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In reply to the discussion: Post removed [View all]

ismnotwasm

(41,967 posts)
58. What the fuck
Tue Nov 21, 2017, 12:27 PM
Nov 2017

Last edited Tue Nov 21, 2017, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)

You are assuming women have more power than we do.

I went to party—not to get laid. No matter what I wore, or how I danced. There were ALWAYS guys that wanted to obscure the line between flirting and sexual assault. Flirting is fun, and is a way to gauge response “does he/she like me? Fun, and acceptable.

My own father “grabbed my butt”—he thought it was funny when I’d get angry. What do you suggest I did back then? Oh, that’s right, I was under age. I should have called the cops, right? Boy, I fucked that up, Didn’t I. Maybe I shouldn’t have run away and hit the streets and learned entirely new set of survival skills.

You are aware that women can’t leave their drinks unattended? That’s the self protective culture that has arisen. We carry our keys in our hands walking to the door, we get escorts, we get dogs, we get security systems, we take self defense courses we get weapons. If we work in a strip clubs, there are always bouncers for protection against men. If we prostitute on the streets we are forgotten and unnamed, and the crimes against us ignored. If we are ambitious in the business world, we run into sexual pro quid pro situation for sexual favors. We are touched, brushed against, grabbed, leaned over, threatened. Assaulted

As I type this, there is a woman feeling terrified and helpless because she doesn’t know what to do. Her boss just shoved his tongue down her throat and she’s terrified of losing her job, she’s not interested in him that way. Nothing to do with clubbing and everything to do with our culture.

You know what Julian Assange is accused of? After having consensual sex with women, they awoke to find him at it again, inside them, without a condom—with no consent asked or given. And He would walk in an American court. Swedish law is quite different.

A woman alone is always in danger because she a woman alone. We are always frightened. Not the mind numbing kind of fear, the look over your shoulder kind, because a stalker or an assault is always a possibility.

I’m sick of women HAVING to be “on-guard” because hooking up in some—not all but some minds is a predator/prey situation

And then there this—a real attitude that I’ve seen here recently as yesterday to discredit the stories of women

Post removed [View all] Post removed Nov 2017 OP
hop hop hop were places just to go for music and some drinks for me. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2017 #1
Spent a lot of my time barhopping for many years... TreasonousBastard Nov 2017 #2
"Then in the 80s we started asking some serious questions about the old ways." Javaman Nov 2017 #4
People still went to bars...I never was one for one night stands anyway... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #11
That was part of it, but back then it was assumed to be in the gay bars... TreasonousBastard Nov 2017 #23
I notice you're from LI Javaman Nov 2017 #66
Never knew you were a fellow Islander ... NanceGreggs Nov 2017 #73
Bayshore! Javaman Nov 2017 #79
I didnt go to Bayshore High NanceGreggs Nov 2017 #120
the "old ways" were the "new ways" only 10? 15? years earlier shanny Nov 2017 #151
Sure. Dulcinea Nov 2017 #95
Late 1980's all the fun was killed by AIDS Jim Beard Nov 2017 #123
No shots from me. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2017 #3
Nope. I've never found frequenting bars to be a good way to meet people. MineralMan Nov 2017 #5
Sometimes shit happens... kentuck Nov 2017 #8
No, being forcibly held down and/or beaten is a violent act...usually rape follows...also date Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #16
If you decide to walk out and parade your wiener if front of someone bullwinkle428 Nov 2017 #17
I disagree. Jim Beard Nov 2017 #124
Well, it's certainly an "aggressive" act. MineralMan Nov 2017 #19
There's an inherent threat. gollygee Nov 2017 #113
I went to clubs and the entire point of going was to meet men...I was not one for one night stands.. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #6
That is refreshing to hear... kentuck Nov 2017 #10
Remember 'If I told you, you had a nice body would you hold it against me?" Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #29
Nope I picked up my hubs in a bar...and we are still together...hehe Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #118
Yep!!! Agree!!! And it was a lot of fun!!! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2017 #34
It was. We had a Bar called the Dial Tone that had phone so you could call other tables...we had a Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #53
I loved music, I loved bands, I loved drinking wine! adigal Nov 2017 #101
Me too...I love wine...I used to drink Vodka and Tonic or wine spritzer after I figured out that Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #115
It has nothing to do with puritanical, Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #114
I don't recall any guy ever asking if he could kiss me...sex sure...you have to consent...but some Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #116
I am not required to tell someone, "No, you can't Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #121
It was fun Jim Beard Nov 2017 #125
You obviously consented gollygee Nov 2017 #134
I was ineligible to do any bar hopping until 2001 crazycatlady Nov 2017 #7
We used to go there to have fun with our friends nini Nov 2017 #9
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #18
What other places should she stay away from? LanternWaste Nov 2017 #36
That is not what was meant...by the poster. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #43
NO... WOMEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO WHEREVER THEY WANT nini Nov 2017 #55
Thank you. If a guy can't control himself, then it's his fault, not the woman's. madinmaryland Nov 2017 #109
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #130
Nice. nini Nov 2017 #158
Got it. Women who go places men are free to go are responsible Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #112
Maybe I was a prude, but I just found that to me just so tacky. SCRUBDASHRUB Nov 2017 #12
We never...left a drink on the table. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #32
Yep!!! Leaving drinks on tables and coming back is dangerous IMO too! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2017 #37
It really is. There are sick freaks out there and not all of them go to bars either. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #46
It was mostly for the drinks Madam Mossfern Nov 2017 #13
Perhaps if we truly earned an equal wage, the cheap drink nights wouldn't be attended Deb Nov 2017 #14
That is a good point. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #33
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Iggo Nov 2017 #15
I agree. kentuck Nov 2017 #20
I used to do that with friends. It was usually to enjoy some live music (or a good dj back in the Arkansas Granny Nov 2017 #21
My female roommate and I used to do a bit of this and sometimes we'd OldHippieChick Nov 2017 #22
What the fuck? Did you really mean to say sexual assault is the woman's fault? mythology Nov 2017 #24
What is your definition of "assault"? kentuck Nov 2017 #30
I consider that harassment... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #39
A 15 yr old rode his bicycle in front of 12 yr old me, stopped and grabbed my crotch uppityperson Nov 2017 #49
I am going to respond to this with the 2016 Arkansas Code Annotated. moriah Nov 2017 #90
I'll just stay in red Texas Jim Beard Nov 2017 #133
Or, just not grab at random people at bars... moriah Nov 2017 #142
I like Texas Jim Beard Nov 2017 #144
Looked. In Texas you have to actually touch anus. moriah Nov 2017 #145
12 year old had better keep their hands off my anus Jim Beard Nov 2017 #152
I am just surprised how many times the word is in the penal code there. moriah Nov 2017 #153
Maybe they intended for it to be Angus, its a common mistake with Texas Aggies. Jim Beard Nov 2017 #155
You're still blaming the victim - Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #110
+1 eShirl Nov 2017 #44
Never went alone (other women); went to socialize have a drink and maybe dance a few times hlthe2b Nov 2017 #25
Bar hopping aside, Skidmore Nov 2017 #26
Yes, most of us understand but many don't seem to know the difference. Thats why I have been posting Jim Beard Nov 2017 #136
I didn't address barhopping but Skidmore Nov 2017 #165
No. Tracer Nov 2017 #27
I just went with a girlfriends bdamomma Nov 2017 #28
Walking down the street, using the subway, working to earn a wage. SandyZ Nov 2017 #31
Of course not...we go for the same reason guys do ...to have fun...maybe meet someone... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #35
That's obvious if you view women as full human beings and not just potential sexual partners. nt gollygee Nov 2017 #140
I did plenty of bar-hopping in the 80s and 90s... Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #38
My girlfriends and I went out to bars in the late fifties and early 60's. appleannie1943 Nov 2017 #40
Nope... defacto7 Nov 2017 #41
Bar hopped in college in the 70s cilla4progress Nov 2017 #42
Psst, whats your number? LOL I ask you because I figured you have a sense of humor!!! Jim Beard Nov 2017 #137
Ha cilla4progress Nov 2017 #139
Oy. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2017 #45
I went for the live music. Yonnie3 Nov 2017 #47
Answer: no brooklynite Nov 2017 #48
Back in the day, I once saw a young lady fill up her handbag with food from the happy hour buffet. Hoyt Nov 2017 #50
Atlanta....early to mid-70's.. kentuck Nov 2017 #51
The girls I met were turned off Beakybird Nov 2017 #52
Back in the mid 60s went to bars with girlfriends dhol82 Nov 2017 #54
I did my share of bar hopping and worked in a few. I don't think men who make passes OregonBlue Nov 2017 #56
Totally agree LeftInTX Nov 2017 #81
Met My Wife At The Hip Disco In Town ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #57
happy for you, I never had any long-lasting good luck at any discos steve2470 Nov 2017 #86
What the fuck ismnotwasm Nov 2017 #58
Spot on. Skidmore Nov 2017 #61
+1000 Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #65
... greatauntoftriplets Nov 2017 #67
+1000! mcar Nov 2017 #74
Thank you for expressing this so clearly. nt brer cat Nov 2017 #76
Thank you! DesertRat Nov 2017 #82
THIS sheshe2 Nov 2017 #92
Quid pro quo (sorry, I'm a Latin nerd). Excellent post! anneboleyn Nov 2017 #98
+1000 Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #111
I read the OP as about the empowerment of women. If a woman goes into a cattle market type Doodley Nov 2017 #148
There's no sincere way to read this: Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #161
I am giving the OP the benefit of the doubt and don't share your interpretation. Doodley Nov 2017 #162
+1000 chia Nov 2017 #135
Yep, pretty depressing safeinOhio Nov 2017 #59
Just hope we don't start taking souvenirs every time we have to "grab our coats." moriah Nov 2017 #60
Because men just cant help themselves? Oneironaut Nov 2017 #62
+1000 DesertRat Nov 2017 #91
Thank you. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #117
Agree Beringia Nov 2017 #128
I have enjoyed them Jim Beard Nov 2017 #141
I did in college and afterward in the mid/late 80's and early 90's smirkymonkey Nov 2017 #63
yes I went to bars and clubs ebbie15644 Nov 2017 #64
I bar hopped for the food Mosby Nov 2017 #68
We called them meat markets Drahthaardogs Nov 2017 #69
What the fuckedy fuck mercuryblues Nov 2017 #70
Yes. That's what I read in there too. If I wanted a two for one drink I am no longer Squinch Nov 2017 #103
No. Never. fierywoman Nov 2017 #71
I cannot believe what I'm reading here today mcar Nov 2017 #72
It's kind of inevitable. A lot of women are raising their voices about sexual harassment, and Squinch Nov 2017 #105
And that we women need to take responsibility mcar Nov 2017 #122
Especially if we go to two for one drink nights! Squinch Nov 2017 #126
Wow! Just wow! So much for enthusiastic consent. n/t retread Nov 2017 #75
I always went with my friends - 70s and early 80s LeftInTX Nov 2017 #77
back in the day, I went with friends Skittles Nov 2017 #78
Even if you had been gollygee Nov 2017 #83
correct Skittles Nov 2017 #85
Going to the bar to meet guys is not the same as consenting to sexual contact gollygee Nov 2017 #80
yep, wasted too much time and money in the 70's and 80's in bars steve2470 Nov 2017 #84
Went to happy hours when I was in my 20s (in the 80s) TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #87
Interesting OP/thread. H2O Man Nov 2017 #88
can I ask, how did the bar fights get started ? steve2470 Nov 2017 #89
The longest one H2O Man Nov 2017 #99
thanks for the recollection! nt steve2470 Nov 2017 #100
#BlameTheVictim. Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #93
You took the words out of my mouth! 50 Shades Of Blue Nov 2017 #94
I'm so sick of the, "It's up to the woman to set the boundaries," Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #106
So am I - especially when commenters courageously invite martyrdom for rationalizing 50 Shades Of Blue Nov 2017 #119
If some powerful old guy invites you to his home, you should assume that is what he is after yurbud Nov 2017 #96
GenXer. Only went to a couple of bars, and that was in college w/fellow college students in late 90s anneboleyn Nov 2017 #97
This is ridiculous. a la izquierda Nov 2017 #102
Various people I'll not name, concerned I was still a virgin in the later '70 and early '80s... hunter Nov 2017 #104
Yes, I did. Other guys asked me a few times where I learned my pick-up lines. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2017 #107
no hopping. just went to the one club for the night. KG Nov 2017 #108
Sure, I went to some ladies nights back in the 80s - with groups of women. LisaM Nov 2017 #127
I was a jazz drummer around NYC area and Memphis. pangaia Nov 2017 #129
I am really disgusted that anyone here fells that way. Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #131
Did not bar hop. I was a damn goodie two shoes. Doreen Nov 2017 #132
I strongly disagree!! tavernier Nov 2017 #138
Ah, common sense rules. Jim Beard Nov 2017 #143
I'm disgusted and FLOORED Texasgal Nov 2017 #146
Yep gollygee Nov 2017 #147
I'm not defending the OP, but I think you may not be understanding his point. I see it as Doodley Nov 2017 #149
How do you get that out of the OP? Texasgal Nov 2017 #150
I addressed that misconception being taught by society in my reply. moriah Nov 2017 #157
Yes, it is vile. This OP is promoting criminal behavior. yardwork Nov 2017 #168
It's all about context and everyone is reacting to your op based on different OhioBlue Nov 2017 #154
A good and well reasoned post. This is they type of common sense I like to read. Jim Beard Nov 2017 #156
Um, well, actually, no, I didn't DFW Nov 2017 #159
Wow Solly Mack Nov 2017 #160
yes, yes, yes, and yes lillypaddle Nov 2017 #163
Not sure who this pertains to but Kevin Spacey's Rod Stewart-impersonating brother ucrdem Nov 2017 #164
What? It's women's fault if men assault us? WHAT? yardwork Nov 2017 #166
"Happy Hour at the No Means Yes Bar & Grill." I've seen that movie. betsuni Nov 2017 #167
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