Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
38. Okay then, but then Obama is also self-appointed.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:21 AM
Mar 2014

Insofar as they execute a foreign policy that is secret (not announced, not debated in public, therefore not democratic) and do so by covert means (a.k.a. hostile action, a.k.a. political war by whatever name, by definition illegal in the country in which it is done), they are self-appointed geostrategists, even if they were elected to office. Election is not a carte blanche to define "U.S. interests" in secret and devise a secret policy. No body of government in the U.S. had a public debate about spending taxpayer funds to support overthrowing the prior Ukrainian government (which is what Nuland is discussing in the videotape). It was not found by a majority of the parliament that this is the country's interest, or that hostile covert action should be taken. (Not that this make it right, either, but it would at least have the veneer of democracy and rule of law.) So it's rogue, a parastate action, even if the parastate includes the president. Even if it's a "good" idea in the first place, even if it actually is a "U.S. interest." Obviously that is also not so. It's an interest of a segment of the U.S. ruling class and otherwise a burden on Americans who get no benefits from the resulting natural resource and arms constracts and debt/tribute payments, and who later will be surprised and puzzled to discover that they have new enemies they never heard of. (Why, o why, do they hate us? It must be for our freedoms!)

Doesn't matter if more symbolic than not. Sanctions make the point, especially if it hits the West 2 Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2014 #1
We punish Russia by mostly hurting ourselves? another_liberal Mar 2014 #2
It's better to spend a few dollars than a few pints of blood. n/t Gore1FL Mar 2014 #10
I'll grant you that! another_liberal Mar 2014 #16
No Particular Reason For It To Receive Great Play, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #3
The input of one of the most respected Senior Statesmen of the World . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #5
and what would you suggest we do, ignore the situation? lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #7
What would I do? another_liberal Mar 2014 #11
I am not as convinced as you that the west overthrew Yanukovich, and it was not the Ukrainians lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #18
Yanukovytch is not Russia's puppet cosmicone Mar 2014 #24
You are right . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #27
Unless the right wing view becoming NATO's new eastern frontier, cprise Mar 2014 #32
Yeah, except . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #35
That is the thing about actual diplomatic negotiations . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #26
He Is Not 'One Of the Most Respected Senior Statesmen Of The World' Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #9
Your opinion only . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #17
Thank You For the Laugh, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #19
Don't have any source at all to back up those slanders? another_liberal Mar 2014 #28
Linky Linky, Sir, Does Not Work When Soeone Tells You Fire Is Hot The Magistrate Mar 2014 #31
FWIW, Schroder has extensive business connections with the Russian energy sector. Ex Lurker Mar 2014 #4
Perhaps so . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #6
"western economic exploitation of Ukraine? and don't you think Russia is doing exploration of lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #8
Are you saying the United States overthrew the Yanukovich Presidency? Gore1FL Mar 2014 #12
The State Department supported the overthrow, yes. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #15
Well played. go west young man Mar 2014 #22
Great post. Thank you! n/t cosmicone Mar 2014 #25
I'd take issue only with your description of Victoria Nuland arewenotdemo Mar 2014 #37
Okay then, but then Obama is also self-appointed. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #38
Absolutely no argument from me. arewenotdemo Mar 2014 #39
FWIW, Schmidt is not Schröder JackRiddler Mar 2014 #13
Schroder was also referenced in the article nt Ex Lurker Mar 2014 #14
Respected former European leaders are now go west young man Mar 2014 #23
Thanks for that pesky detail, Ex Lurker. Cha Mar 2014 #34
Well, he definitely has a point about this never being Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #20
We should be talking to the Russians not trying to tell them what they have to do. another_liberal Mar 2014 #30
Sanctions rickyhall Mar 2014 #21
Quite true . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #29
The old guys tell it like it is jakeXT Mar 2014 #33
Another one - Egon Bahr soundsgreat Mar 2014 #36
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Former German chancellor ...»Reply #38