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In reply to the discussion: Report: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage' [View all]Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)119. Wow, you've really bought a lot disinformation about Chavez!
"He led a failed military coup..."
Yup, but that was, a) after the government had shot and killed hundreds of poor protestors, and b) he spent two years in prison for his part in it, and during his imprisonment became a huge popular hero and was subsequently elected president. You left out the context.
"...his first act was to try to eliminate term limits so he could stay in office forever..."
Huh? He was elected in 1998 (for a short term prior to the vote on the new constitution), then again in 2000, then won the USAID-funded recall election in 2004, then won the 2006 regular election. In 2007, the National Assembly put a package of 69 amendments to the constitution on the ballot for a vote of the people. One of those amendments was to rescind the two-term limit on the president. The voters voted it all down--probably because it was too complicated (too many different issues), and probably also because the rightwing Catholic prelates opposed the amendment giving equal rights to women. The package of amendments lost very narrowly, but the Chavez government accepted the results and moved on. They then put a single issue on the ballot--rescinding term limits on the president and on governors. The voters voted FOR it. (This settled the question of whether the term limit amendment caused the 69-amendment package to fail. It did not. The voters wanted to lift term limits.)
This, a) was not Chavez's "first act" as president; b) was not "Chavez's act" at all, but the act of Venezuelan voters, and c) by no means insures that Chavez "could stay in office forever"--he has to run again, and be judged by the voters again (just like our FDR who ran for and won four terms in office).
"...he established a private army loyal only to him."
The Venezuelan military is not "private." It's like any other army in a democratic country, loyal to the constitution and under the command of the elected president. A small number of military officers participated in the rightwing coup d'tat attempt in 2002. They were fired--as they well should have been.
Where on earth are you getting these ideas from?
"...he holds up Castro and Cuba as a model (to) emulate. He is not a supporter of democracy."
And George Bush Jr. held up crime boss Alvaro Uribe, 'president' of Colombia, as a model of freedom and awarded him the U.S. Medal of Freedom, evidently considering the murders of hundreds of trade unionists, teachers, community activists, peasants, journalists and others to be the ultimate in "freedom." Where is your condemnation of THAT?
There is no question that Chavez and many other Latin Americans admire Cuba. Does this make them non-democratic? What they mostly admire is the Cuban medical system and the Cuban educational system--both among the best in the world. Latin America is unanimous on recognizing Cuba's communist government as the legitimate government of Cuba. But none of these countries, including Venezuela, has abandoned its own democratic system. Chavez stands for election, in a fair and honest system; he obeys the constitution and the law; he has worked democratically through the National Assembly and other institutions to improve the lot of the poor in Venezuela, and to expand citizen participation and the inclusion of previously excluded groups. It is absurd and wrong to say that "he is not a supporter of democracy." He very much is.
Of your other rightwing 'talking points' (the blather about inflation, etc., are giveaways), the one about Greece is the most rightwing of all. The lesson of the "New Deal" is that government MUST spend "more than they have" in a situation of massive misrule by the rich, such as occurred in the Great Crash of '29, and today, by the Great Looting that has been inflicted on the U.S. and Europe by transglobal banksters, the very rich and war profiteers. Government MUST put money into the hands of the poor in these circumstances. The poor will re-start the economy because they have to spend their money--on food, on clothing, on housing, on transportation, on medicine, on education. It is absolutely wrong (self-defeating, stupid) to tighten money in this situation and to fire masses of government workers. Wrong and crazy.
In any case, Venezuela is not hard up. The Chavez government amassed huge cash reserves during their highest economic growth period (2003 to 2008), and used those reserves very wisely to cushion the Venezuelan people and their economy against the crimes of "Wall Street" and the Bush Junta. Venezuela rode out the initial shocks very well and very quickly recovered. Why? Because the government did NOT curtail government spending. Also, wages have kept pace with inflation and unemployment is very low. There are REASONS that the UN Economic Commission gave Venezuela such high marks. You are ignoring them all.
There are problems in Venezuela as there are in every country. You--like the corpo-fascist media and like the rightwing here and there--ONLY MENTION THE PROBLEMS. This is highly distorted. And I hope this is because you have been so very disinformed by the Corporate Media, which does the very same thing--headlines whatever problems they can point to, or invent, and NEVER MENTIONS WHY Venezuelans have voted for the Chavez government, over several elections, by big margins, in a fair and honest election system. NEVER do they mention the millions of people who now have educational opportunities, free medical care, jobs, good wages and a positive view of their lives and their country! NEVER do they describe, interview or quote the people who vote for the Chavez government, or those many grass roots volunteers who put the Chavez government in office, or any of the people benefiting from Venezuela's "New Deal."
If you want to truly discuss countries gone to wrack and ruin, start with this one--the USA. Or how about discussing Venezuela pre-Chavez, hm? Venezuelans have never had such a good government--that's why they keep voting for it! And, lucky for them--or rather, thanks to those who did the hard civic work--they have an election system that counts all the votes.
Yup, but that was, a) after the government had shot and killed hundreds of poor protestors, and b) he spent two years in prison for his part in it, and during his imprisonment became a huge popular hero and was subsequently elected president. You left out the context.
"...his first act was to try to eliminate term limits so he could stay in office forever..."
Huh? He was elected in 1998 (for a short term prior to the vote on the new constitution), then again in 2000, then won the USAID-funded recall election in 2004, then won the 2006 regular election. In 2007, the National Assembly put a package of 69 amendments to the constitution on the ballot for a vote of the people. One of those amendments was to rescind the two-term limit on the president. The voters voted it all down--probably because it was too complicated (too many different issues), and probably also because the rightwing Catholic prelates opposed the amendment giving equal rights to women. The package of amendments lost very narrowly, but the Chavez government accepted the results and moved on. They then put a single issue on the ballot--rescinding term limits on the president and on governors. The voters voted FOR it. (This settled the question of whether the term limit amendment caused the 69-amendment package to fail. It did not. The voters wanted to lift term limits.)
This, a) was not Chavez's "first act" as president; b) was not "Chavez's act" at all, but the act of Venezuelan voters, and c) by no means insures that Chavez "could stay in office forever"--he has to run again, and be judged by the voters again (just like our FDR who ran for and won four terms in office).
"...he established a private army loyal only to him."
The Venezuelan military is not "private." It's like any other army in a democratic country, loyal to the constitution and under the command of the elected president. A small number of military officers participated in the rightwing coup d'tat attempt in 2002. They were fired--as they well should have been.
Where on earth are you getting these ideas from?
"...he holds up Castro and Cuba as a model (to) emulate. He is not a supporter of democracy."
And George Bush Jr. held up crime boss Alvaro Uribe, 'president' of Colombia, as a model of freedom and awarded him the U.S. Medal of Freedom, evidently considering the murders of hundreds of trade unionists, teachers, community activists, peasants, journalists and others to be the ultimate in "freedom." Where is your condemnation of THAT?
There is no question that Chavez and many other Latin Americans admire Cuba. Does this make them non-democratic? What they mostly admire is the Cuban medical system and the Cuban educational system--both among the best in the world. Latin America is unanimous on recognizing Cuba's communist government as the legitimate government of Cuba. But none of these countries, including Venezuela, has abandoned its own democratic system. Chavez stands for election, in a fair and honest system; he obeys the constitution and the law; he has worked democratically through the National Assembly and other institutions to improve the lot of the poor in Venezuela, and to expand citizen participation and the inclusion of previously excluded groups. It is absurd and wrong to say that "he is not a supporter of democracy." He very much is.
Of your other rightwing 'talking points' (the blather about inflation, etc., are giveaways), the one about Greece is the most rightwing of all. The lesson of the "New Deal" is that government MUST spend "more than they have" in a situation of massive misrule by the rich, such as occurred in the Great Crash of '29, and today, by the Great Looting that has been inflicted on the U.S. and Europe by transglobal banksters, the very rich and war profiteers. Government MUST put money into the hands of the poor in these circumstances. The poor will re-start the economy because they have to spend their money--on food, on clothing, on housing, on transportation, on medicine, on education. It is absolutely wrong (self-defeating, stupid) to tighten money in this situation and to fire masses of government workers. Wrong and crazy.
In any case, Venezuela is not hard up. The Chavez government amassed huge cash reserves during their highest economic growth period (2003 to 2008), and used those reserves very wisely to cushion the Venezuelan people and their economy against the crimes of "Wall Street" and the Bush Junta. Venezuela rode out the initial shocks very well and very quickly recovered. Why? Because the government did NOT curtail government spending. Also, wages have kept pace with inflation and unemployment is very low. There are REASONS that the UN Economic Commission gave Venezuela such high marks. You are ignoring them all.
There are problems in Venezuela as there are in every country. You--like the corpo-fascist media and like the rightwing here and there--ONLY MENTION THE PROBLEMS. This is highly distorted. And I hope this is because you have been so very disinformed by the Corporate Media, which does the very same thing--headlines whatever problems they can point to, or invent, and NEVER MENTIONS WHY Venezuelans have voted for the Chavez government, over several elections, by big margins, in a fair and honest election system. NEVER do they mention the millions of people who now have educational opportunities, free medical care, jobs, good wages and a positive view of their lives and their country! NEVER do they describe, interview or quote the people who vote for the Chavez government, or those many grass roots volunteers who put the Chavez government in office, or any of the people benefiting from Venezuela's "New Deal."
If you want to truly discuss countries gone to wrack and ruin, start with this one--the USA. Or how about discussing Venezuela pre-Chavez, hm? Venezuelans have never had such a good government--that's why they keep voting for it! And, lucky for them--or rather, thanks to those who did the hard civic work--they have an election system that counts all the votes.
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So an appearance every two weeks, not bad for a guy who has been battling cancer.
Arctic Dave
May 2012
#33
Well, I guess when it's your turn for radiation therapy you will show us how much better you are.
Arctic Dave
May 2012
#67
Venezuelan friend says he now appears for about 20 min, formerly for 8 hr. or so
wordpix
May 2012
#146
In 3 months, "Venezuela State Funeral for Chavez said to be 'Psy-Op' by Some"
Nuclear Unicorn
May 2012
#5
I think when you squelch freedom of the press and political oppositon, that makes you a dictator.
TheWraith
May 2012
#16
You need to talk with DHS and the Pentagon about squelching press and opposition...
JackRiddler
May 2012
#111
Well, then, that would exclude Chavez, a democratically elected President in some of the cleanest
sabrina 1
May 2012
#129
"This story is supposedly from Dan Rather" - Good grief, but that's silly.
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#22
Hey, how do we know it's the REAL Dan Rather & not some cyborg facsimile manufactured by the...
Bad_Ronald
May 2012
#114
That's a good point...probably sent back in time a' la "The Terminator" from the future...
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#121
Not gonna lose much shut-eye over the passing of this tyrannical scumbag. His tiny fan club here
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#23
Aaaaaahhh...there, there. It's not so bad as all that. Come now, let us hum the old song together:
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#108
"For perspective this would be as if 1 million Americans were murdered in the past decade"
ChangoLoa
May 2012
#100
Yeah, just over 400k. The key is that the US is worst industrialized nation with murders.
joshcryer
May 2012
#141
Funny thing I've noticed about Discussion Boards: 99% of opinions offered mean absolutely nothing
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#110
Except no "bullshit" got refuted. An opinion was posted and another poster stated it meant
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#130
That's nice. A cup of coffee would be nicer though - think I'll go make some. n/t.
apocalypsehow
May 2012
#135
I wish I could read what Cubans were saying about this on Cuban chat forums or their blogs.
msanthrope
May 2012
#35
You are right!!! OMG!! I think I found the real one and it's even better! thank you! nt
msanthrope
May 2012
#43
There is an increasing number of Cuban bloggers. They think Chavez' free money ending...
joshcryer
May 2012
#49
a top-shelf tyrannical scumbag would've lined those fuckers up and had them publicly executed..
frylock
May 2012
#42
Except RCTV didn't host the coupsters but Venevisión did. Why wasn't their license revoked?
joshcryer
May 2012
#52
OK, so, why wasn't Venevisión's license not renewed for hosting the coupsters?
joshcryer
May 2012
#143
No, never, he just tolerates his red shirts and fans when they go break some journalists' jaws
ChangoLoa
May 2012
#99
Besides the highest murder rate in the region, food shortages and record inflation
hack89
May 2012
#50
Which is not what you stated. You said Venezuela had the highest murder rate in the region.
Comrade Grumpy
May 2012
#147
The point is that Venezuela has become a violent crime ridden society under Chavez
hack89
May 2012
#149
Same thing was said about the death of Saddam. How is the world a better place since he was killed
nanabugg
May 2012
#76
Which Iraqis did you ask? Most hate that their country is in shambles from US invasion. nt
nanabugg
May 2012
#89
Chavista's control all aspects of government. What "right wing group" are you thinking of?
joshcryer
May 2012
#66
Any report (Dan Rather or not) that equates Chavez with "dictator" is unreliable.
Peace Patriot
May 2012
#73
If "it is doubtful the dictator will live to see the results" was in quotes...
joshcryer
May 2012
#79
If he dies after being elected, Jaua would become president... for a couple of months
ChangoLoa
May 2012
#82
Venezuela controls its own resources, selling it to us doesn't mean they don't control it.
sabrina 1
May 2012
#150
We don't have food shortages, high inflation and record levels of violent crime
hack89
Jun 2012
#152