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In reply to the discussion: Giuliani: 'Collusion is not a crime' [View all]Gothmog
(145,046 posts)7. There is a great deal of good material on why collusion is illegal
President Obama's attorney has some good articles on this. Here is just one https://www.justsecurity.org/42387/collusion-russia-crime-part-iii-aiding-abetting/
It may be easier to appreciate the case to the contrarythat liability with the requisite intent could be imposed for these actionsby considering how the case could also be brought under ordinary aiding and abetting principles of the criminal law.
It is well understood that established aiding and abetting principles have wide, elastic application. The abettor is not required, of course, to have been in on it from the beginning. In Learned Hands classic formulation in United States v. Peoni, the law requires only that he in some sort associate himself with the venture, that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, that he seek by his action to make it succeed. The courts have defined in various terms this association, but what is required is some affirmative conduct designed to aid in the success of a venture with knowledge that [the]actions would assist the perpetrator, the principal of the crime. United States v. Cowart, 595 F.2d 1023, 1031(1979).
Note that the assistance constituting aiding and abetting does not have to be substantial. The accomplice liability provision of the federal campaign finance law, focused on substantial assistance, is, in that sense, stricter. ,So federal prosecutors proceeding on an aiding and abetting theory may have the latitude to reach a broader range of Trump campaign conduct in support of the Russian program.
It would not be the first time that Prosecutors would have enforced campaign finance law with an aiding and abetting charge. And they have evidence in the Trump/Russia case with which to work.
It is well understood that established aiding and abetting principles have wide, elastic application. The abettor is not required, of course, to have been in on it from the beginning. In Learned Hands classic formulation in United States v. Peoni, the law requires only that he in some sort associate himself with the venture, that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, that he seek by his action to make it succeed. The courts have defined in various terms this association, but what is required is some affirmative conduct designed to aid in the success of a venture with knowledge that [the]actions would assist the perpetrator, the principal of the crime. United States v. Cowart, 595 F.2d 1023, 1031(1979).
Note that the assistance constituting aiding and abetting does not have to be substantial. The accomplice liability provision of the federal campaign finance law, focused on substantial assistance, is, in that sense, stricter. ,So federal prosecutors proceeding on an aiding and abetting theory may have the latitude to reach a broader range of Trump campaign conduct in support of the Russian program.
It would not be the first time that Prosecutors would have enforced campaign finance law with an aiding and abetting charge. And they have evidence in the Trump/Russia case with which to work.
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Yup, and the conspiracy is pretty obvious when you use TV as the back channel.
lagomorph777
Jul 2018
#30
He was contemplating his obvious lack of a navel. The answer; he slithered out of the swamp.
olegramps
Jul 2018
#84
Cue wacky montage of all the President's goons searching the White House...
forgotmylogin
Aug 2018
#91
So the fact collusion is a crime in the context of aiding a foreign enemy is literally the
Fred Sanders
Jul 2018
#15
Yes, the collusion is not the crime, is it what the collusion is for. For instance I am colluding
Fred Sanders
Jul 2018
#39
If he gets Brett Kavanaugh on the bench its all moot.........................
turbinetree
Jul 2018
#14
Thank you for that. Then there is the whole using the criminal hacking goods to collude....oops,
Fred Sanders
Jul 2018
#41
My client did not hold up that bank, but even if he did, that's not a crime. NT
mahatmakanejeeves
Jul 2018
#10
Should be televised at least locally or on tape delay...on public interest grounds.
Fred Sanders
Jul 2018
#42
The Trump campaign was told on two different occasion that Russia wanted to interfere w/the ....
Botany
Jul 2018
#22
Yepper, spot on............... and they never made the contact...................to the FBI.........
turbinetree
Jul 2018
#68
It's true, there is no federal offense called "collusion" (except in antitrust law), but
The Velveteen Ocelot
Jul 2018
#17
What We Have to Keep in Mind Here Is Rudy Guilliani Is a "TV Lawyer" Now...
The_Counsel
Jul 2018
#23
Over a year ago Fox news claimed that "collusion" with a foreign government violated no law
elmac
Jul 2018
#29
Yes, using and aiding a foreign power to alter the outcome of a presidential election
Snellius
Jul 2018
#46
I believe the issue being investigated is whether the Trump team colluded with Russia...
honest.abe
Jul 2018
#38
But Rudy is trying to weasel out of it by claiming collusion isn't a crime.
The Velveteen Ocelot
Jul 2018
#44
He purposefully misused the word to avoid saying "colluding with Russians"
truthisfreedom
Jul 2018
#58
Hacking is the crime? Well then you also just admitted yourself and on behalf of your Drumpf client
miyazaki
Jul 2018
#66
Even if Russia did nothing illegal, if the did anything for him, it's a donation in kind, isn't it?
yurbud
Jul 2018
#86
I thought Prostitution is a crime. Ghouliani is Trump's Prostitute. Trump is Russia's prostitute.
Le Gaucher
Aug 2018
#100