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karynnj

(59,500 posts)
38. However, the right central part of the media treated Iran/Contra as done for US good
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 11:49 AM
Dec 2017

GHWB was able to claim he heard nothing on the illegal Contra support. When confronted with proof he attended meetings where it was discussed, he claimed that those discussions must have happened when he went to the men's room. Yet it was the economy starting to fail and his raising a tax that were said to lead to his defense - not Iran/Contra. In fact, I do not remember either Clinton or Perot bringing it up. (I tried to read the NYT daily then, but I was a working mother of three kids under 7 - so I could have missed something.) Before he left office, he pardoned 5 people who were indicted because of illegal things they did.

Yet, both Oliver North, who led the effort to arm the Contras after Congress made that illegal, and Elliot Abrams are pundits given platforms to speak. North, who should have gone to jail, is a right wing hero and has been treated as such by Fox News and every outlet to its right. Abrahms writes op-eds and is constantly quoted, especially on the Mid east and Iran -- where is past of being pardoned by GHWB is never included in the footnote. ( When the Boston Globe some time in Obama's first term, quoted Abrahms on something John Kerry said in the SFRC, Kerry's chief of staff responded in a letter by starting that when he is quoted on anything involving Kerry, it should be noted that he got a GHWB pardon to save him from charges stemming from lying to Kerry when Abrahms was called to the SFRC . However, the point is even the MSM quotes him as one of several pundits.

My own view is that unlike Watergate, Monica, or Trump's many illegal actions, Iran/Contra involved covert actions of the United States where US opinion was really mixed - at least on the Contra issue. Even many Democrats would have wanted the US to provide arms and material assistance to the Contras, who were portrayed as fighting communism - rather than as the right wing thugs they were. On the other issues, you could argue that it was the PRESIDENT and his people who were said to have done something wrong -- rather than it being something done in the world in the name of the United States. (I KNOW that watergate actually exposed Nixon illegally using much of the US intelligence and law enforcement, but the way people saw it was only on obstruction of justice to end the investigation.)

With Iran/Contra, I suspect it is the acceptance of covert actions and a rejection of past Congressional limits placed on it. Similarly, remember how there was almost no Congressional support to even investigate the lies that led us into Iraq. One possibility is that there might be enough people on both sides who might not be willing to call those actions illegal - often limiting themselves to saying they are unwise or that they opposed them.

Could be a circulatory problem to his head Jarqui Dec 2017 #1
That would be the guy who proclaimed Trump is healthiest individual ever to run for presidency? LisaL Dec 2017 #2
Good point. I mean a real, competent doctor. Jarqui Dec 2017 #4
Could be that his tiny brain is just rotting. nt leftyladyfrommo Dec 2017 #23
I think you're on to something ... :) Jarqui Dec 2017 #24
I can't stand to even look at the asshole. leftyladyfrommo Dec 2017 #26
I'm a little younger but still remember the reverence we had for Jarqui Dec 2017 #39
Agreed! pandr32 Dec 2017 #61
My thoughts exactly Katinfl Dec 2017 #107
There aren't any redeeming qualities in trump or his maggot family disalitervisum Dec 2017 #109
Probably. Too much festering. lunatica Dec 2017 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author leftyladyfrommo Dec 2017 #27
Could it be Soxfan58 Dec 2017 #41
Just a stupid asshole gets my vote. At minimum, he's that. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2017 #47
Clearly he has always been a stupid asshole. BUT Chemisse Dec 2017 #72
!!! Alice11111 Dec 2017 #100
Well that would make sense... KTM Dec 2017 #69
If he signs a horrific Rethug tax bill avebury Dec 2017 #3
Where in the Constitution is the President required to be competent? karynnj Dec 2017 #20
Nah, he's just plain old dumb. Low IQ. Sad. NT doodsaq Dec 2017 #5
It's worse than that marylandblue Dec 2017 #6
I see a difference since the campaign. JohnnyRingo Dec 2017 #35
He's always been a horse's ass, but if you listen to older interviews of him The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #46
Tread lightly. MontanaMama Dec 2017 #7
Same here. joshdawg Dec 2017 #8
I've had this same discussions off-board with others. Efilroft Sul Dec 2017 #10
However, the right central part of the media treated Iran/Contra as done for US good karynnj Dec 2017 #38
Cenk over at TYT called it a month ago: Saviolo Dec 2017 #13
sounds pretty plausible to me bdamomma Dec 2017 #28
I'm convinced.... getagrip_already Dec 2017 #50
You might be on to something there lunatica Dec 2017 #30
Experts would have to give testimony to prove it. Duppers Dec 2017 #37
not really.... getagrip_already Dec 2017 #52
Wait. You're talking removal from office via the 25th Duppers Dec 2017 #70
I agree, that will be the defense, and absolve him and everyone else. Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #63
Have thought of this myself. Its a safe way for #45 to slip out of the noose. VOX Dec 2017 #87
Exactly correct disalitervisum Dec 2017 #110
It doesn't matter, any more. Even the Dems aren't calling for him to resign or questioning health. Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #9
Given that hes always been a self-hating, narcissistic, racist asshole MrScorpio Dec 2017 #11
he's a sick sonofabitch alright. spanone Dec 2017 #12
Ronnie Reagan had Alzheimer's when he was POTUS and he did just fine Farmer-Rick Dec 2017 #14
Bush Sr had Graves disease when he started the mideast war. Bush jr was drunk Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #32
Hyperthyroidism can cause you to be restless or irritable, focused uppityperson Dec 2017 #59
Grave's disease thyroid storm can produce psychotic like symptoms Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #64
Thyroid storm is quickly treated or kills you. uppityperson Dec 2017 #92
I think it took the docs awhile to make the dx. It was bizarre since Barbara Bush Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #93
Can a lawyer weigh in here? rainin Dec 2017 #15
It would have to be bad enough to support a diminished capacity or insanity defense. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #49
If he goes downhill and gets diagnosed with an incapacitating disease, rainin Dec 2017 #57
Maybe not. There's legal authority that says that a person has to understand The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #62
"Most sufferers start to show signs of the illness at age 65." L. Coyote Dec 2017 #16
I want a real doctor to check him out mercuryblues Dec 2017 #17
oh great lillypaddle Dec 2017 #18
I think he has dementia but slurred speech looked like dentures to me Cicada Dec 2017 #19
No way anyone near Trump's level of wealth (real or exaggerated) would be wearing dentures. maddiemom Dec 2017 #36
That is exactly what I said. True Blue American Dec 2017 #43
Welcome to D.U. Points for using the correct "too." maddiemom Dec 2017 #53
remember he is a germaphobe yellowdogintexas Dec 2017 #73
He's an extremely vain man, so you'd think he'd want better dental replacements The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #81
Extremely vain man???? llmart Dec 2017 #85
Sometimes people don't "see" what they really look like. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #86
My late MIL had Alzheimer's ................. ProudMNDemocrat Dec 2017 #21
So did both my MIL True Blue American Dec 2017 #45
He could have full blown kuru, the cult would still stand behind him. ck4829 Dec 2017 #22
Somehow I cant see him eating brains in the South Pacific dhol82 Dec 2017 #105
Also symptoms of long time "diet pill (amphetamine)" abuse. Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #29
I know he spoke way better on the campaign. JohnnyRingo Dec 2017 #31
For a businessman bucolic_frolic Dec 2017 #33
He's always been an a**hole Wwcd Dec 2017 #34
He acts more like a cokehead. C_U_L8R Dec 2017 #40
Someone mentioned the constant sniffing. True Blue American Dec 2017 #48
Of course this is predicted on the idea paleotn Dec 2017 #42
Rofl.. Wwcd Dec 2017 #54
He was never very intelligent LiberalBrooke Dec 2017 #44
+100 Duppers Dec 2017 #71
But....Was He Always This Way Me. Dec 2017 #51
A normal person could never pull off the cruelty he has Wwcd Dec 2017 #55
Little Good It Did Us Me. Dec 2017 #66
He spoke better zipplewrath Dec 2017 #58
Very Interesting Me. Dec 2017 #65
Like I said, the country will suffer unti his donors get a return on their investment. Wwcd Dec 2017 #74
You Are So Right Me. Dec 2017 #76
So right, ME. No one walks away from this. Wwcd Dec 2017 #80
+ 1 Million Me. Dec 2017 #90
Watch early videos of him. He was quite articulate. Kaleva Dec 2017 #75
If I learn that that fucker has actual dementia or Alzheimer's... Orrex Dec 2017 #56
Explains the lunacy. sarcasmo Dec 2017 #60
No Alzheimer's!!!! aeromanKC Dec 2017 #67
George III was widely believed to be insane... Rollo Dec 2017 #68
There are always many other hidden players, aren't there. Wwcd Dec 2017 #78
Compare today to this 1980 interview Kaleva Dec 2017 #77
he had a comb-over then SummerSnow Dec 2017 #106
OP, something's DEFINITELY ... LenaBaby61 Dec 2017 #79
I believe this might be his people's escape Iliyah Dec 2017 #82
Classic Rectal-Cranial Inversion. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2017 #83
Or Faux pas Dec 2017 #84
Not mentioned is the time #45 deplaned and couldnt find the prez limo... VOX Dec 2017 #88
Trump has been showing signs of senility for some time Gothmog Dec 2017 #89
There is much we do not know about tRump. That is by design. Grammy23 Dec 2017 #91
Alex, what is Syphilitic dementia for $500? MyNameGoesHere Dec 2017 #94
Also, "dry mouth" may be the side effect... AntiFascist Dec 2017 #95
Runs in the family - his klanpappy Fred was known to have dementia at the end Adenoid_Hynkel Dec 2017 #96
I don't buy it. He's just crook and un-American right-winger. rockfordfile Dec 2017 #97
Trump's operatives started planting this seed at the beginning of the year bathroommonkey76 Dec 2017 #98
Perhaps the plan is to use it as a get out of jail free card? ecstatic Dec 2017 #104
Throw out the insanity or mental sickness card, he's gonna play it like a lifeline from prosecution ancianita Dec 2017 #99
He has asshole disease. XRubicon Dec 2017 #101
Didn't see it, but heard it on XM mchill Dec 2017 #102
I don't think it's Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's affects short term memory ecstatic Dec 2017 #103
I've thought since before the election that he is mentally ill. July Dec 2017 #108
Just another con. Everything he does is a con. Everything he says is a lie. disalitervisum Dec 2017 #111
Pin This! Dalton Mac Dec 2017 #112
his tweets will help convict him populistdriven Dec 2017 #113
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