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marble falls

(58,730 posts)
96. There's where you don't get it. When I was in Turkey I visited a Mosque. I asked about ...
Sat Aug 18, 2018, 03:38 PM
Aug 2018

the separation of men and women at worship. I was told that men and women were equal in Turkey and in front of Allah. I asked if that were so why was women's section behind the men in an inferior position. I was told that with Muslim worship and it bows, kneels, standing up getting back down there was too much temptation and distractions with women in front for all men to keep a clean mind and soul without temptations.

Turning this little thing into a serious affront to women - ALL women yet - trivializes the struggle women have made to still not have any sort of real equality.

Ask a single mother of three with a broken car, spotty child care, dead beat ex, crap job, customers and a boss with wandering hands at the Sports Bar how she would feel if because of religious reasons a man will absolutely not lay his hands on her or talk to her. I don't think she'll feel demeaned.

This is some trivial shit one on side of a balance with the lives of two ethical and moral people on the other. Give them their freaking citizenship for Pete's sake. Are they criminal? Do they pay taxes? Do legally care for themselves? Do they return the cart to the rack? Are they kind, do they rewind?

I am all for respecting different cultures. nycbos Aug 2018 #1
Their views are extremist, and they would never fit in with the rest of the population. colorado_ufo Aug 2018 #2
yep. barbtries Aug 2018 #27
Did they offer to wear latex gloves? Feminism and masculinity could be fatal to opposite sex. olegramps Aug 2018 #3
Then you aren't exactly all for it. What if it were phobic? marble falls Aug 2018 #39
Do you want to revoke MurrayDelph Aug 2018 #60
He can wear gloves. Doodley Aug 2018 #73
But he fails to shake hands of both men and women More_Cowbell Aug 2018 #97
that's a medical condition that applies to all people JI7 Aug 2018 #109
He TALKS to people without regard to gender. The people in the OP wouldn't do interviews pnwmom Aug 2018 #118
But for Orthodox Jews ...? Shoonra Aug 2018 #99
As a Jew I don't have respect for that ultra-orthox custom. nycbos Aug 2018 #100
I've had that happen to me, also. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #102
Except the rabbi's wife also leftynyc Aug 2018 #137
But isn't the reason the rabbi's wife won't shake PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #140
I think they're saying leftynyc Aug 2018 #142
If they were placing zero blame on women, PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #143
I think there may be unconscious, underlying hostility. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #112
I've known many Orthodox who will when they have to EllieBC Aug 2018 #115
So what's a germophobe to do? JenniferJuniper Aug 2018 #4
Suck it up or wear gloves? EX500rider Aug 2018 #6
They also struggled to simply SPEAK with the opposite sex. This had nothing to do with germs. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #8
"During the hearing, this couple displayed a general discriminatory behaviour" dalton99a Aug 2018 #14
So what? I don't talk to some people either. So is this avoidence refection on a scale ... marble falls Aug 2018 #42
It wasn't people in general -- it was ALL people of a DIFFERENT gender. nt pnwmom Aug 2018 #47
You'd be a surefire Olympian in the sport of mental gymnastics. John Fante Aug 2018 #48
Meh. But you still pass the citizenship test. And so do they. Its not as if they are criminals ... marble falls Aug 2018 #72
You make some good points. Doodley Aug 2018 #74
Thanks. I an all inclusive short of the criminal kind of guy. marble falls Aug 2018 #77
You may not like to talk to people socially but you must talk to the officials who are TeamPooka Aug 2018 #55
A.Hand.Shake. Are you an athiest? For purposes of full disclosure: I'm a Lutheran ... marble falls Aug 2018 #75
did you read the article or just the headline? They refused to speak to members of the opposite sex TeamPooka Aug 2018 #83
Again, so what? Tell me - do you think everyone should be speaking English in the USA? marble falls Aug 2018 #86
Exactly. They need to observe basic courtesy by shaking hands, even if that isn't part of Doodley Aug 2018 #76
Why? What "basic courtesy" would that be? If I had picked up a flu bug on my hand ... marble falls Aug 2018 #80
If they cannot give the same respect to women as they do to men, they do Doodley Aug 2018 #90
There's where you don't get it. When I was in Turkey I visited a Mosque. I asked about ... marble falls Aug 2018 #96
We are talking about shaking hands. When you enter somebody else"s house, you follow the rules of Doodley Aug 2018 #103
Oh puhleze. I do the hesatation move to attempt to discourage handshakes, and its my ... marble falls Aug 2018 #106
just wondering orleans Aug 2018 #132
Well I do like you sig line. pennylane100 Aug 2018 #59
Niether shake hands with members of the opposite sex, they do hold conversation ... marble falls Aug 2018 #85
What does my religion have to do with the price of eggs. pennylane100 Aug 2018 #107
if that is the way the couple is then fine orleans Aug 2018 #133
Do you base your decisions on the sex of the person? Adrahil Aug 2018 #146
wash their hands afterwards JI7 Aug 2018 #110
Sounds like an attempt to stack the deck against Muslim applicants. klook Aug 2018 #5
Sounds like an attempt to maintain a fully functional, egalitarian Swiss society. pnwmom Aug 2018 #10
And this is about priorities PatSeg Aug 2018 #17
it's definitely not limited to Muslim fundamentalism. barbtries Aug 2018 #30
I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood! at140 Aug 2018 #81
Well said padah513 Aug 2018 #91
+1 RelativelyJones Aug 2018 #111
It seems that adherents of the more Orthodox branches of Judaism musette_sf Aug 2018 #16
That may be true. And of fundies in the Mormon sect that stole Elizabeth Smart. pnwmom Aug 2018 #33
Like, in Germany, having to post signs telling men to NOT touch women in public pools 7962 Aug 2018 #37
All of the Orthodox I personally know EllieBC Aug 2018 #116
And they don't refuse to even speak with members of the opposite sex, do they? pnwmom Aug 2018 #117
lol I have Chassidim in my family. They speak EllieBC Aug 2018 #119
That's what I thought. I don't know any orthodox Jewish people here, pnwmom Aug 2018 #120
There's a way to maintain your cultural beliefs and not EllieBC Aug 2018 #121
Good. Stack the deck against anyone who doesnt went to live in a civilized society. 7962 Aug 2018 #35
Then why try to immigrant to a country like Switzerland in the first place? cstanleytech Aug 2018 #41
I am a white male from Europe who became a US permanent resident then a US citizen. If I Doodley Aug 2018 #79
I've shaken of the hands of muslim women... Adrahil Aug 2018 #147
I'm with the Swiss on this one .... CatMor Aug 2018 #7
Just for argument's sake... pangaia Aug 2018 #15
Citizenship is a birthright marylandblue Aug 2018 #21
Thanks. pnwmom said about the same as the 1st part of your answer... pangaia Aug 2018 #66
There are certain things we agree on almost across the board marylandblue Aug 2018 #78
I wish they couldn't but .... CatMor Aug 2018 #25
Because we don't deport people who were born here for any reasons. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #40
Thanks, that is about the simplest logical answer... pangaia Aug 2018 #64
Because they're already citizens... Johnyawl Aug 2018 #49
Your last sentence... GOOD point... pangaia Aug 2018 #67
to convert it qazplm135 Aug 2018 #126
Yes PatSeg Aug 2018 #19
+1 dalton99a Aug 2018 #29
Well, Switzerland is - and should be - free to establish its own criteria Glorfindel Aug 2018 #9
Perfectly reasonable move by Swiss officials. Devil Child Aug 2018 #11
Religious extremism, it seems like. Rather like Pence not dining with a woman except his wife uppityperson Aug 2018 #12
In Pence's case, pennylane100 Aug 2018 #58
What does the couple have to say JonLP24 Aug 2018 #13
They have nothing to say to people of the opposite sex. That's the problem. pnwmom Aug 2018 #18
The details are being discussed JonLP24 Aug 2018 #26
Actually I think they had to barbtries Aug 2018 #31
But they aren't named, so their privacy is not being invaded. And the other article pnwmom Aug 2018 #38
Isn't a handshake supposed to be out of respect for others? In which case, ... Snellius Aug 2018 #20
If that was Swiss custom, why would a conservative Muslim want to live there? nt marylandblue Aug 2018 #24
Love it or leave it? Are customs in a democratic country a duty of all by law? Like with the Taliban Snellius Aug 2018 #34
It wasn't just that. They refused to SPEAK to interviewers of the opposite sex. pnwmom Aug 2018 #43
And what if she were deaf and mute? What if the Taliban had cut off her hands for shaking with a man Snellius Aug 2018 #52
A deaf-mute person wouldn't be refusing to interact with people of the opposite gender pnwmom Aug 2018 #54
Yes, See that the problem is not about handshaking. Don't know why that was even headlined Snellius Aug 2018 #62
You are engaging in the fallacy of the excluded middle marylandblue Aug 2018 #45
but that is radical barbtries Aug 2018 #32
FWIW Dutch Woman Denied Swiss Passport Because She Was 'Annoying' dalton99a Aug 2018 #22
Pig races? jberryhill Aug 2018 #46
And there is Chufladefascht - the Cowpat Festival dalton99a Aug 2018 #50
Yeah... if they don't clean that up in the fall... jberryhill Aug 2018 #51
Good Owl Aug 2018 #23
Good. Zero tolerance for religious bullshit. nt Codeine Aug 2018 #28
Europe does not value "freedom of expression" Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #36
Actually, they do. They view people being willing to verbally express their thoughts pnwmom Aug 2018 #44
Actually they don't Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #53
A freedom of expression that is limited only to people of one's same gender pnwmom Aug 2018 #56
Uh... Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #57
Who are you kidding? There is a lack of freedom of expression in the states. Doodley Aug 2018 #87
I'm talking about negative rights here Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #94
They have more of a problem with the value of diversity Snellius Aug 2018 #114
There is that too Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #123
The U.S.: "We're so equal, we'll fight for your right not to treat women and men as equals -- pnwmom Aug 2018 #61
Excellent concise summary. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2018 #69
The US isn't equal at all. It's a pseudo-equal, politically correct state. Oneironaut Aug 2018 #93
Would they treat a Hasidic or orthodox Jewish couple the same way? ET Awful Aug 2018 #63
Based on my experience with the Swiss.. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2018 #70
Based on my, admittedly casual, reading marybourg Aug 2018 #71
If the person refused to speak to the Swiss interviewer of the opposite sex, yes. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #82
Just today, I saw a muslim woman LittleGirl Aug 2018 #65
You had the same visceral reaction I did when I first saw a woman dressed that way pnwmom Aug 2018 #84
Not shocking. I agree but find girls and young women who dress in the opposite extreme Doodley Aug 2018 #89
Looking like hookers? Please expound on your train of thought? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #130
Would you like to have a 14-year-old daughter who dresses like that? Doodley Aug 2018 #134
Of course I would GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #138
Are you saying if you had a 14-year-old girl in your house, you would like her to be scantily clad? Doodley Aug 2018 #144
Sure. Just spent a week at a beach house with dear friends GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #145
To be clear, are you saying you do like underage children to be scantily clad? Doodley Aug 2018 #148
Are you a professional Strawman builder? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #149
You first attacked me because I used the word "hooker" Doodley Aug 2018 #150
What is wrong with children in bikinis? Marrah_Goodman Aug 2018 #152
According to the person you are responding to they look like Hookers GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #156
By the way, please cut out the personal insults. Doodley Aug 2018 #135
You earned it. GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #139
he behaviors in question are personal choices. the reason for those choices is irrelevant nt msongs Aug 2018 #68
Are they really, though? Oneironaut Aug 2018 #92
my guess is that the EU wouldn't allow christx30 Aug 2018 #125
I wouldn't oppose that being the case in the US as well. David__77 Aug 2018 #88
good for Switzerland rollin74 Aug 2018 #95
What I find interesting is how the reporter's reporting Igel Aug 2018 #98
100% agree with Swiss governement AlexSFCA Aug 2018 #101
It's not that hard to pick a country to emigrate to nocoincidences Aug 2018 #104
When I lived in a strict Muslim country for over a decade JCMach1 Aug 2018 #105
Seriously. If you don't want to be Swiss? alphafemale Aug 2018 #127
how do they enforce fasting ? JI7 Aug 2018 #131
There are plenty of countries in the world where I do not qualify for citizenship mn9driver Aug 2018 #108
They were denied CITIZENSHIP, not just a residence visa. DFW Aug 2018 #113
+1 dalton99a Aug 2018 #141
But you are fine with a woman being stoned to death for showing her face? alphafemale Aug 2018 #122
Posting an article in DU, without comment, marybourg Aug 2018 #124
If you are talking to me, I am not fine with stoning...or burkas, or lots of.. EX500rider Aug 2018 #128
Good alphafemale Aug 2018 #129
Good Raine Aug 2018 #136
How dare you tell try to tell the citizens of a country their rules to become a citizen? alphafemale Aug 2018 #155
You are a agent of chaos WestIndianArchie Aug 2018 #151
Does that come a good pension plan or medical or dental? EX500rider Aug 2018 #153
I don't know you tell me? WestIndianArchie Aug 2018 #154
not sure about the reason antongorlin Aug 2018 #157
I agree. There's something wrong here. marble falls Aug 2018 #158
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