar 2017 #145
It's perfectly natural NCDem777 Apr 2017 #484
NEVER shoot an intruder in the legs. Binkie The Clown Mar 2017 #184
I wasn't military trained Rowdyag Mar 2017 #378
Indeed.... nil desperandum Mar 2017 #383
Warning shots are illegal. Shooting at the legs is employing deadly force without justification. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #131
It doesn't matter if it's illegal. Not doing it means you WANT to kill a person. Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #135
Ridiculous. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #138
Sometimes there are good reasons to take a life Calculating Mar 2017 #216
Bullshit. You want to survive, or you want other family members to survive. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #265
You posted this upthread: yagotme Apr 2017 #491
You have no idea what you would do in that situation. Adrahil Mar 2017 #185
"Aim for the legs" is a Hollywoodism Oneironaut Mar 2017 #212
Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened? 58Sunliner Mar 2017 #252
If you are facing three you assume to be armed, you can't afford shooting for the legs. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #256
Aiming for the legs can be very deadly. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #269
You should brush up on your self defense laws. ManiacJoe Mar 2017 #311
"Maybe I'd kill one person from adrenaline but that's about it." Takket Mar 2017 #316
This is what we call 'projection'... Baconator Mar 2017 #353
I suspect drugs are involved TNLib Mar 2017 #366
Cops said that they were not HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #397
You suspect wrong. LisaL Mar 2017 #403
I agree with you. We had three in our area in the last year - in two of them the young woman home anneboleyn Mar 2017 #87
What is the point of living life so fearful and paranoid? kcr Mar 2017 #102
I have a fire extinguisher in my home. Go Vols Mar 2017 #174
Living Life IS the point. Not really a downside for most people in wanting to be prepared, or jmg257 Mar 2017 #177
So, the smoke detector companies, and the car companies, yagotme Apr 2017 #493
I don't know what you are saying. I am well aware that the chance of something like this happening anneboleyn Apr 2017 #520
Heartbreaking EL34x4 Mar 2017 #260
If they exchanged words janterry Mar 2017 #6
Exchanged words Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #12
You're probably right janterry Mar 2017 #13
Burglars are humans. Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #68
Do you live in a nice area ? Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #154
Humans can converse only if both sides consent to it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #226
If they're armed with knives NCDem777 Apr 2017 #485
Well..... Adrahil Mar 2017 #186
I have no idea janterry Mar 2017 #231
What should they have done ? Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #8
They died doing what they loved superpatriotman Mar 2017 #16
They rolled the dice Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #18
ha!! Bucky Mar 2017 #53
Just like Elvis. AngryAmish Mar 2017 #111
Elvis loved pooping? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #165
Damn right! beaglelover Mar 2017 #176
THREE intruders? TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #10
Ditto. nt cwydro Mar 2017 #21
And gloves. I would have pooped my pants. What about Ma Barker redux? Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #257
Someone invaded your home. They aren't there to have coffee Thrill Mar 2017 #11
Shooting at them might get you killed too. Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #69
Thus the argument for 30 round magazines. ileus Mar 2017 #84
"He killed Bob AND Steve! I'm gonna kidnap him and torture him for 15 years now!" Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #97
So your argument is... Adrahil Apr 2017 #472
So could not doing so Renew Deal Mar 2017 #106
Yeah there's really no correct answer besides physically removing yourself from the situation Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #112
The real reason to have an alarm sarisataka Mar 2017 #114
Thank goodness 30 rounds magazines are standard meathead Apr 2017 #533
Have to agree in a case like this treestar Mar 2017 #360
Callous gunners will say you don't fire warning shots. I don't know. I can't see that the Hoyt Mar 2017 #14
I'm no fan of gun ownership, but I think we need to be careful with 'shot in the back' conclusions Kentonio Mar 2017 #29
If he's out in the front yard face down, homeowner probably shot him running. That's wrong. Hoyt Mar 2017 #34
Ah yeah, totally with you on the fleeing stuff being horrible. Kentonio Mar 2017 #50
He's not being honest about that. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #288
There is a difference in running to escape and running to take cover.... Jim Beard Mar 2017 #446
Could you link one of those discussions where DU members advocating the shooting of fleeing... Marengo Mar 2017 #63
Go to the Gungeon, there were plenty of them back when I was allowed to post there. Hoyt Mar 2017 #275
I didn't find any with an admittedly quick search. Do you recall the user names of DU members... Marengo Mar 2017 #282
They will not 'recall' any user names- it's just a Trump-like slur against their opponents friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #301
Without evidence, your claim is bullshit- and it's not our job to dig it up for you friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #312
Yeah, NRA and others pushing guns everywhere have proven to be such honorable souls. Hoyt Mar 2017 #313
Still no evidence? Like I said- it's bullshit friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #318
Can you give us names of DU members doing this? Marengo Mar 2017 #347
You'd have to check out the Gungeon, especially those who have been booted from DU over Hoyt Mar 2017 #352
If you wish to be regarded with credibility, I would suggest you add proof to the posts in which... Marengo Mar 2017 #358
Warning shots are NOT recommended by legal and self-defense experts, and are prosecutable... Marengo Mar 2017 #65
And "self-defense experts" are in the business of teaching people how to kill, not Hoyt Mar 2017 #127
Can you provide cites by legal experts and/or law enforcement which recommend and advocate... Marengo Mar 2017 #143
Clearly you have never taken sarisataka Mar 2017 #152
Bull, rest of course teaching how to get away murder and intimidation and what to say to police Hoyt Mar 2017 #272
Have you taken a course? Marengo Mar 2017 #280
Have you taken one by the NRA, most gunners take the NRA course. Guess the like listening Hoyt Mar 2017 #294
That's a steaming pile of Colonism: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #303
The instructor for my cwp class is NRA certified, and said nothing like what you claim. I noticed... Marengo Mar 2017 #345
You didn't answer my question. Have you taken such a course? Marengo Mar 2017 #346
I took the State of North Carolina course, authored by the NC Department of Justice. benEzra Mar 2017 #425
"gunner"? That is exactly the same kind of insult as "n*gger". gilbert sullivan Apr 2017 #544
Welcome to DU. yagotme Apr 2017 #563
You could have simply sarisataka Mar 2017 #286
Just out of curiosity- why is your photo collection racially segregated? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #304
That's racism, something the majority of white wing gunners are quite familiar. Hoyt Mar 2017 #315
Yes, it is -and in this case the racism is yours friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #317
What percentage of white gun owners are racist? Marengo Mar 2017 #348
Well, since 70% of gun owners are right wing, that should put you pretty close. Hoyt Mar 2017 #351
Things that make one go, Hmmmmmmm HAB911 Mar 2017 #354
Where does the 70% figure come from? Marengo Mar 2017 #359
Ex recto... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #436
Despite your claimed familiarity sarisataka Mar 2017 #368
Didn't stop you from casting all kinds of shade on him in your first posts. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #289
This one hit close to home, Hoyt? X_Digger Mar 2017 #322
Xdigger, your gun cache not keeping you occupied.? You know the context of that post. Hoyt Mar 2017 #325
Are you a former robber? Marengo Mar 2017 #349
What do you think? You too should not be carrying gunz in public. Hoyt Mar 2017 #350
You said: "As a former robber, I locked the door to keep people out, especially police." Marengo Mar 2017 #356
Yes, because you gunners looking for a rationale to shoot away claimed that if a robber closed Hoyt Mar 2017 #361
Interesting. Would you be willing to share your robbery expertise and experiences? Did you... Marengo Mar 2017 #362
Looking forward to your response to my questions in post 362! Marengo Mar 2017 #390
I've already answered. Apparently you are too obtuse to get it. Hoyt Mar 2017 #399
My questions in that post are specific to your... Marengo Mar 2017 #410
Yes, I told you where "robber" came from. What the heck is wrong with you besides your Hoyt Mar 2017 #421
I'm asking if you are willing to share details about... Marengo Mar 2017 #434
Since you're back in this thread, how about answering my questions in post#362? Marengo Apr 2017 #514
I am licensed by my state of residence to do just that, and now I can clearly understand why... Marengo Mar 2017 #364
George Zimmerman has a license too. Hoyt Mar 2017 #365
Is every license holder in the USA comparable to George Zimmerman? What about residents... Marengo Mar 2017 #367
I think they all carry pretty much for the same reason. Don't you? Hoyt Mar 2017 #369
What reason is that? Marengo Mar 2017 #370
What reason is that? Marengo Mar 2017 #391
Next time you get ready to strap one on, ask yourself. Hoyt Mar 2017 #398
I'm asking you to explain what you think the... Marengo Mar 2017 #408
Because gunners can't handle the truth. Hoyt Mar 2017 #409
What "truth" is that? Marengo Mar 2017 #411
What "truth" is that? Why won't you reply? Marengo Mar 2017 #435
"You can't handle the truth." yagotme Apr 2017 #495
What "truth" is that? Marengo Apr 2017 #515
Probably the reason is that there are some christx30 Apr 2017 #545
What happened to your reliance on canned beans and bicycle tires? n/t oneshooter Apr 2017 #535
Sounds like the home invaders were serious bad guys but... Girard442 Mar 2017 #15
I'm pretty sure the neighbors are just grateful TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #20
He didn't "smoke anyone he sees" cwydro Mar 2017 #23
By smoking anyone he sees... Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #70
Yes he should have invited them in for tea and biscuits BannonsLiver Mar 2017 #49
Perhaps he could have offered them an interest-free microloan. Marengo Mar 2017 #77
You break into my house you're getting "smoked" as well. WoonTars Mar 2017 #109
Do we have any evidence that the shooter thinks that way? Adrahil Apr 2017 #473
Seems a clear case of very bad decision making by the deceased, and their driver. jmg257 Mar 2017 #17
Obviously a criminal who deserves to be prosecuted, but.. Kentonio Mar 2017 #31
That is somethng, isn't it? And she turned herself in. Don't think she knew what was headed her way. jmg257 Mar 2017 #36
She dropped off armed people she knew were there to commit a crime. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #42
She should be charged with being an accomplice to a robbery Kentonio Mar 2017 #51
People who commit felonies are responsible for the outcome of the felonies. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #56
It's completely contrary to any reasonable intepretation of justice Kentonio Mar 2017 #59
It's unreasonable to think that armed home invasion will result in death? Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #62
Absolutely I would. She wasn't there, she didn't pull a trigger or stab anyone. Kentonio Mar 2017 #123
You've confused felony murder with the War On Drugs(TM) AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #156
No, it's part of the same puritanical attitutes Kentonio Mar 2017 #195
Self Defense has NOTHING to do with Justice. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #221
Err, I think we're talking at cross purposes here. Kentonio Mar 2017 #223
She participated in the crime. The crime resulted in deaths. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #224
I would disagree fundamentally even if they had gone there and committed murder. Kentonio Mar 2017 #227
Occupational Hazard. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #228
You would disagree even if "they" committed murder? TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #277
There's a reason for 'accessory to' crimes, and this is it. Kentonio Mar 2017 #290
And there is a reason this would not fit any accessory statutes. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #297
They went there ARMED to invade a home. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #295
Look we clearly disagree completely, so let's just leave it at that. Kentonio Mar 2017 #331
Been That Way Forever Though ProfessorGAC Mar 2017 #239
If a driver takes 3 robbers to a bank... Baconator Mar 2017 #355
Yep, they're the only one that commited murder. Kentonio Mar 2017 #400
Holy shit... Baconator Mar 2017 #407
Sure, it's 'nuts' that people should only be held responsible for things they've actually done.. Kentonio Mar 2017 #437
So a concentration camp guard would be blameless? Amishman Apr 2017 #572
I actually find that example a very complicated one to answer. Kentonio Apr 2017 #573
And it wasn't just themselves that were threatened, yagotme Apr 2017 #575
If other cases where this has happened are any guide Jake Stern Mar 2017 #64
And what if it turned out she had been coerced into it? Kentonio Mar 2017 #124
Very real possibility Jake Stern Mar 2017 #246
And then she might have to have gone home to the same area they were all from afterwards Kentonio Mar 2017 #267
Why wouldn't she be able to fight the charge? AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #291
Because as someone said above Kentonio Mar 2017 #438
Then refuse the deal. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #443
Because innocent people are never found guilty? Kentonio Mar 2017 #444
Because of plea bargaining AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #447
From what has been reported, you are way off track. LisaL Mar 2017 #413
It doesn't matter what the details of this case are Kentonio Mar 2017 #439
She drove three kids over to rob a house, and she probably picked the target. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #259
No disrespect intended, but there are a lot of assumptions there. Kentonio Mar 2017 #270
Why would she turn herself in? Not much of an assumption, really. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #273
Felony Murder Rule Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #319
Did she 'have to know that'? Kentonio Mar 2017 #332
Actually some other countries have similar laws Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #335
Actually.. Kentonio Mar 2017 #336
You should reread that Wikipedia link you copied and pasted from Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #337
You are quite correct, I mistakenly though the law had been changed a while ago. Kentonio Mar 2017 #442
"Guess who also has the highest murder rates.." EX500rider Mar 2017 #418
Actually, Australia still has this in legal codes, so it's not just the USA. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #423
She (getaway car driver) got charged with 3 counts of 1st degree murder HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #43
That said, she did okay compared to her passangers Bucky Mar 2017 #86
There's growing support for the AR-15 as a home defense weapon. EL34x4 Mar 2017 #324
There are no warning shots if you break into my house. nt LexVegas Mar 2017 #19
Same here! Come into my house like that and all bets are off. NWCorona Mar 2017 #26
You are supposed say excuse me while I whip this out (while leering at the 3 guys in black) HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #46
This is the nil desperandum Mar 2017 #118
Agreed, so best not to break in in the first place. (nt) bekkilyn Mar 2017 #139
I have a small handgun for self-defense. .. Kittycow Mar 2017 #27
What about your family? Your kids? hack89 Mar 2017 #41
Exiting might be a bad move as well exboyfil Mar 2017 #54
Just me in the back bedroom. Kittycow Mar 2017 #128
I'd likely do the same thing. If I had that kind of weaponry. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #28
Self-defense get the red out Mar 2017 #30
This makes sense nil desperandum Mar 2017 #121
Makes sense to me too bekkilyn Mar 2017 #187
Itsn't gun control Gun Saftey with government mandates. Jim Beard Apr 2017 #469
True - I don't see what is liberal about the idea that criminals should have impunity. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #266
Bang bang Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #32
There is only one moral to this story. Saboburns Mar 2017 #33
I'm tired of hearing accounts of families liquid diamond Mar 2017 #35
Yes. Ditto Metsie Casey Mar 2017 #39
Where do you hear those accounts? Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #72
Their door was the one they found that was unlocked... LexVegas Mar 2017 #74
Ricky Gray intended to murder people an planned as such Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #91
"I'm tired of hearing accounts of families being kidnapped, tortured, raped, and then murdered.... LexVegas Mar 2017 #105
Google the Wichita Massacre Yupster Mar 2017 #305
I know of one that happened in a town I lived in nearby. Jim Beard Apr 2017 #478
"Could be?" TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #281
Bullshit. You think home invasions and murder don't happen in real life? liquid diamond Mar 2017 #148
No one fires warning shots. former9thward Mar 2017 #37
I agree, but... Bucky Mar 2017 #57
If the report is accurate... ADX Mar 2017 #38
The shooting may have been justified, the young man was probably AJT Mar 2017 #44
The real tragedy here GulfCoast66 Mar 2017 #45
If you look at the pictures of the house in news reports, it seems like a really well off area HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #48
No doubt GulfCoast66 Mar 2017 #61
Great post. Kentonio Mar 2017 #191
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #66
Well then these perps were perfect game...figure they would know better. jmg257 Mar 2017 #76
That kind of stereotype about us Southerners DFW Mar 2017 #89
Well that's fine and dandy if I don't share my opinion with rightwingers and just post it on Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #94
DU is publicly indexed on search engines and accessible to view by anyone. And they are watching. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #293
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #107
there are some nasty stereotypes of northerners too Kali Mar 2017 #171
That's not a progressive. nt LexVegas Mar 2017 #116
What utter tripe. nt cwydro Mar 2017 #146
I hope you are making an attempt at a joke. (nt) bekkilyn Mar 2017 #161
You might want to delete that nasty bigotry. Kali Mar 2017 #167
South of what? Oregon? Go Vols Mar 2017 #189
Can you provide the research h data to back that claim? Marengo Mar 2017 #193
Know a guy that shot an intruder and killed him. safeinOhio Mar 2017 #71
That's an actual good point Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #75
Unfortunately good home security costs a lot more than a gun Amishman Mar 2017 #88
My house was broken into HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #95
While better than nothing, the alarm and police response time would not help if you are home Amishman Mar 2017 #100
Exactly HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #104
The problem, as I see it, is what are you going COLGATE4 Mar 2017 #339
Use to be married to a cop safeinOhio Mar 2017 #433
Yeah that makes sense too. Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #96
Many people have both. Alarms are a great "surprise," but the police respond VERY SLOWLY to anneboleyn Mar 2017 #99
I think people have become numb to the alarm noise Jonny Appleseed Mar 2017 #101
I remember the police at that time of increased security systems being installed, responded to Jim Beard Apr 2017 #479
I don't know Yupster Mar 2017 #306
+1. Hoyt Mar 2017 #276
Safe rooms are an Upper Class luxury. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #278
Mine is a closet safeinOhio Mar 2017 #284
A closet isn't a safe room. A safe room requires reinforced walls and door. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #285
Or a closet with safeinOhio Mar 2017 #298
Wooden door I take it. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #323
Bet it would stop safeinOhio Mar 2017 #328
Depends on the door. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #329
How does that goosegun deploy in the closet? Hangingon Apr 2017 #506
I'd love to know where I could get two cameras, two fortified doors, alarms, and a safe room benEzra Mar 2017 #430
"Burglars" says WaPo, but the local story says intruders. Orsino Mar 2017 #78
Laws aren't stupid get the red out Mar 2017 #103
Yes, laws are stupid. Orsino Mar 2017 #113
Day in court get the red out Mar 2017 #115
Yep. Laws are stupid... Orsino Mar 2017 #122
I refer you to my earlier post... Baconator Mar 2017 #363
"Laws are made by people, people who are often stupid." yagotme Apr 2017 #499
There's a pithier version: Orsino Apr 2017 #502
She *recruited* three people, two of them minors, to conduct an armed home invasion robbery. benEzra Mar 2017 #426
Hopefully she turns her life around HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #427
I agree, and she'll certainly have time to reflect. benEzra Mar 2017 #429
Home invaders don't typically get much protection from the law. Your home, your castle. jmg257 Mar 2017 #150
Stories don't say that anything was stolen. Orsino Mar 2017 #163
Nothing stolen? I wonder why. Seems they didn't make it too far passed breaking through the door. jmg257 Mar 2017 #168
The witnesses to anything nefarious are likely dead. Orsino Mar 2017 #192
Yes they are, though the home owners are there too. The AR was suboptimal?! 3-0 would say otherwise. jmg257 Mar 2017 #199
The fact that one of the invaders was injured, but managed to escape and expire outside tells me AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #233
Good point! jmg257 Mar 2017 #238
It tells us no such thing. n/t Orsino Mar 2017 #387
Absent any claim he fired at him from the window, it does. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #404
Absent any such information, it doesn't. n/t Orsino Mar 2017 #415
Firearms in the home should NOT be readily available for home defense? Marengo Mar 2017 #202
That doesn't follow. Orsino Mar 2017 #388
Wrong again. Straw Man Mar 2017 #412
Not wrong at all. Orsino Mar 2017 #414
I'll ask again. Straw Man Mar 2017 #417
That's for pros, and offensive use in home invasion. Orsino Mar 2017 #450
Doubling down on wrong? Straw Man Mar 2017 #453
"Big magazines are a definite plus, if one's goal is to make sure all the casualties are on.... EX500rider Apr 2017 #509
When one doesn't seriously expect a combat situation to develop. Orsino Apr 2017 #529
If someone breaks into your house, your job isn't to go room to room and clear it. benEzra Mar 2017 #428
A rifle is definitely to be preferred at range with open fields of fire. Orsino Mar 2017 #451
I believe these people have extensive training and they.... Jim Beard Apr 2017 #480
Pistols vs. rifles. Straw Man Apr 2017 #482
You are assuming you are the only one at home. What about the children, are Jim Beard Apr 2017 #488
In this case, the man was home alone. Straw Man Apr 2017 #489
This case would seem to suggest the AR-15 is very effective for home/self defense, if the... Marengo Mar 2017 #204
You have no idea what you are talking about. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #232
An AR-15 is a suboptimal weapon for home defense??? HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #240
So, definitely suboptimal. Orsino Mar 2017 #389
Shotguns, which are always recommended, are even worse HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #393
Three criminals against one homeowner TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #283
Not that I wouldnt do the same thing, But this story doesnt pass the smell test..... Old Vet Mar 2017 #211
Yeah, shitty situation. Orsino Mar 2017 #217
So given the actual outcome sarisataka Mar 2017 #220
Self Defense has NOTHING to do with Justice. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #234
Except that killing rather precludes any other form of justice. Orsino Mar 2017 #392
When humanity finds a way to reliably halt an attacker without killing them AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #401
Or reliably raise children to adulthood free of poverty and drug addiction. Orsino Mar 2017 #416
These kids did not appear to suffer from either poverty or drug addiction HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #419
Perhaps neither directly nor indirectly. Orsino Mar 2017 #448
I would say 'useful for situations where holistic solutions are unworkable'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #431
"Lawful" is not the end of a conversation. Orsino Mar 2017 #449
I don't second-guess victims. If the response is lawful, it is by definition moral. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #455
The shooting victims deserve a thought. Orsino Mar 2017 #456
I think they should be second guessed, and a grand jury is the proper venue for that. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #457
There are multiple levels of second-guessing. Orsino Mar 2017 #459
Turns out the getaway driver never heard the phrase 'never talk to the police'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #462
There were no shooting victims in this case sarisataka Mar 2017 #461
I guess no one shot them. Orsino Mar 2017 #464
The victim shot them sarisataka Mar 2017 #465
(There can be more than one victim.) Orsino Apr 2017 #477
I think what you are trying to say is this: yagotme Apr 2017 #564
We just don't know whether or not there was good justification for the shooter's killing 3 people. Orsino Apr 2017 #567
That's pretty much of what I was saying in my post. yagotme Apr 2017 #570
We don't have to side with anyone based on such incomplete information. Orsino Apr 2017 #571
On the information that has been provided, yagotme Apr 2017 #574
Well, heck. I guess if we can't choose sides based on incomplete nformation... Orsino Apr 2017 #576
As I stated in my post, yagotme Apr 2017 #577
Supposedly, at least one of the intruders was armed. Orsino Apr 2017 #579
I heard brass knuckles and a knife were recovered at the scene from the perps, yagotme Apr 2017 #580
In Texas if you are found to be oneshooter Apr 2017 #548
Why? Based on the information available, everything worked as expected. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #229
Now that more facts are out, do you stand by your uninformed opinion? onenote Mar 2017 #381
I have no sympathy for criminals and would do the same if some one broke into my house beachbum bob Mar 2017 #79
The AR makes an excellent HD firearm. ileus Mar 2017 #82
Depends on the rounds used and the training of the owner. NWCorona Mar 2017 #120
The best approach is to shelter in place, call out a verbal warning, and call 911. benEzra Mar 2017 #309
You invade a home that is occupied, you get what you get jeanmarc Mar 2017 #83
No sympathy for the Devil. Break-in, armed gang of thugs----Should WinkyDink Mar 2017 #85
I can't fault the owner nini Mar 2017 #90
The Cheshire, Connecticut home invasion murders changed my ideas about this forever. anneboleyn Mar 2017 #92
I hear you. LexVegas Mar 2017 #108
And there was this one in DC Crabby Appleton Mar 2017 #158
I just provided a link on that story too. That poor family. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #222
This is why we need a database sarisataka Mar 2017 #110
Nonsense. linuxman Mar 2017 #117
I would have done the same Victor_c3 Mar 2017 #119
.223 Remington with civilian loads is about the least penetrating of all effective rounds. benEzra Mar 2017 #310
Warning shots are illegal. Full stop. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #130
I was the victim of a home invasion roughly 9 months ago Heddi Mar 2017 #133
What you describe is my worst nightmare. I have 2 daughters.... LexVegas Mar 2017 #136
we had a firearm Heddi Mar 2017 #137
I am glad you came out ok. LexVegas Mar 2017 #175
Get a good revolver. Those don't jam. NWCorona Mar 2017 #205
we went to the gun store Heddi Mar 2017 #208
Thank you! LOL Lib Mar 2017 #140
This!!!! hamsterjill Mar 2017 #190
I'm glad you and your family are OK. raccoon Mar 2017 #196
Exactly. Heddi Mar 2017 #254
This is my worst nightmare for me and my family... tallahasseedem Mar 2017 #385
So sorry that you had to go through that. I'm glad you are here. 58Sunliner Mar 2017 #253
Glad you survived, hope the trauma gets better. I know a guy who killed three. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #262
are we supposed to be mad at the homeowner, here? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #142
Apparently to some the homeowner was a blood thirsty savage that couldn't wait to kill tammywammy Mar 2017 #144
But, but... GulfCoast66 Mar 2017 #180
Some here seem to think so Egnever Mar 2017 #149
In OK, illegal guns (used in a crime) are as unlawful as illegal knives or brass knuckles HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #169
If 3 masked guys dressed in black smashed through my back door, I'd be inclined Vinca Mar 2017 #153
As would I. greytdemocrat Mar 2017 #357
I hate guns, but what was frogmarch Mar 2017 #155
"Warning shots"? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #157
I believe it's illegal in Michigan to fire warning shots. Kaleva Mar 2017 #198
It's likely illegal in every state, if not explicitly, it would be used as evidence that AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #236
Something seems off. Why would the driver turn herself in? TexasBushwhacker Mar 2017 #159
Sometimes people do it for leniency HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #166
She knows why she dropped the three off...then gets arrested. Not sure she has some secret jmg257 Mar 2017 #172
She probably doesn't want the swat team coming looking for her. NWCorona Mar 2017 #201
She expects the family of at least one of the dead boys to seek revenge. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #263
I'm sure there was evidence connecting them to her Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #321
Defsense against home invasion is one thing, this is murder obamanut2012 Mar 2017 #160
You have a link to that? Report I read says he was shot inside and tried to run out. jmg257 Mar 2017 #164
Link please. tammywammy Mar 2017 #181
Actually reports say that he was shot in the house and collapsed in the driveway. Nt NWCorona Mar 2017 #200
Where did you learn this? ileus Mar 2017 #206
Please don't make up facts. It's bad form. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #237
Well, that was embarrassing Baconator Mar 2017 #371
Masked people had the option of weighing possible outcomes before smashing their way in luvMIdog Mar 2017 #170
Ah, so AR-15s ARE effective for home defense after all. Marengo Mar 2017 #173
Yes Calculating Mar 2017 #183
Well, just as long as you're happy about it. (nt) Paladin Mar 2017 #194
Would be interesting to know how many rounds were fired. Marengo Mar 2017 #215
I believe I read somewhere, 12. nt yagotme Apr 2017 #504
No tears here for the home invaders Calculating Mar 2017 #178
Having a hard time feeling bad about this. Adrahil Mar 2017 #179
I favor gun control. I hate violence. And I don't know all the facts in the case, but... Binkie The Clown Mar 2017 #182
As American as cherry pie. MrScorpio Mar 2017 #188
self-defense-these three punks got themselves killed nt geek tragedy Mar 2017 #197
Wait just a goddamned minute Blue_Tires Mar 2017 #203
It's a game she decided to play...she would have mashed ileus Mar 2017 #209
I thought the law wasn't supposed to rule based Blue_Tires Mar 2017 #213
All of that MAY be useful in her defense at trial. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #242
This has been settled law for a very long time hack89 Mar 2017 #243
Is it always applied, though? Blue_Tires Mar 2017 #247
In most felony murder statutes, the crimes it applies to are limited and defined hack89 Mar 2017 #250
It's up to the prosecution but they generally live to use it Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #320
IIRC, Couch was committing a misdemeanor (driving while intoxicated) when he killed the 4 people. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #334
That is the law in most states GulfCoast66 Mar 2017 #244
Felony murder case law has been established since the 19th century. NWCorona Mar 2017 #219
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #241
Yes, and deservedly so. You have an adult telling kids to go commit a violent entry. Yo_Mama Mar 2017 #264
Felony Murder, a common law principle. NutmegYankee Mar 2017 #274
Yep. leftyladyfrommo Mar 2017 #314
Some reports indicate she was the one who planned the burglary. Petrushka Mar 2017 #382
Yep- it appears she planned it land chose the house Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #384
Various little local news reports here HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #386
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Give the kid a medal! Oneironaut Mar 2017 #207
I am on the home owner's side. Lunabell Mar 2017 #214
Just curious sarisataka Mar 2017 #230
You take your life into your hands when you break and enter. 58Sunliner Mar 2017 #249
They call it "make my day"? louis-t Mar 2017 #251
I'm a big gun control advocate. I won't lose any sleep over what happened in this situation. stevenleser Mar 2017 #268
If you break into my house TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #287
No, I meant the robbers will shoot everyone they see if they believe everyone is armed stevenleser Mar 2017 #296
You are arguing against a position no one here has taken friendly_iconoclast Mar 2017 #299
I'm not arguing and I never said anyone took that position. stevenleser Mar 2017 #308
Burglers don't seem to take things to that type of conclusion Amishman Mar 2017 #395
Might get caught for Burglary is different motivation than "might be shot dead" stevenleser Mar 2017 #396
If we're not secure in our own homes, we've lost everything bucolic_frolic Mar 2017 #279
I hope some folks in here will be inspired by this thread Morris64 Mar 2017 #292
I live in a high property crime area marlakay Mar 2017 #300
Broken Arrow isnt remotely rural and is a rich town by Olahoma standards. Kacy Mar 2017 #302
Some decades ago, two robbers attempted to break into my grandmother's apartment. Tatiana Mar 2017 #307
Better Call Saul exboyfil Mar 2017 #326
This is a very strange story. underthematrix Mar 2017 #327
The deceased have been identified EL34x4 Mar 2017 #330
Max Cook, the driver's 16 year old boyfriend describes himself thusly on FB HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #340
Later articles say he is 18. Some say 19. LisaL Mar 2017 #379
Yep, 19 as of late HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #380
She already has 3 kids. LisaL Mar 2017 #406
Link to BBC nitpicker Mar 2017 #333
Looks like the getaway driver might be a pedophile also HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #338
Shooter was a college student studying criminal justice HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #341
I knew someone who was killed by home intruders LibraLiz1973 Mar 2017 #342
All were shot once each inside, one was able to get outside HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #343
Driver seems to have 3 kids under 3 years old HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #344
New details- 911 audio released and details on the females involvement Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #372
More interesting than that HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #373
I didn't see that detail until you mentioned it and I went looking Lee-Lee Mar 2017 #375
They have identified the person that the driver called from McDonald's (where she went after) HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #420
If you choose to read his FB, past all the girls mourning their friends and him cursing out others HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #422
He is not the brightest star in the firmament. EllieBC Mar 2017 #452
well I don't think people should have AR 15s unless they are police Abu Pepe Mar 2017 #424
Here's the thing. Straw Man Mar 2017 #441
he could have defended his home with a pump or semi auto 12 G W/ #1 shot Abu Pepe Mar 2017 #454
Shotgun myths. Straw Man Mar 2017 #458
Semi shotgun is less reliable than an AR15 unless you spend 3x the cost of an AR15 HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #460
An AR or a Tavor/AUG/Mini-14 are centerfire .22's; a 12-gauge is .729. Big difference in recoil. benEzra Mar 2017 #463
As others have said, you are pretty much 100% wrong Lee-Lee Apr 2017 #467
I think pellet gun would have been sufficient against these guys, who supposedly had a knife and Hoyt Apr 2017 #476
Lethal weapons. Straw Man Apr 2017 #481
No gun advocate, I'm claiming there was no evidence they were in that house to kill anyone. Hoyt Apr 2017 #486
Would you be willing to stake your life on that? Straw Man Apr 2017 #490
Didn't read all that BS. If you are going to "impute" the worst to anyone walking down the street, Hoyt Apr 2017 #496
Anyone walking down the street? Not at all. Straw Man Apr 2017 #503
Because I read the first part and though it was BS. Fact is, the son will not be charged Hoyt Apr 2017 #507
You feel justified in commenting on things you haven't read. Straw Man Apr 2017 #512
I guarantee, there is nothing a gun fancier is going to say that I haven't heard hundreds of times Hoyt Apr 2017 #518
Nice dodge. Straw Man Apr 2017 #525
I agree. Seems as we have advocates for AR15's since it killed all of them instead of Jim Beard Apr 2017 #487
A pistol reduces mortality and incapacitates rather than kills? Marengo Apr 2017 #510
What was the knife for, Hoyt? linuxman Apr 2017 #492
If it was in his pocket, it could have been a boy scout knife. I suspect most of the Hoyt Apr 2017 #497
Yeah. And the brass knuckles were probably just there in case the robbers linuxman Apr 2017 #500
I bet some of our gunners here carry similar implements in their urban warfare pants. Hoyt Apr 2017 #501
Did you carry a knife while committing robbery? Marengo Apr 2017 #513
A machete, it made gunners mess their pants and cower. Hoyt Apr 2017 #519
How did that make you feel? Straw Man Apr 2017 #527
Since it never happened, can't say. How does fondling your guns, strapping one on to go to Hoyt Apr 2017 #528
Oh, so you lied? Or was it an attempt at humor? Straw Man Apr 2017 #540
Clever...I if that were true, you would most likely not be in any condition to conspicuously Marengo Apr 2017 #538
If someone has a knife and you have a pellet gun Codeine Apr 2017 #494
Not if the knife isn't in their hand and they are looking to kill me. That does not appear Hoyt Apr 2017 #498
I'm not a gun person. Codeine Apr 2017 #521
So you are OK with several policemen shooting a mentally ill person at 20 feet with a knife when Hoyt Apr 2017 #522
Of course I'm not. But I'm intelligent enough Codeine Apr 2017 #523
Actually, they are quite similar and your typical gunner will support the shooter in both cases. Hoyt Apr 2017 #524
Excellent points Hoyt! I have been wanting to make the same comparison but got caught up in other th Jim Beard Apr 2017 #546
Good Point, if they were not expecting anyone, they would not have the knife out rather Jim Beard Apr 2017 #547
If they were not expecting anyone sarisataka Apr 2017 #551
They wanted to be like ZORRO. Jim Beard Apr 2017 #553
No one has ever been killed with a knife? Marengo Apr 2017 #505
Let me guess, you are a gun fancier? Knife, rock, fists, scary people, etc., are all Hoyt Apr 2017 #508
Was Tiffany Ferguson tickled to death in Nashville Tennessee? Looks like she was knifed to death... Marengo Apr 2017 #511
Typical NRA BS. 22 people were killed by a knife in China. It doesn't matter, if there were no crime Hoyt Apr 2017 #517
In other words, knife armed thieves are not harmless. I appreciate your acknowledgement... Marengo Apr 2017 #537
People with perception problems should not be toting guns in public. Hoyt Apr 2017 #539
Who are you referring to? Marengo Apr 2017 #542
"Need to" or "want to"...what's amazing is you can jmg257 Apr 2017 #552
Every time I see the subject line of this thread in GD, I immediately tblue37 Mar 2017 #432
The driver did an interview for the news HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #445
There seems to be an argument that one should use the minimum amount of force needed HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #466
The only thing that really seems legitimately debateable is the charge against the driver Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #468
I do. Sometimes society must ensure laws for all people for the greater good. Fluke a Snooker Apr 2017 #470
What jail sentence sarisataka Apr 2017 #471
... Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #475
"see video below"- a clip from Trading Places? Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #474
So, what's the problem? The kids just wanted to liberalhistorian Apr 2017 #516
I hate myself for having to say this, but the laws are written to protect the homeowner's napi21 Apr 2017 #526
Out of curiosity... Orrex Apr 2017 #530
On the same note Lee-Lee Apr 2017 #531
Is it the same note, though? Orrex Apr 2017 #532
I'm talking about the overall reaction not just one specific aspect Lee-Lee Apr 2017 #534
Ah, I see. Orrex Apr 2017 #536
Exactly the opposite HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #558
Yes indeed. They're portrayed as good, fresh-faced kids who made a bad choice Orrex Apr 2017 #559
Is there a specific black teen that you are speaking of? HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #560
Trayvon Martin is the most obvious example Orrex Apr 2017 #561
I totally get why the son "smoked" the intruders steve2470 Apr 2017 #541
What we know: a timeline of the Wagoner County triple homicide steve2470 Apr 2017 #543
Thanks for posting the newspaper link. I had mentioned earlier Jim Beard Apr 2017 #549
Just because its your property doesn't mean anything.................................. Jim Beard Apr 2017 #550
It depends on state law Locutusofborg Apr 2017 #554
Oklahoma law Locutusofborg Apr 2017 #555
They got it right on this one.................. Jim Beard Apr 2017 #556
No Charges Locutusofborg Apr 2017 #557
The homeowner will almost certainly be going to jail Lurks Often Apr 2017 #562
Correct. yagotme Apr 2017 #565
Textbook example of doing everything wrong in that example Lee-Lee Apr 2017 #568
"Warning shots" land somewhere Recursion Apr 2017 #569
I'm sure the shooter will be hailed as a hero and louis-t Apr 2017 #578
I don't know about "hero", yagotme Apr 2017 #581
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