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brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
35. Respectfully, I posit that anytime you look at economics ...
Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:11 PM
Jan 2013

It's going to be subjective in nature. Just because someone says a contraction is "due to cuts in military spending", doesn't make that the iron-clad "truth" and entirety of the situation. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but energy costs have a ripple effect throughout the economy that is difficult to detect and quantify due to it's breadth and scope.

I really think that economists in general live way too much in the world of dollars and cents, and don't look nearly closely enough at physics, chemistry, and science in general. The main problem here is that the net available energy to our society (and the world at large) is falling due to falling EROEI in our primary source of energy, i.e. petroleum. 50 years ago, it took energy of 1 barrel of oil for every 100 that were extracted. Now, that number is falling below 20 worldwide, and for some sources like oil from shale, the numbers are like 6-13, last I checked.

Abundances of net available energy is at the very core of all economic growth, and conversely, there is economic stagnation if the net availability of energy goes down. And unfortunately there's no realistic substitute for the abundance in NET energy available from fossil fuels. We can do all the things I mentioned in my post above, but it's not going to provide the abundances in net energy we'd need to continue to 'grow' our economy in the manner we've become accustomed to, and developed our expectations around.

Ergo, I believe that overall we are at the beginning of an inexorable world-wide contraction in 'growth'. There may be occasional quarters where things show an upturn here in the early days of the peak, as we're still in the 'bumpy plateau' phase of the curve.


But the era of unending economic growth, fueled by an abundance of cheap energy in the form of easily extracted fossil fuels, is coming to a close, and people are going to need to start adjusting their expectations accordingly.

Chemistry and physics trump 'economics'

"hurt by the biggest cut in defense spending in 40 years" Crowman1979 Jan 2013 #1
The national GDP shrank (did not grow). Most economists consider that a proxy coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #2
Also means a lot fewer highly (over) paid defense contractors making bank on egregious profit margin Roland99 Jan 2013 #3
+1 Crowman1979 Jan 2013 #4
Republican have this odd blind spot... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #10
Well it creates my job Shivering Jemmy Feb 2013 #51
Hey, Boehner and Ryan now support those cuts! TomCADem Jan 2013 #14
Great point! If one favors a decrease in defense spending, as most of us do, this is good news. If pampango Jan 2013 #15
No. A contraction of the economy is not "good news". Romulox Jan 2013 #19
If the non-defense segment of the economy expanded and the defense segment contracted, that is good pampango Jan 2013 #25
Net-net: US GDP contracted (shrank) by 0.1%. That is hardly coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #32
It meets my definition of 'good news', if the alternative is continuing high defense spending pampango Jan 2013 #34
But the shrinking is necessary if other areas of the economy are to grow, become JDPriestly Jan 2013 #38
I agree. The numbers don't tell the whole story. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #36
Obama just OKed $365 million in aid for Syria.... lib2DaBone Jan 2013 #5
There's a strong tendency to dismiss this as a one-off. Don't. reformist2 Jan 2013 #6
This is what happens when demagogues and charlatans control coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #7
The economy is still on life support, and any cuts in gov't spending are going to hurt. reformist2 Jan 2013 #9
I would be interested in knowing..... Swede Atlanta Jan 2013 #8
The sequester will drive the economy into the ditch Zorro Jan 2013 #11
All of us need to sacrifice MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #13
... L0oniX Jan 2013 #18
Graphic.... KoKo Jan 2013 #20
When Krugman, Stiglitz, and reality-based economists are derided by Democratic leadership... MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #12
Yeah, the economist in me takes issue with the term 'depression,' as that coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #24
14,000 posts! Congratulations! nt MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #27
econ 101.... madrchsod Jan 2013 #16
There is good reason to keep miltary spending high nolabels Jan 2013 #21
Actually, Macroeconomics 101 . . . which posits that cuts to coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #23
Agreed. All that money invested in all that production which either kills people including JDPriestly Jan 2013 #40
0.1 % ....OMG what will we do??? L0oniX Jan 2013 #17
Right now, the unemployment rate in California is about 10%. With coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #22
So, why aren't we building fast rail and installing solar panels on more houses in Southern JDPriestly Jan 2013 #41
My take, FWIW. maddogesq Jan 2013 #26
It may be a 'one off' but when combined with December's precipitous coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #28
Agreed that we can do better. maddogesq Jan 2013 #37
I strongly agree with this statement: JDPriestly Jan 2013 #42
The economy grew 1.2%. Dawson Leery Jan 2013 #29
Your headline is somewhat misleading (or has the potential to be), as U.S. GDP coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #48
I believe that the global historic peak in oil production is at the root of our economic woes ... brett_jv Jan 2013 #30
While I feel inclined to agree with you, I also must point out that the coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #31
Respectfully, I posit that anytime you look at economics ... brett_jv Jan 2013 #35
Agreed. I remember my dad pulling into the filling station and paying 25 cents a gallon. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #44
Agreed. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #43
Article also sites return of "payroll tax" LeftInTX Jan 2013 #33
The increased payroll tax will go directly into the Social Security Trust Fund and be loaned to the JDPriestly Jan 2013 #45
'Despite the overall contraction, elleng Jan 2013 #39
The slight increase in consumer spending suggests to me that the private sector is less JDPriestly Jan 2013 #46
You may be right. elleng Jan 2013 #47
Krugman: Most analysts are, rightly, shrugging off the surprise report of an actual decline in 4th pampango Feb 2013 #49
Thanks for posting. BLS just posted January 2013 payroll #s, and unemployment coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #50
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