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BumRushDaShow

(128,897 posts)
18. I think everyone is now seeing that the "scientific community" is rarely "unanimous" about anything
Tue Sep 14, 2021, 06:49 AM
Sep 2021

This has been the case forever. You will always have disagreements over what any "facts" and "evidence" actually "mean".

In this case, you have experts who operate in different "lanes" (medical personnel vs epidemiologists vs virologists) and sometimes there will be a clash of opinions. And in the case of a respiratory virus that primarily spreads through airborne transmission, you can add in another group of experts who deal with airflow dynamics and particle movement.

The clashes a year ago regarding "droplets" vs "aerosolization" was a perfect example of scientists and medical personnel "assuming things" outside of their areas of expertise. And in a number of cases, some were loudly making bad "black or white conclusions" that had an impact on masking decisions that should have had enough "shades of gray" to allow time for other experts to have a chance to look at the data and provide some input.

Having listened to both CDC's & FDA's Committees when they streamed their meetings/discussions the past year, you will often find a couple out of the majority of participants, who will disagree, sometimes vehemently, but they usually have some reasoning behind "why". But in general, they have all been working in tandem.

In the case of a "booster" - one of things brought out in their last meeting was use of the term "booster". A number of members insisted that use of the term itself was a misnomer and believed that the way it is being described/formulated *should* have it considered to be a "3rd dose" (or a "3rd in a series" for the original "2-dose" regiments) vs a "booster dose". Since a large number of vaccines are initially used in children, many of the Committee physician members actually work in the pediatric field and have become accustomed to how vaccines are characterized for that demographic.

This is a "techie" issue that is sadly playing out in the lay community. It hearkens back to a similar "technical" dispute between the NWS, the media, and the lay public revolving around Hurricane Sandy and its "technical" (per past definitions and practice) "type change" from "Hurricane Sandy" to "Super Storm Sandy", with its "tropical" nature "technically" stripped at the latitude of landfall, thus "technically" no longer qualifying as a "hurricane" (which is a tropical system), but had transitioned into a "non-tropical cyclone". But the outrage was palatable because everything else about it was "hurricane like". The bitterness a decade later persists because of that as the terms have different meanings, particularly when it comes to insurance claims, among other things, and changes were made to try to rectify these "technicalities" due to public reaction.

I think there are a myriad of issues here that they have had to deal with that are literally unprecedented - the virus itself (and its mutations), the vaccines (and how novel they are - particularly the mRNA ones), the scope of the pandemic (something not seen since 1918), and the politicization of how to handle moving on and combating the the impact of infections.

Good thing I didn't get my booster Polybius Sep 2021 #1
They're Full Of Shit WHITT Sep 2021 #2
WHO takes a broader view. carpetbagger Sep 2021 #3
Agreed. And it's rare that breakthrough infections lead to... brush Sep 2021 #5
If my husband or I get sick...we won't be able to work for God knows how long. and we won't Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #61
One of my coworkers was out for 2 weeks JanMichael Sep 2021 #102
Exactly, and I think virus will be wasted trying to send abroad to areas where they can't Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #103
Except WHITT Sep 2021 #10
Yeah that is what I think...so it is not because we wouldn't benefit from a booster...maybe save Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #60
Anyone in the US who wants the vaccine can find it Miguelito Loveless Sep 2021 #24
+1 orangecrush Sep 2021 #59
Scientists vs message board nicknames cardonay Sep 2021 #70
Yup, they are SheltieLover Sep 2021 #71
Yep WHITT Sep 2021 #72
I'm pretty sure Joe will clear them out. SheltieLover Sep 2021 #74
Fuck WHO. roamer65 Sep 2021 #4
I don't think the OP opposition to boosters wnylib Sep 2021 #6
The fight comes Sgent Sep 2021 #14
EXACTLY! As always one size does not fit all. usaf-vet Sep 2021 #21
How is Israel an anomaly? wnylib Sep 2021 #25
Oh WHITT Sep 2021 #37
I do not agree with them. I believe everyone should get a booster. And I don't care if Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #66
Yeah, I'm disappointed I can't get a booster anytime soon, Steelrolled Sep 2021 #96
Ummm.... LudwigPastorius Sep 2021 #7
This doesn't refute the recommendation caraher Sep 2021 #9
Can't Ship mRNA Vaccines WHITT Sep 2021 #11
Even in developing countries Sgent Sep 2021 #15
"most of them can be stored at a few hospitals" BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #20
Yep WHITT Sep 2021 #39
I believe "Covax" is the name of an international organization BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #41
Yes WHITT Sep 2021 #43
The infection rate in my county is at 11%. wnylib Sep 2021 #28
The pandemic is a global problem caraher Sep 2021 #8
'Everyone Worldwide' WHITT Sep 2021 #12
This has to be taken into consideration DFW Sep 2021 #13
Exactly WHITT Sep 2021 #40
You really seem to think most of the world lives in rural isolation muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #47
Nobody WHITT Sep 2021 #49
Pfizer-BioNTech Pledges 2 Billion Doses to Poor Nations muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #50
Eh WHITT Sep 2021 #51
Yes, they are muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #52
I See You're Fond Of Non Sequiturs. WHITT Sep 2021 #56
I want to see Americans receive boosters now...ending this here would free up resources... Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #62
I know I read somewhere can't remember where) that the average age of Tomconroy Sep 2021 #16
Median age of breakthrough deaths in the UK is 84 muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #53
Link to the original Lancet article? It is an opinion - not a new research study... Sancho Sep 2021 #17
Apologies, but! Again I repeat myself. As always one size does not fit all. usaf-vet Sep 2021 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author usaf-vet Sep 2021 #23
Thank you for pointing out that wnylib Sep 2021 #29
I think everyone is now seeing that the "scientific community" is rarely "unanimous" about anything BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #18
Great analysis!! Eom Karma13612 Sep 2021 #67
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #78
That vote was done based on the "age" concerns for age 16 BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #80
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #82
Pfizer's request was for approval for 16 and older BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #84
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #85
That youngest demographic approved in the BLA is who they were (ie., age 16) BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #87
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #90
That word "false" BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #91
And here is the SECOND vote - UNANIMOUS for 65+ BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #81
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #86
Are you watching the discussion? BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #88
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #89
No you are watching BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #92
how do we identify genuine scientific disagreement from misinformation then? cadoman Sep 2021 #99
It's a problem BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #100
These people seem to be a lot more concerned with LisaL Sep 2021 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #79
In The Masque of the Red Death OneCrazyDiamond Sep 2021 #26
The vaccine is against the disease, Corgigal Sep 2021 #27
I'd modify that age to over 65. wnylib Sep 2021 #31
Could be. Corgigal Sep 2021 #32
I don't buy it. Farmer-Rick Sep 2021 #30
You are right, this doesn't represent a consensus in the medical community JohnSJ Sep 2021 #34
Exactly. LisaL Sep 2021 #35
Completely agree. I remember back when wnylib Sep 2021 #36
Regardless of these opinions, and that is what they are, there are plenty of scientists and JohnSJ Sep 2021 #33
I think WHO wants the rest of the world vaccinated Bayard Sep 2021 #38
But WHITT Sep 2021 #42
Pfizer claims they can ship to developing nations. OneCrazyDiamond Sep 2021 #44
Pfizer WHITT Sep 2021 #48
I don't know. OneCrazyDiamond Sep 2021 #55
My proposal for the time being Strelnikov_ Sep 2021 #54
I don't care what WHO wants personally. Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #83
I can't afford even a "mild" case of Delta Random Boomer Sep 2021 #45
If you're vaccinated, OneCrazyDiamond Sep 2021 #46
Why should we play the 'odds' when a booster is available. Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #64
Where have the breakthrough variants come from, and OneCrazyDiamond Sep 2021 #68
There are now two people at my husband's job who had the vaccine and are sick...they are Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #69
see, I think folk like you should be first Skittles Sep 2021 #58
I agree. But you need to understand that the Me First mentality for many including me Demsrule86 Sep 2021 #65
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #77
Unknowing mild Covid case spreading is OK. But severe Covid case catching is not.. Deb Sep 2021 #57
As discussed before, the Lancet article is an opinion, not new or original research... Sancho Sep 2021 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #76
The FDA wrote an article review?? Sancho Sep 2021 #93
I can't really blame people who have little confidence in the scientific establishment. Steelrolled Sep 2021 #75
As a sidenote about Adm. Hopper BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #94
That's a great story, thanks for sharing. Steelrolled Sep 2021 #95
When me and my sisters were kids BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #97
Fun memories. Steelrolled Sep 2021 #98
Yeah up until today when I was looking for some related info BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #101
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