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struggle4progress

(118,236 posts)

137. Enjoy mucking your way through the bogs and swamplands! And good luck having any real effect!

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 05:22 PM

Nov 2013

I suppose if you ever were to decide you wanted to do something with actual long-term prospects for successful change, you might then start factually analyzing actual structures of power and would then discover that the structures have very little to do with whether or not federal agencies send occasional letters to prevent unauthorized logo reproduction

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NSA, Homeland Security issue ‘cease and desist’ letters to novelty store owner [View all] Indi Guy Nov 2013 OP

A little touchy about the truth aren't they? hobbit709 Nov 2013 #1

Oh, FFS, NSA. Grow a pair, wouldja? Touchy much? CurtEastPoint Nov 2013 #2

I am sure he could make money by just using the slogans dixiegrrrrl Nov 2013 #3

If they violate the laws treestar Nov 2013 #4

Satire is protected speech. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #8

It was clear that you can't use a government agency seal treestar Nov 2013 #15

So far you're the only person who has brought up Snowden in this thread. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #18

That's just silly treestar Nov 2013 #20

We don't "all know" that. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #24

And I'm happy he poked the NSA in the eye christx30 Nov 2013 #27

Riiiiiiiight. eggplant Nov 2013 #44

You are entitled to your opinion but please do not Swede Atlanta Nov 2013 #105

+ another! n/t wildbilln864 Nov 2013 #109

+1 wtmusic Nov 2013 #68

SNL has used the Presidential Seal countless times in their skits. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #111

But the unauthorized use of official seals is not. It's like one of us using the alfredo Nov 2013 #19

That is OUR trademark. And I think his is a far better use of it than it's official one. n/t jtuck004 Nov 2013 #21

From US copyright law. alfredo Nov 2013 #23

Government of the people, by the people, etc. It's our US Government, too. LOL. jtuck004 Nov 2013 #30

Oh sure, they brought the ridicule on themselves, but they have the right to alfredo Nov 2013 #31

It's not theirs. It's ours. They work for us, and not as contractors either. And I get jtuck004 Nov 2013 #32

Right - the seals can't be trademarked. Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #53

But if the creator of the seal transferred the rights to homeland security, then alfredo Nov 2013 #56

Trademarks and commercial use are inextricably entwined. Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #59

Could the great seal in the logo be what is copyrighted? alfredo Nov 2013 #73

LOL! Your "ownership" of such a logo or seal is about 0.0000003%. Should you want to change struggle4progress Nov 2013 #92

Fucking Congress works for us. So does everyone else up there. And I don't give a rat's ass what jtuck004 Nov 2013 #96

Only when it leads to confusion about products and/or services... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #75

One cannot use the actual seal even in a parody cosmicone Nov 2013 #26

Maybe even change it to...."U.S. Department of Homeland Scrutiny" yourout Nov 2013 #52

A direct copy of the seal is not satire jberryhill Nov 2013 #36

This should be protected by the right "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Towlie Nov 2013 #84

laws can be unconstitutional Enrique Nov 2013 #10

It would make an interesting case treestar Nov 2013 #16

Actually, treestar, I don't think you're correct in this case ConservativeDemocrat Nov 2013 #46

Exactly right. (nt) reACTIONary Nov 2013 #48

Yeah, I would agree there is no fraud intent treestar Nov 2013 #54

Indeed, indeed. Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #55

Agree: Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #102

I agree: christx30 Nov 2013 #112

We're in agreement then...good that's agreeable. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #113

Nearly everything Hitler did was legal under German law. Psephos Nov 2013 #11

Then they can make a case, I have no problem with that treestar Nov 2013 #17

It falls under the Copyright laws. alfredo Nov 2013 #22

No, it is not a copyright issue jberryhill Nov 2013 #33

Links alfredo Nov 2013 #38

Trademarks and copyrights are two different things jberryhill Nov 2013 #42

The artwork in the trademark could be copyrighted by the author. alfredo Nov 2013 #43

Which would be outright stupid in the case of government agency seals jberryhill Nov 2013 #45

Who created the artwork in the HSA logo? Was it contracted or in house? alfredo Nov 2013 #47

Doesn't matter, it wouldn't be covered by copyright because its a product of the government... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #76

Then that copyright is transferred to the new owner. alfredo Nov 2013 #81

As far as I'm aware of, there is no copyright, works of the government are public domain... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #95

There had to be some legal basis for the cease and desist. It would have be stupid to act otherwise. alfredo Nov 2013 #99

Not really, never underestimate the irrationality of large organizations... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #100

Don't think their lawyers haven't had some input. alfredo Nov 2013 #101

Who said lawyers are smart? Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #103

And don't forget that the "complainants" in this case... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #104

Are they suing because of what was said, or the used of their logo? alfredo Nov 2013 #106

I guarantee you that if logo was used for T's that put the NSA in a positive light... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #110

Depending on the Agency, and the use it makes of the seal, there may be additional considerations struggle4progress Nov 2013 #86

That doesn't apply, and fair use would be the exception even if it did Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #62

So I could use the Presidential seal to sell condoms? alfredo Nov 2013 #64

Yes, if the seal is a government seal and if the condoms were clearly a work of satire or criticism Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #67

I still don't understand how they can say it is protected under copyright law and trademark law? alfredo Nov 2013 #82

Actually yes, and here's a link... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author RitchieRich Nov 2013 #79

There is no confusion about it being official. alfredo Nov 2013 #83

Some might see more of a gap, than you do, between (say) a federal agency restricting the use struggle4progress Nov 2013 #94

Some might even read the original post to which I responded... Psephos Nov 2013 #98

Oh, yah! That's exactly what happened in Germany! One day, they restricted the reproduction struggle4progress Nov 2013 #108

Time to change your name to struggle4comprehension. Psephos Nov 2013 #114

Indeed. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #115

(1) The statute protecting the NSA seal is more than 50 years; and (2) the NSA claims struggle4progress Nov 2013 #121

It's actually very common for Federal agencies to control use of their logos and insignia: struggle4progress Nov 2013 #116

My statement had nothing to do with regs. Let me ask you... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #117

Perhaps you should read more carefully: statutes also appear in my links struggle4progress Nov 2013 #118

I posted this... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #122

FBI to Wikipedia: Remove our seal (2010) struggle4progress Nov 2013 #123

That's all very interesting, and I'm glad to hear what the FBI (not mentioned in the OP) thinks, ... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #124

"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;...." nt Deep13 Nov 2013 #12

It wasn't what he said, it was the unauthorized use of copyrighted material. alfredo Nov 2013 #25

So, it was what he said (or wrote) then. nt Deep13 Nov 2013 #88

It's not the text, it is the use of the seal. alfredo Nov 2013 #89

So you can make fake currency? jberryhill Nov 2013 #34

Art. I, sec. 8, Congress specificially has the power to punish counterfeiting. Deep13 Nov 2013 #90

And the guy is, oddly enough, charged under a counterfeiting statute jberryhill Nov 2013 #91

They're not violating laws. They're making funny T-shirts. Arkana Nov 2013 #93

Why do you love the Republican dominated NSA so much? /nt Ash_F Nov 2013 #97

"The only part of the government that actually listens" Jack Rabbit Nov 2013 #5

Satire and parody only hurt when they reflect fundamental truths. . . Journeyman Nov 2013 #6

You can get the shirts at cafepress dballance Nov 2013 #7

Just got the Navy Blue long sleeve T denbot Nov 2013 #29

HA! I see a backfire Incitatus Nov 2013 #9

You are so right. dballance Nov 2013 #13

The "We can't confirm whether we exist or not, but stop the copyright infringement," arguement. marble falls Nov 2013 #14

Homeland Security Intellectual Property Policy. Link alfredo Nov 2013 #28

The government can claim that it is G_d and that it has trademarked the sunset Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #60

Has it been tested? alfredo Nov 2013 #61

I don't think so Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #66

Government seals? In Minnesota? Eleanors38 Nov 2013 #35

If this guy doesn't win in court I'll be shocked... oNobodyo Nov 2013 #37

Fascists don't like to be made fun of villager Nov 2013 #39

K&R DeSwiss Nov 2013 #40

Or not. Maybe you have to speak clearly in order to get what you want... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #49

By my wife's thinking this would fall under Free speech-- 1st Amendment issue. diabeticman Nov 2013 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author christx30 Nov 2013 #58

If people have the right to burn the flag, surely they have the right to parody the seals Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #50

Homeland Security, funny name... olddad56 Nov 2013 #51

As Robin Williams said, couldn't really name it Fatherland Security 47of74 Nov 2013 #63

re:. NSA, Homeland Security issue ‘cease and desist’ letters to novelty store owner allan01 Nov 2013 #57

Parodies are protected political speech. In other times, they would lose on this in court. 1monster Nov 2013 #65

Depends a bit on how obvious the parody is. wtmusic Nov 2013 #70

These don't sound like anything the NSA or HS would be printing on their Tees... 1monster Nov 2013 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author struggle4progress Nov 2013 #69

A Federal agency probably has the right to control use of its seal as part of its property struggle4progress Nov 2013 #71

Good point! Think of what the Mitt Romney's of the world would do with that seal! nt adirondacker Nov 2013 #80

It's very common for Federal agencies to control use of their logos and insignia: struggle4progress Nov 2013 #85

I'm one that realizes the importance of not plagiarizing agencies symbols. Do you recall the adirondacker Nov 2013 #87

I actually intended to post #85 in response to the OP but evidently goofed struggle4progress Nov 2013 #107

Does the Moon family still own the Washington Times? Is Judicial Watch still an ultra-conservative progree Nov 2013 #74

The Moonie Times missed the real story (heard it last summer). The news is the guy sued back... Pholus Nov 2013 #78

National Security Agency Act of 1959 (Public law 86-36) struggle4progress Nov 2013 #119

Fuck the National Security Agency Act of 1959. JackRiddler Nov 2013 #133

Don't smoosh everything together and swirl it about into an inedible mess struggle4progress Nov 2013 #134

Fuck the National Security Agency Act of 1959. JackRiddler Nov 2013 #136

Enjoy mucking your way through the bogs and swamplands! And good luck having any real effect! struggle4progress Nov 2013 #137

... the Zazzle team wasn't a fan, apparently, and they removed McCall's NSA-themed products struggle4progress Nov 2013 #120

Yeah, you've expressed that already... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #126

Let's review what we know: (1) the NSA does not appear to have contacted McCall directly; struggle4progress Nov 2013 #127

I didn't say that the NSA reprimanded the vendor. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #129

um ... I've already explained my opinion to you in great detail struggle4progress Nov 2013 #131

Aside from answering my question, you've expressed your opinion voluminously. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #135

Simple solution then. Incitatus Nov 2013 #128

that is absolutely right struggle4progress Nov 2013 #132

the store should thank them for the free advertising. yurbud Nov 2013 #130

Glad he tickled their funny bone n/t bobGandolf Nov 2013 #138

Now that's funny. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #139

No kidding! bobGandolf Nov 2013 #141

There's nothing worse than an asshole except an overly sensitive asshole Fearless Nov 2013 #140